Reserve/Patron members

[RiverAux]

Okay, this apparently is sort of old news as it was in the 2012 version of 39-2, but what do you guys think of changing patron membership to reserve/patron membership as apparently was done? 

As best I can tell it is actually sort of combining two different types of people that become patrons
1) Those who just wish to support CAP financially but never have and never intend to become active members
2) Those who were active members but couldn't or didn't want to keep up with the ongoing safety, etc. requirements but possibly may get back into active duty at some point.

The first type is obviously the traditional "patron" member, but the second is probably more what you might consider a "reserve" member.

I have actually suggested a "CAP Reserve" system in the past http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=3840.0 but I saw it more as folks that actually would actively participate in ES, but not many other aspects of CAP.  Obviously quite different from the "reserve" concept that we appear to be using now. 

So, do we like calling them "reserve/patron" or should it just revert to "patron" as was done in the past?

[a2capt]

They had a "CAP Reserve" type membership option previously, and just reading this, can you imagine how well that would work in this era?



No meetings, no uniforms, just come and fly for us?

Talk about sticking a rattler in the middle of the GOB wad.

First of all, the whole thing is volunteer, so you can't really have a reserve, as that means these people -will- act when called. We can't even get 100% of our active people at the same time, and with all this hype and pressure on currency for this, currency for that, review this video before 90 days is up, read that letter, etc. It would just never work.

Move along, move along. These are not the member categories you are looking for.

[LSThiker]

Interesting.  Was this real or just a gag from Iowa?  I wonder who would pick up in Iowa if you called that number?  If it was real, when was this?

[a2capt]

Scanned from Feb 1971 Flying Magazine. As for the Iowa number, because back in the day, you couldn't get a WATS line for both in and out of state, and whoever was answering the phone .. was there.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Heck, some Senior Squadrons I've been around don't like uniforms, so why would something like this be needed?

[Eclipse]

The membership category needs to be removed in favor of categories that are accurate.

The only people who are "members" are those who are Level-I complete and safety current.  Anything else is
someone kidding someone.

Patrons who are not Level-I'ed are not "members" in any way, shape or form.  They are "donors" and should be
characterized and treated as such.  Perhaps a category of "benefactor" would be appropriate, but why, on earth,
NHQ feels the need to send an ID card to people who are not, and have never been, members of CAP, is beyond me.
The answer, of course, is money, with some wings having 000 units as their largest charter, encompassing 1-200
or more patron members.

Patrons who are no longer active, for whatever reason, should be removed from the rolls and placed in "inactive" status in NHQ996,
or another similar charter (though even that is unnecessary).  Scan their records and park them in the corner of eServices.

Why there are 000 units, especially at the Region level is something else that flabbergasts me.  There should be a single
place-holder unit for anyone not assigned to a real charter in active status.

And AFAIC, "active" should at least require Safety Currency, and commander re-certification on a quarterly basis.

[Eclipse]

I wonder who would pick up in Iowa if you called that number?

As a2capt said, it was likley a WATS line accepted collect calls and forwarded them to local numbers.
The number itself appears in Google searches all over the place in books, magazines, and other publications of the era
in ads for related to skiing, boating, and flying, to name a few.

It is an active local number now and is being answered by a confused lady who apparently has received several
hangs-ups this evening.

If it was real, when was this?

At least one magazine is dated March 1971, which would jive with the typography above.

[LSThiker]

It is an active local number now and is being answered by a confused lady who apparently has received several
hangs-ups this evening.

Maybe if I find some time, I will just call and ask them how small-town Iowa is.  I find it interesting that the number is listed as Cedar Falls, IA.  From looking at Google, the town looks small.  I wonder why they chose that place and not Waterloo (which sits next to it and is much larger), Cedar Rapids, or Des Moines?  Maybe someone from Iowa can say.

[LATORRECA]

    Some of us like me are part of the patron squadron because Im deploying constantly and I'm not trying to be a burden to others. While I'm gone.  Or the next CAP unit close to us is 2 hours away.
   
    Just saying!
   

[Майор Хаткевич]

    Some of us like me are part of the patron squadron because Im deploying constantly and I'm not trying to be a burden to others. While I'm gone.  Or the next CAP unit close to us is 2 hours away.
   
    Just saying!
   

That's fine. But you're not a "member",at least not an "active" one, which is the point, as NHQ reports patrons as member numbers.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Back when I was in the BSA, if you were not near a troop, you could become a "Lone Scout."  I wonder if one could become a "Lone CAP member" instead of the "Patron" label.

