Orange PAWG cap: R.I.P.

[Eclipse]

I can cite the recent conversation we had here regarding the members from PVAWG
in their full regalia including articles of clothing best suited for the desert as well
as somewhat..."extensive"...rigs.

That was just >here<, not to mention the somewhat "pointed comments on Facebook
and the news website(s) where their photos were featured.

Next, spend some time interacting with your local EMA, trying to get CAP
"invested in the SAR community" and here some of the comments made about
the way our members show up and dress. It's especially "enlightening" if you
attend meetings as a civilian and casually mention CAP.

[lordmonar]

I can cite the recent conversation we had here regarding the members from PAWG
in their full regalia including articles of clothing best suited for the desert as well
as somewhat..."extensive"...rigs.

That was just >here<, not to mention the somewhat "pointed comments on Facebook
and the news website(s) where their photos were featured.

Next, spend some time interacting with your local EMA, trying to get CAP
"invested in the SAR community" and here some of the comments made about
the way our members show up and dress. It's especially "enlightening" if you
attend meetings as a civilian and casually mention CAP.

So you got nothing....but hearsay and conjecture. 

[Eclipse]

Don't forget FSM loves you, too!

[Panache]

I can cite the recent conversation we had here regarding the members from PAWG
in their full regalia including articles of clothing best suited for the desert as well
as somewhat..."extensive"...rigs.

Point of order.  That wasn't PAWG.  That was VAWG.

[Eclipse]

For example, this would be a much better choice as prescribed outerwear for the Blue Field Uniform:


And solves the entire conversation in once garment.  It's functional, professional, and fits both the need and the aesthetics.

It has pockets for a radio, a place for a name tape of other identification, and the zip-out fleece liner could be worn as
the recently approved fleece.

This isn't cheap, but you get what you pay for.  Better this then an Airsoft rig or plate carrier, and it could be worn
when not on CAP duty as well.  In quantity purchases, or say using VG as a distributor, CAP would be able to get the price down.

[lordmonar]

I'm not wearing that in Nevada in the summer.  I would die!

I would also point out...that as soon as you put on a back pack....90% of your ANSI protection is lost....which was may point about the vest idea is just stupid.

[Eclipse]

I'm not wearing that in Nevada in the summer.  I would die!

Onviously - in those cases you wouldn't be wearing outerwear at all.

I would also point out...that as soon as you put on a back pack....90% of your ANSI protection is lost....which was may point about the vest idea is just stupid.

90%?  Arguable, but that's why your backpack or vest is also ANSI.

[PHall]

I'm not wearing that in Nevada in the summer.  I would die!

I would also point out...that as soon as you put on a back pack....90% of your ANSI protection is lost....which was may point about the vest idea is just stupid.

A reflective belt or two wrapped around that pack will do wonders for your visability.

[lordmonar]

I'm not wearing that in Nevada in the summer.  I would die!

I would also point out...that as soon as you put on a back pack....90% of your ANSI protection is lost....which was may point about the vest idea is just stupid.

A reflective belt or two wrapped around that pack will do wonders for your visability.

I would accept that....if the requirement was to "wear devices that make you visible during low light conditions"......but it is not.

And for the record....that is in fact what I do.  I got a vest draped over my pack.   But I was grousing that the intent of the reg and the application were not well thought out.

[Panzerbjorn]

The problem is stupid regs.

It is next to impossible to wear an ANSI compliant vest.....and not have gear over it.

Whether it TAKICOOL or just your school back pack.

The amount of safety added by the vest is not worth the heart ache we have here on CAPTALK arguing about how it should be worn.

I don't wear a vest.....yep you hear me say it...I don't wear a vest.

I got one.....but when I'm carrying my gear in the woods....I have a part of a vest Velcroed to my pack....but I'm not wearing a vest.

I carry a vest in my pack....for when I take off my pack and "need" it....but I don't wear my vest.

TA DA!

Your argument is invalid.

[Storm Chaser]

Unfortunately, not everyone can afford $200 on an ANSI II MOLLE vest with pouches.

[Eclipse]

Unfortunately, not everyone can afford $200 on an ANSI II MOLLE vest with pouches.

Agreed - doesn't need to be $200, and anyone who spent money at Blackhawk cannot make that argument.

$50-60ish all day long on eBay.  Plenty of other sources if you look.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121300773720?lpid=82

Peel off the "security" tabs and put CAP in their place.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Niton-Tactical-4-Pocket-Utility-Vest-In-Hi-Vis-Yellow-Black-and-Orange-/130901478402
UK sources have a lot more selection because their FDs and LEAs wear them, too.

[Panzerbjorn]

Unfortunately, not everyone can afford $200 on an ANSI II MOLLE vest with pouches.

