Light Attack Fighters

[Wild Weasel]

Some think 21st century air power is closer to an F35 than a 182, but what's the future of USAF light attack fighters...single engine turboprops that a PIC will strap into not unlike their P-40 brothers in 1944.  Is there a place for light attack fighter strafing runs, recon/intel/surveillance flights, etc. in modern warfare, and if so is that a financially sound way for the USAF to help meet its mission within future budget constraints?

If the light attack fighter is a viable platform, could CAP's AE and CT missions, flight academies, and general capabilities have the potential for an increasingly important support mission?  Meaning, could a civilian USAF Auxiliary's air power be put to uses of vital importance to Big Blue not seen since WWII?

Just a wild random thought....thanks in advance for any feedback, sirs & maam's.

[davidsinn]

Some think 21st century air power is closer to an F35 than a 182, but what's the future of USAF light attack fighters...single engine turboprops that a PIC will strap into not unlike their P-40 brothers in 1944.  Is there a place for light attack fighter strafing runs, recon/intel/surveillance flights, etc. in modern warfare, and if so is that a financially sound way for the USAF to help meet its mission within future budget constraints?

If the light attack fighter is a viable platform, could CAP's AE and CT missions, flight academies, and general capabilities have the potential for an increasingly important support mission?  Meaning, could a civilian USAF Auxiliary's air power be put to uses of vital importance to Big Blue not seen since WWII?

Just a wild random thought....thanks in advance for any feedback, sirs & maam's.

The USAF is currently bidding an aircraft not unlike the role of the SANDIES in Vietnam. The favored yet denied aircraft was the AT-6B Texan II. The current winner is a Brazilian bird. The process is down in the mud for political reasons like the process the KC-X went through.

[Flying Pig]

The Embrarer won the contract valued at over $1billion.  Hawker Beechcraft lost.  Bull-honky if you ask me.  No different than the Army choosing the Eurocopter EC-145 over the MD902.  Maybe someday the government will remember we still make airplanes in this country.....for now.

But I dont see any of this having any impact on how the USAF uses CAP. 

[PHall]

This contract is not for aircraft for USAF use. It's for Iraqi and Afghan Air Forces.
Little stuff like that doesn't make the neighbors (i.e. Iran) unhappy. Unhappy neighbors in that part of the world tend to invade...

[davidsinn]

The Embrarer won the contract valued at over $1billion.  Hawker Beechcraft lost.  Bull-honky if you ask me. 

I can not understand how anyone could have made that decision either. The AT-6B has what, 90% commonality with the T-6A? Which is an aircraft already in the inventory. It would require almost zero conversion training for anybody that learned to fly on the T-6A. It has already been put into pre-production, so it's a proven platform.

This contract is not for aircraft for USAF use. It's for Iraqi and Afghan Air Forces.
Little stuff like that doesn't make the neighbors (i.e. Iran) unhappy. Unhappy neighbors in that part of the world tend to invade...

If it's not for the USAF then why are we involved at all? Last time I checked both of the countries have a government now.

[SAR-EMT1]

Part of the agreement we have with those governments to pull out US Forces was to equip the Arabs with several squadrons of various aircraft.  The C-130, UH-60 and the LAF mentioned above spring to mind. Thought had been given to reviving the F-5 production line but was voted down in favor of a newer platform.

If my memory is correct, the C-130's and the '60's were inherited from USAF and USA aviation units in country when they cycled back to the states. .

[Flying Pig]

The article I read.....if I can find it again, said that all the Hawkers would be phased out through attrition and as they needed replaced would be replaced by the Embrarer. 

Iraq and Afghanistan seem to have no issues flying our RC-12's OH-58s and Hueys....why the beef about the Hawker?

[Spaceman3750]

Part of the agreement we have with those governments to pull out US Forces was to equip the Arabs with several squadrons of various aircraft.  The C-130, UH-60 and the LAF mentioned above spring to mind. Thought had been given to reviving the F-5 production line but was voted down in favor of a newer platform.

Isn't equipping political factions in the 80s and 90s how we got into this mess in the first place? :angel:

[SAR-EMT1]

I know... I know... not my call. Would have been better to give them C-182's with hardpoints. 