[Eclipse]

Back when I was in the BSA, if you were not near a troop, you could become a "Lone Scout."  I wonder if one could become a "Lone CAP member" instead of the "Patron" label.

What would the point of that be?

[Shuman 14]

The membership category needs to be removed in favor of categories that are accurate.

The only people who are "members" are those who are Level-I complete and safety current.  Anything else is
someone kidding someone.

Patrons who are not Level-I'ed are not "members" in any way, shape or form.  They are "donors" and should be
characterized and treated as such.  Perhaps a category of "benefactor" would be appropriate, but why, on earth,
NHQ feels the need to send an ID card to people who are not, and have never been, members of CAP, is beyond me.
The answer, of course, is money, with some wings having 000 units as their largest charter, encompassing 1-200
or more patron members.

Patrons who are no longer active, for whatever reason, should be removed from the rolls and placed in "inactive" status in NHQ996,
or another similar charter (though even that is unnecessary).  Scan their records and park them in the corner of eServices.

Why there are 000 units, especially at the Region level is something else that flabbergasts me.  There should be a single
place-holder unit for anyone not assigned to a real charter in active status.

And AFAIC, "active" should at least require Safety Currency, and commander re-certification on a quarterly basis.

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

[rustyjeeper]

Back when I was in the BSA, if you were not near a troop, you could become a "Lone Scout."  I wonder if one could become a "Lone CAP member" instead of the "Patron" label.

What would the point of that be?

Tactikewl sounding 

kinda like the Army's  "
Army of one"

[Eclipse]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

[LATORRECA]

   
I guess some of us can be consider member while others are just are benefactor ( Eclipse). I see what you all saying they should never been consider members and count towards our numbers. I have scroll thought the roster from the unit and they are some people in there that have done nothing at all to at least meet the minimum requirements.
    I call NHQ and I told them about my situation that I been transfer to Chile but I didn't want my membership expired.  They propose to join in the patron squadron with the rest of the money donors. I was not looking to do that at all, but for the past years I have been in a unit in wish I could not participate on any activity since I was gone all the time. Once a year on when I could I show up to my unit and participated on one or two events trough the whole year. I still want to progress on my PD requirements but I don't know who
   NC wing doesn't have a unit to put the senior members in my situation. Eventually I don't want to be burden to others by not been current on my safety or any mandatory training. However, I do not want to get my membership expire and loose what I have work for the past 6 years. I already went trough that. Between 2002 to 2008 I lost all my records and past rank. Restarted from scratch.

   Eventually the only answer is to create a unit for member in which can't be active all the time, but still can participated on activities whenever they can and not count against no one when we can't be there to be current on things. It can be done. A lone wolf or army of one like someone said.

[JeffDG]

   
I guess some of us can be consider member while others are just are benefactor ( Eclipse). I see what you all saying they should never been consider members and count towards our numbers. I have scroll thought the roster from the unit and they are some people in there that have done nothing at all to at least meet the minimum requirements.
    I call NHQ and I told them about my situation that I been transfer to Chile but I didn't want my membership expired.  They propose to join in the patron squadron with the rest of the money donors. I was not looking to do that at all, but for the past years I have been in a unit in wish I could not participate on any activity since I was gone all the time. Once a year on when I could I show up to my unit and participated on one or two events trough the whole year. I still want to progress on my PD requirements but I don't know who
   NC wing doesn't have a unit to put the senior members in my situation. Eventually I don't want to be burden to others by not been current on my safety or any mandatory training. However, I do not want to get my membership expire and loose what I have work for the past 6 years. I already went trough that. Between 2002 to 2008 I lost all my records and past rank. Restarted from scratch.

   Eventually the only answer is to create a unit for member in which can't be active all the time, but still can participated on activities whenever they can and not count against no one when we can't be there to be current on things. It can be done. A lone wolf or army of one like someone said.

Actually, every wing has a -000 unit that doesn't count against safety currency and such.  Also, a Patron member can be a member of any unit...and Patrons are not counted against safety or mandatory training currency either.

[LATORRECA]

When I asked here on the forum the answer I got was to join the patron squadron. So, I did.  No regrets. I got a new set of order so as soon I can transfer, I go back to a regular unit.

[Shuman 14]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

Gee, I don't know...

It might... spur an interested Patron to learn more about CAP, which in turn might prompt them to become an active member.

It might... afford an active member, who because of "real life" issues, is forced to step back into a Patron status, an opportunity to continue their self-development education while they are dealing with those issues.