So, basically, you're coming from the "There's a problem for every solution" school of thought.

Honestly, if it's important to you, you'll find a way to set the money aside for a reasonable solution.  If it's not important enough to scrape the pennies together, perhaps it's not important enough to gripe about the current SOP.

Incidentally, I could have very easily have equipped that vest with MOLLE pouches that I have lying around and that WG has in supply.  Even tan or OD Green pouches would be fine on that vest and placed in such a way so that the ANSI II rating isn't compromised.  But I chose to buy and attach orange pouches because of the coolness factor behind them.

There are always solutions if you let yourself think outside of the box on occasion.

[NIN]

And people wanted to know why I was not interested in getting back into ground team. This entire thread

[Panzerbjorn]

Because of a hat?

[NIN]

Because of a hat?

This entire thread.  4 pages of arguing about square inches of orange.

Whatever.

[Storm Chaser]

Unfortunately, not everyone can afford $200 on an ANSI II MOLLE vest with pouches.

So, basically, you're coming from the "There's a problem for every solution" school of thought.

Really? How so? My comment is very valid. There are many things in CAP that cost money and not everyone can afford them. Are we now restricting membership in CAP or participation in Emergency Services based on income?

Honestly, if it's important to you, you'll find a way to set the money aside for a reasonable solution.  If it's not important enough to scrape the pennies together, perhaps it's not important enough to gripe about the current SOP.

I spent over $250 on my hi-viz orange True North Aero-Vest with matching hi-viz accessories and always wear an ANSI II safety vest. I've spent a lot more on the rest of my ground team and aircrew gear, plus my IC kit. But not every CAP member can afford this type of gear or equipment. That's why it's [some of it is] not required.

Frankly, questioning whether a member thinks this is important or not, or even their commitment to CAP or ES based on what they can afford is uncalled for. All our members are important to the organization whether they can afford fancy gear or not.

[Eclipse]

I spent over $250 on my hi-viz orange True North Aero-Vest with matching hi-viz accessories and always wear an ANSI II safety vest.

What >you< spent is not relevent to what equipment should be required or what things actually cost.  If you use an iPad for
your flight bag, that's fine, but that doesn't mean that's what it costs for everyone else.

The Aero-vest is a nice product, but it's not the only tactical ANSI game in town, and is about 4-5 times what anyone would need to spend.
Past $50, you're making a choice.

This conversation also has to be had in the context that we hae members all over the place already spending more then the above
on inappropriate gear like plate carriers anyway.

To be a rated GTM does not require you to actually >own< anything, however if members are going to spend money,
CC's and staff should be advising them to spend it properly, and the regs should encourage that.

[Storm Chaser]

I spent over $250 on my hi-viz orange True North Aero-Vest with matching hi-viz accessories and always wear an ANSI II safety vest.

What >you< spent is not relevent to what equipment should be required or what things actually cost.  If you use an iPad for
your flight bag, that's fine, but that doesn't mean that's what it costs for everyone else.

Eclipse, you are out of line with your comment. If you read the whole thread you'll see that I'm responding to another comment, not complaining about what I paid or suggesting that others should buy or spend the same. Please read the whole thing, not just one sentence out of context.

The Aero-vest is a nice product, but it's not the only tactical ANSI game in town, and is about 4-5 times what anyone would need to spend.

Never suggested that everyone should get this or similar products. Again, you read and responded to a sentence out of context.

Past $50, you're making a choice.

Agree 100%.

This conversation also has to be had in the context that we hae members all over the place already spending more then the above
on inappropriate gear like plate carriers anyway.

No disagreement here either. If you're going to spend the money, buy something that's compliant and practical.

To be a rated GTM does not require you to actually >own< anything, however if members are going to spend money,
CC's and staff should be advising them to spend it properly, and the regs should encourage that.

Again, we're in agreement. That's exactly what I tell all the GTMs I train.

Eclipse, we both agree on this. 100%. That's why I don't understand why you would single out part of my response to another post that implied that members needed to spend lots of $$$ to be in compliance. They don't. And if someone chooses to do so, he/she should buy the right equipment/gear and not just something that looks "cool".

[Private Investigator]

For example, this would be a much better choice as prescribed outerwear for the Blue Field Uniform:


And solves the entire conversation in once garment.  It's functional, professional, and fits both the need and the aesthetics.

It has pockets for a radio, a place for a name tape of other identification, and the zip-out fleece liner could be worn as
the recently approved fleece.

This isn't cheap, but you get what you pay for.  Better this then an Airsoft rig or plate carrier, and it could be worn
when not on CAP duty as well.  In quantity purchases, or say using VG as a distributor, CAP would be able to get the price down.

Is it available in a "digital" pattern?