[Flying Pig]

Part of the agreement we have with those governments to pull out US Forces was to equip the Arabs with several squadrons of various aircraft.  The C-130, UH-60 and the LAF mentioned above spring to mind. Thought had been given to reviving the F-5 production line but was voted down in favor of a newer platform.

Isn't equipping political factions in the 80s and 90s how we got into this mess in the first place? :angel:

Its a new world now........relaaaaaaaaax.  Theres now way it can backfire on us this time.

[davidsinn]

Part of the agreement we have with those governments to pull out US Forces was to equip the Arabs with several squadrons of various aircraft.

Using US tax dollars. US tax dollars should never be sent to a foreign company to supply a second foreign power. If US tax dollars are being spent to supply a foreign power they should be spent on US built equipment.

[GTCommando]

Part of the agreement we have with those governments to pull out US Forces was to equip the Arabs with several squadrons of various aircraft.  The C-130, UH-60 and the LAF mentioned above spring to mind. Thought had been given to reviving the F-5 production line but was voted down in favor of a newer platform.

Isn't equipping political factions in the 80s and 90s how we got into this mess in the first place? :angel:

Its a new world now........relaaaaaaaaax.  Theres now way it can backfire on us this time.

You're kidding, right?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/03/01/2-troops-killed-by-afghan-soldier-civilian/

Looks like 'Political Factions,' or whatever you call them, are still biting the hand that trained them, so to speak.

[Flying Pig]

You quoted 3 people? WHo are you talking to.  If you were referring to mine, I thought it was obvious I was joking.  Sorry if it wasnt clear.  I guess I need to use more  of these things

[lordmonar]

Some think 21st century air power is closer to an F35 than a 182, but what's the future of USAF light attack fighters...single engine turboprops that a PIC will strap into not unlike their P-40 brothers in 1944.  Is there a place for light attack fighter strafing runs, recon/intel/surveillance flights, etc. in modern warfare, and if so is that a financially sound way for the USAF to help meet its mission within future budget constraints?

If the light attack fighter is a viable platform, could CAP's AE and CT missions, flight academies, and general capabilities have the potential for an increasingly important support mission?  Meaning, could a civilian USAF Auxiliary's air power be put to uses of vital importance to Big Blue not seen since WWII?

Just a wild random thought....thanks in advance for any feedback, sirs & maam's.

Not in "modern" warfare.  What we are seeing now is not "modern" but we are fighting now is called "asymmetic warfare".  We build the F35 to fight our possible first world advasaries....but when you going after Somali Pirates or Afgan insurgents.....it is like bringing a sledge to build a house.
It can work...but it is not the right tool for the job.

The problem with the Light Strike Aircraft is that in an enviornment of budget crunches.....you have to make sacrafices.

Personally I think the LSA will not be funded or if it is...it will be a very limited number.

[coudano]

Interestingly just a single copy of F35 could buy a couple of SQUADRONS of light strike
it seems like we did the math on this in a different thread
in terms of dollars it's a good deal

the question is do we NEED that capability

[SAR-EMT1]

Part of the agreement we have with those governments to pull out US Forces was to equip the Arabs with several squadrons of various aircraft.

Using US tax dollars. US tax dollars should never be sent to a foreign company to supply a second foreign power. If US tax dollars are being spent to supply a foreign power they should be spent on US built equipment.

For the record I agree.

[davidsinn]

Part of the agreement we have with those governments to pull out US Forces was to equip the Arabs with several squadrons of various aircraft.

Using US tax dollars. US tax dollars should never be sent to a foreign company to supply a second foreign power. If US tax dollars are being spent to supply a foreign power they should be spent on US built equipment.

For the record I agree.

Two down, 302 million to go...It's gonna be a long night.

[bosshawk]

This thread is pretty much moot: the contract with Embraer has been cancelled.

Now we go back to a complete re-bid for the aircraft.  Apparently, the AF has egg on its face.

[davidsinn]

Apparently, the AF has egg on its face.

Again. You'd think they would have learned the last dozen times they bid something.

[Flying Pig]

This thread is pretty much moot: the contract with Embraer has been cancelled.

Now we go back to a complete re-bid for the aircraft.  Apparently, the AF has egg on its face.

Outstanding!  I hadnt heard that.  Im getting pretty tired of the US military buying foreign weapons!  Euro-crapters, Embrarers......

Now, I know everything in the Hawker probably says "Made in China".....but still!