There's two reasons that jump right out at me.

[Storm Chaser]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

Eclipse is absolutely correct. "A reserve/patron member is a financial supporter..." (emphasis mine) -- CAPR 39-2, Para. 3-1b

Any patron wishing to complete Level 1 or participate in other training can easily become an "active" member. If their personal circumstances change, they can always become a patron again. There's no requirement for "active" members to attend a set number of meetings, so membership can accommodate different individuals and their particular circumstances.

[Eclipse]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

Gee, I don't know...

It might... spur an interested Patron to learn more about CAP, which in turn might prompt them to become an active member.

It might... afford an active member, who because of "real life" issues, is forced to step back into a Patron status, an opportunity to continue their self-development education while they are dealing with those issues.

There's two reasons that jump right out at me.

Self development education?

it might also give the impression they are actual "members".  The next thing you know they are
in a uniform, showing up to meetings uninvited, etc., etc.  BTDT.

If you want to join, find a unit and join, otherwise, lurk in the forums, check out all the curriculum you want,
but you're not an asset to the organization in any meaningful way.  The only people who are "assets"
are those who are attending meetings, participating in activities, working missions, providing some staff service or
another, or otherwise holding up a corner in a meaningful way.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Back when I was in the BSA, if you were not near a troop, you could become a "Lone Scout."  I wonder if one could become a "Lone CAP member" instead of the "Patron" label.

What would the point of that be?

Someone who is nowhere near a squadron of any kind, yet still wants to belong to CAP.  That's what the "Lone Scout" bit was all about.

[a2capt]

Find six more, and start a Flight.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Find six more, and start a Flight.

+100%

[pierson777]

Frankly, I would prefer it if Patron members were not in the local unit.  I have a handful that have been patrons for several years.  I've been in my current unit since 2000 and there are members that I've never met.  A couple of them I can't even contact.  Some let their membership expire, then they magically reappear on the roster a couple years later.  I think they're just calling Natl HQ with their membership payment.

Here's one that sort of bugs me.  A couple members who I've never met because they haven't been to a meeting in over a decade have received unit citation awards just because they're on the roster. 

I'm curious if there are any statistics on patron/reserve members compared to active members.  I'd like to know what our real "active" numbers are.

[MSG Mac]

The State of Maryland will be initiating a tax benefit for CAP members for Tax Year 2015. I expect patrons to be coming out of the woodwork when they hear about it.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Here's one that sort of bugs me.  A couple members who I've never met because they haven't been to a meeting in over a decade have received unit citation awards just because they're on the roster. 

The one that bugged me was in a flying club senior squadron.  Quite a few of their pilots signed their wives/girlfriends/SO's up so they could fly in CAP aircraft (with a baseball cap with a CAP patch qualifying as a "uniform"), but they never took part in squadron activities, never held positions in the unit, never did PD (of course, that applied to about 80% of the unit anyway).  I can only remember actually meeting a small minority of them, but it sure made the unit look good on paper.

[Eclipse]

Here's one that sort of bugs me.  A couple members who I've never met because they haven't been to a meeting in over a decade have received unit citation awards just because they're on the roster. 

Then the citation wasn't written properly, it shoudl have indicated either "active members" or had a list of specific names.

[SarDragon]

Here's one that sort of bugs me.  A couple members who I've never met because they haven't been to a meeting in over a decade have received unit citation awards just because they're on the roster. 

Then the citation wasn't written properly, it should have indicated either "active members" or had a list of specific names.

I have two UCAs for California Wing. The first is on a PA from NHQ, which just lists the wings getting the award. The second is a copy of the F120 for the award. Again, just the wing was mentioned.

In each case, I prepared a supplemental PA, listing the members of the squadron during the period of the award. The wing admin guru approved of it, liked the idea, and suggested that other wing units do the same thing, to eliminate eligibility confusion down the road.

[Grumpy]

Same thing here.  We just got the National Commander's Unit Citation Award.

[sarmed1]

I have run into a few units, that have members that act in that "reserve" capacity; specificaly because their current lives dont lend well to regular weekly participation. They dont attend regualr meetings, but maintain safety currency, and do PD as available.  The units ask them to participate in major events if they can; if not they know that they will at some point down the road.  Especially in cadet specific squadrons; where you dont need every person there to run a meeting every week.
Bottom line is that if you are geogrphically seperated or life issues seperate you for awhile, the unit can accomidate you if they want to. (I dont know if they woudl work it for a "new" member, but someone who has been there in the past is a different story)

If not that is one of the benefits of patron status, you dont loose any of your "records" they sort of just stop where you left off (obviously currency ends...) and you can pick back up afterwards. 

mk

[Grumpy]

"If not that is one of the benefits of patron status, you don't loose any of your "records" they sort of just stop where you left off (obviously currency ends...) and you can pick back up afterwards."

