Incorporating Legal Officer into SAREX scenarios

[caplegalnc]

I am looking to see if anyone has experience incorporating Legal Officers into SAREX scenarios.  This is a staff area that doesn't seem to be incorporated into many training opportunities.

Ron Justice
caplegalnc

[RiverAux]

Thankfully.

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

As a Squadron Legal Officer and being an ES rated Observer/Scanner I find that my expertise as a lawyer is not needed nearly as much as my expertise as an Observer.   It doesnt hurt my feelings, its just a fact of life.   Any legal issues that might come up will be sorted out by Wing or National, not out in the field.

That being said if I was on a mission and I saw an issue that might require the presence of a legal officer, I would contact the Wing Legal Officer for instructions.

[RiverAux]

Okay, now that I've given my glib response to this question..... seriously does CAP have any training in its Legal program specific to issues that may arise during a mission?  If not, I don't see a need to have a generic lawyer on mission base staff and I think having the wing lawyer available by phone is adequate. 

[caplegalnc]

RiverAux,

One area in which legal assets could be used in is training other staff areas and teams in legal problems which could arise.  Examples are entry onto private property, discovery of criminal activity or actions upon involvement (hopefully never) in a motor vehicle accident in a corporate vehicle. 

Ron

[JohnKachenmeister]

There's not too many opportunities for legal officer involvement in SAREX's, but in the event we get a Homeland Defense mission, there might be.

[RiverAux]

I suspect that most legal issues involving missions will be handled by the AF or lawyers at NHQ rather than down at the local level.  Since the decision on mission committment is made at that level they're the ones that need the legal advice.  Can't see any more need for mission staff lawyer during homeland defense missions than in SAR.  And if a big question comes up, we'll probably be asking the AFRCC or NOC (as appropriate) what they want us to do, and they'll call their lawyers. 

I'm fairly confident that most mission legal issues are adequately addressed in our existing regulations and you don't need a lawyer around to explain them -- just follow them. 

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

RiverAux you obviously never watched "JAG".  "Harmon Rabb" could investigate a crime, go into combat on the ground or as a fighter pilot, and proscecute the bad guys in the court room.   Now thats what I call a lawyer.

[capchiro]

RiverAux, in your opinion, which rules, the published regs or the minutes of the National Board?  I am not picking on you, but value your opinion and your answer may lead into an interesting dialogue.

[RiverAux]

The regulations of course.  National Board minutes may occassionally have a bearing on some issues, but they are generally translated into official regulations or policy letters fairly soon at which point they basically don't mean anything anymore to us out in the field.  Never heard of any issue arising during a mission that had to be settled by referring to NB minutes and if an issue came up in which the NB modified an existing regulation or made a new one that had some bearing on the mission and hadn't been made into a policy letter or regulation yet, and the IC or Wing Commander couldn't figure it out themselves, they would call the NOC. 

[ZigZag911]

When I was group CC my legal officer had been an AF JAG on active duty, later a reservist for years & years....he is very involved in SAR, mainly GT as a GBD/GTL...very highly experienced & trained, serves as a mentor.trainer within CAP as well as in other volunteer search agencies....in the 10 plus years I've known him, not once has he suggested an ongoing ES role for a CAP legal officer.

[Pylon]

The legal issues brought up, such as entering private property, how to handle discovering criminal activity, dealing with troublesome civilians, etc. seem like issues that a legal officer could very well help with during classroom ES training.

There are certainly legal implications in all of CAP's ES work that members who participate in ES missions could probably benefit from learning about in more detail in their prepartory training.  In fact, maybe a small section of legal points of note should be emphasized in the GES training.

As for legal needs on an actual mission or during a SAREX, I would think that having the number of a CAP Legal Officer handy in case questions did arise, and knowing that such a resource is available to us, would suffice in pretty much any case.

[floridacyclist]

While having a Legal Officer on-hand for an emergency motion during a SAREX might seem a little....funny, I could definitely see some of their skillsets coming in handy as an LO or IO....

or even as a safety officer as they look for all the different reasons we might get sued in the event of an injury LOL

Seriously, think about the skillsets that may be required for a lawyer (attention to detail, ability to negotiate, ability to think outside the box..or so I would think these would apply) and think of how those particular skills can translate over to SAR.

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

As a Legal Officer I can tell you from personal experience a lot of an attorneys talents can be utilized in other areas.  I personally am the Squadron Commander and the Professional Development Officer.   During my time in CAP I have also been the Logistics Officer and the  Emergency Services Training Officer.   I have and am on the Finance Committee, The Awards Committee and the Promotion Committee.
I am a pilot although not yet Mission rated, an Observer, a Scanner, UDF, Flight Marshaller, also an LO and IO trainee.   Lawyers can wear many different hats.

[LittleIronPilot]

Not a slight to any lawyers here that are part of the CAP family...but I am just saddened that here, and now heavily in the combat arms, lawyers have become or are becoming so ingrained in the process.

Our lives should not have to be such that we need attorneys to check and make sure we are following the gazillions of inane "laws" out there.