I have a couple members that went Patron back in 2002 with the idea of returning "sometime".  They still pay their dues and we never hear from them.  I keep their records in their own inactive portion of the filing cabinet.  Maybe we'll hear from them one of these days.

[Garibaldi]

OK, so...I asked my former CC to xfr me to the 000 unit. Is that the same? Who retains my file?

BTW...loose means not tight. Lose means to misplace.

[Eclipse]

Wing gets the file.

[a2capt]

Maybe we'll hear from them one of these days.

.. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting ..

[JeffDG]

it might also give the impression they are actual "members".  The next thing you know they are
in a uniform, showing up to meetings uninvited, etc., etc.  BTDT.

Did a Patron Member steal your lunch money when you were in 3rd grade or something?

Trying to understand why you hate them so much.

[Eclipse]

"Hate" is somewhat of a strong word.

They serve no purpose beyond a financial contribution, the majority of which goes to NHQ,
yet they are an administrative burden on unit CCs, and a constant source of static and background noise
in regards to properly reporting all kinds of information, not the least of which is the raw membership numbers.

You made the assertion a few response back that they aren't included in reporting for things like
safety currency, etc.   Are you sure about that?  Can you cite something to that effect?  Because
I'm not so sure of that, nor on other things like EOC, etc.

And regardless, they are "members" in any meaningful sense of the word, yet NHQ >does<
report them in total strength.

There should be three membership categories "active", "inactive" and "other", and the latter two
should be removed from all manpower reports, compliance percentages, etc., etc.

Not safety current?  You're inactive.  Not current for a quarter?  You're "other" and need a CC's
approval to become active again.

Next problem.

[LATORRECA]

"Hate" is somewhat of a strong word.

They serve no purpose beyond a financial contribution, the majority of which goes to NHQ,
yet they are an administrative burden on unit CCs, and a constant source of static and background noise
in regards to properly reporting all kinds of information, not the least of which is the raw membership numbers.

You made the assertion a few response back that they aren't included in reporting for things like
safety currency, etc.   Are you sure about that?  Can you cite something to that effect?  Because
I'm not so sure of that, nor on other things like EOC, etc.

And regardless, they are "members" in any meaningful sense of the word, yet NHQ >does<
report them in total strength.

There should be three membership categories "active", "inactive" and "other", and the latter two
should be removed from all manpower reports, compliance percentages, etc., etc.

Not safety current?  You're inactive.  Not current for a quarter?  You're "other" and need a CC's
approval to become active again.

Next problem.

And that's why they have to be on NHQ-996. Because their number won't affect you. I believe on patron member only be on The unit mention above, no other unite, because they will become a burden. Just let them be. On paper and on NHQ-996.

[Grumpy]

OK, so...I asked my former CC to xfr me to the 000 unit. Is that the same? Who retains my file?

BTW...loose means not tight. Lose means to misplace.

Oops ☺️

[SarDragon]

And - lefty -> loosy; righty -> tighty

[Brit_in_CAP]

And - lefty -> loosy; righty -> tighty

:clap: 

Not heard that since Trade Training!  That's 'Brit-RAF-speak' for A school..

[Eclipse]

And that's why they have to be on NHQ-996. Because their number won't affect you.

Actually, they still do.

My plan for the unit in my area (should I ever accept), was to transfer the patrons to 996, except NHQ wants no
part of retaining their records, so they told me that even when you transfers someone to 996, the last unit of
record has to retain their records.

That's almost worse then keeping them on the local books, because now you're tending records of a member that will
likely never come back.

further to this point, records for empty shirts that are incomplete are still fair game for SUI discrepancies like
incomplete 45s.  Easily fixed, but why should a CC even have to bother?

[PHall]

And - lefty -> loosy; righty -> tighty

:clap: 

Not heard that since Trade Training!  That's 'Brit-RAF-speak' for A school..

Or as the US Air Force calls it, Tech School.

[Shuman 14]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

Eclipse is absolutely correct. "A reserve/patron member is a financial supporter..." (emphasis mine) -- CAPR 39-2, Para. 3-1b

Any patron wishing to complete Level 1 or participate in other training can easily become an "active" member. If their personal circumstances change, they can always become a patron again. There's no requirement for "active" members to attend a set number of meetings, so membership can accommodate different individuals and their particular circumstances.

Well that's not what I was told. I was told that if I couldn't come to meeting I should just be patron and call it a day.

So, if I follow you, I can just go join a unit, pay more money, get my Military rank/grade appointment, complete all the online courses I want, and still really do "nothing" just like a Patron Member?

[Shuman 14]

showing up to meetings uninvited

Pardon me, but isn't that how new members kinda show up... at a scheduled meeting... uninvited? 

[Shuman 14]

The State of Maryland will be initiating a tax benefit for CAP members for Tax Year 2015. I expect patrons to be coming out of the woodwork when they hear about it.

So the added funds to CAP's treasury is not welcomed? 

[Eclipse]

showing up to meetings uninvited

Pardon me, but isn't that how new members kinda show up... at a scheduled meeting... uninvited? 

No - new member recruits are "invited", either specifically or by implication, for a limited period, generally 3 meetings.
After that, join or don't, but you can't come to meetings.  In fact, by regulation, Patron members have less rights
to attend meetings then recruits, since they have already indicated their level of intended involvement (i.e. zero),
they are specifically restricted from any participation unless specifically invited.

The State of Maryland will be initiating a tax benefit for CAP members for Tax Year 2015. I expect patrons to be coming out of the woodwork when they hear about it.

So the added funds to CAP's treasury is not welcomed?

I guess "integrity" means nothing if there's money involved?

[ColonelJack]

I guess "integrity" means nothing if there's money involved?

In that statement, Bob, there is more truth in the world of today than you probably realize ... because the cynic in me sees that everywhere.

Jack

[Storm Chaser]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

Eclipse is absolutely correct. "A reserve/patron member is a financial supporter..." (emphasis mine) -- CAPR 39-2, Para. 3-1b

Any patron wishing to complete Level 1 or participate in other training can easily become an "active" member. If their personal circumstances change, they can always become a patron again. There's no requirement for "active" members to attend a set number of meetings, so membership can accommodate different individuals and their particular circumstances.

Well that's not what I was told. I was told that if I couldn't come to meeting I should just be patron and call it a day.

So, if I follow you, I can just go join a unit, pay more money, get my Military rank/grade appointment, complete all the online courses I want, and still really do "nothing" just like a Patron Member?

Major, you know very well that's not what I said. First, CAP appointments to military grades are neither required nor automatic. If you're not actively contributing to your unit, your unit commander doesn't have to approve your grade. Second, while you may be able to complete online courses, the only way to progress in CAP's PD and Ops Quals is to actively participate in meetings and activities.

Finally, there's a difference between someone who joins with the intention of serving and participating in CAP, but then is unable to due to their personal circumstances changing, and someone who joins to take advantage of certain opportunities, but never had the intention of contributing. We don't really need the latter.

By the way, attending meetings, while important and sometimes necessary, is not the only way to contribute to the organization.

[JeffDG]

showing up to meetings uninvited

Pardon me, but isn't that how new members kinda show up... at a scheduled meeting... uninvited?  :-

No - new member recruits are "invited", either specifically or by implication, for a limited period, generally 3 meetings.
After that, join or don't, but you can't come to meetings.  In fact, by regulation, Patron members have less rights
to attend meetings then recruits, since they have already indicated their level of intended involvement (i.e. zero),
they are specifically restricted from any participation unless specifically invited.

The State of Maryland will be initiating a tax benefit for CAP members for Tax Year 2015. I expect patrons to be coming out of the woodwork when they hear about it.

So the added funds to CAP's treasury is not welcomed?

I guess "integrity" means nothing if there's money involved?

I'm so sorry.  I see that a Patron traumatized you in some deep way. 

[Eclipse]

^ Your support is appreciated.

[Shuman 14]

showing up to meetings uninvited

Pardon me, but isn't that how new members kinda show up... at a scheduled meeting... uninvited? 

No - new member recruits are "invited", either specifically or by implication, for a limited period, generally 3 meetings.
After that, join or don't, but you can't come to meetings.  In fact, by regulation, Patron members have less rights
to attend meetings then recruits, since they have already indicated their level of intended involvement (i.e. zero),
they are specifically restricted from any participation unless specifically invited.

The State of Maryland will be initiating a tax benefit for CAP members for Tax Year 2015. I expect patrons to be coming out of the woodwork when they hear about it.

So the added funds to CAP's treasury is not welcomed?

I guess "integrity" means nothing if there's money involved?

I don't see how donating money to CAP to get a tax deduction is an integrity violation? It's legal, not immoral or unethical... so what's the issue?

Say thank you and put the funds to good use.

[Shuman 14]

Speaking as a Patron member, I'd happily complete Level 1 and the safety training, both of which can be conducted in an online/distance learning status, but I can't because I am prevented from doing them because I am a Patron Member.

Why would someone who is only a financial donor complete Level 1 and Safety currency?

That is for actual members only, not donors.

Eclipse is absolutely correct. "A reserve/patron member is a financial supporter..." (emphasis mine) -- CAPR 39-2, Para. 3-1b

Any patron wishing to complete Level 1 or participate in other training can easily become an "active" member. If their personal circumstances change, they can always become a patron again. There's no requirement for "active" members to attend a set number of meetings, so membership can accommodate different individuals and their particular circumstances.

Well that's not what I was told. I was told that if I couldn't come to meeting I should just be patron and call it a day.

So, if I follow you, I can just go join a unit, pay more money, get my Military rank/grade appointment, complete all the online courses I want, and still really do "nothing" just like a Patron Member?

Major, you know very well that's not what I said. First, CAP appointments to military grades are neither required nor automatic. If you're not actively contributing to your unit, your unit commander doesn't have to approve your grade. Second, while you may be able to complete online courses, the only way to progress in CAP's PD and Ops Quals is to actively participate in meetings and activities.

Finally, there's a difference between someone who joins with the intention of serving and participating in CAP, but then is unable to due to their personal circumstances changing, and someone who joins to take advantage of certain opportunities, but never had the intention of contributing. We don't really need the latter.

By the way, attending meetings, while important and sometimes necessary, is not the only way to contribute to the organization.

I know that Sir, I was being mostly facetious in my reply.

[Shuman 14]

showing up to meetings uninvited

Pardon me, but isn't that how new members kinda show up... at a scheduled meeting... uninvited?  :-

No - new member recruits are "invited", either specifically or by implication, for a limited period, generally 3 meetings.
After that, join or don't, but you can't come to meetings.  In fact, by regulation, Patron members have less rights
to attend meetings then recruits, since they have already indicated their level of intended involvement (i.e. zero),
they are specifically restricted from any participation unless specifically invited.

The State of Maryland will be initiating a tax benefit for CAP members for Tax Year 2015. I expect patrons to be coming out of the woodwork when they hear about it.

So the added funds to CAP's treasury is not welcomed?

I guess "integrity" means nothing if there's money involved?

I'm so sorry.  I see that a Patron traumatized you in some deep way.

Ecilpse, do you need a hug Sir?  (Arms held WIDE open with a cheese eat'n grin on my face.  )

[LATORRECA]

   Every body is entitle to their opinions. Just drop it. We go it some of you are upset about some members or finacial donators. Who cares. Just drop it, because you start looking like an a**hole.  Sorry!

[sarmed1]

I think there were some valid points in there.  Specifically the reporting of "membership" numbers.  When you try to sell the organization as a resource, if you are counting and reporting "financial donors" as part of that pool of manpower, you are mispresenting things a bit.

There are legit resons for active members to go "reserve" and honestly, those folks should be held seperate from the "financial donors".    I did like the idea of transfering them out of the squadron level, to at least a wing squadron.  Take a play out of the USAF book, personnel who are unable to remain participating due to what ever reason, are transfered or can choose transfer to the IRR.  It acts a place holder, and does allow some limited participation as needed; keeping them a viable resource in the event of "the big one" also there are some limeted participating IRR catagories.

I was patron for a numebr of years due to my status as CAP-RAP as an additional duty assignment in the USAFR

mk

[LATORRECA]

I think there were some valid points in there.  Specifically the reporting of "membership" numbers.  When you try to sell the organization as a resource, if you are counting and reporting "financial donors" as part of that pool of manpower, you are mispresenting things a bit.

There are legit resons for active members to go "reserve" and honestly, those folks should be held seperate from the "financial donors".    I did like the idea of transfering them out of the squadron level, to at least a wing squadron.  Take a play out of the USAF book, personnel who are unable to remain participating due to what ever reason, are transfered or can choose transfer to the IRR.  It acts a place holder, and does allow some limited participation as needed; keeping them a viable resource in the event of "the big one" also there are some limeted participating IRR catagories.

I was patron for a numebr of years due to my status as CAP-RAP as an additional duty assignment in the USAFR

mk

Agree :clap:
That's my case