Question about ranger tab thing that goes over name tape (do not drail!)

[Eclipse]

^ neither of the above is supposed to be a question rank and file members should be asking.  We should simply be doing what NHQ says to do.

Our split personality, hyper-exposure and speed of the internet, combined with the idea that everyone should have an opinion is what causes the confusion.

[RiverAux]

From what I can tell the AF doesn't review it until CAP officially asks to change something, which means after it gets approved by the relevant national leadership.  They do give everything an initial review before the meetings (and you can see the CAP-USAF comments about them), but it would be a monster waste of AF time to really review every crackpot uniform idea that gets floated in CAP. 

That being said, I think it would make a lot of sense for the results of AF reviews of CAP-approved suggestions be noted in the national minutes.  This would let everyone know that the idea is dead.  Like with this situation we're apparently just sort of hanging. 

[Spike]

Real easy folks.  Until something makes its way onto a Change Letter, or into a Manual, Regulation, Pamphlet or instruction it is not allowed.

Some people here are putting way to much time into this argument.

Ranger Tabs are not allowed on AF style........PERIOD.  Until we see the letter/ memo/ 39-1 telling us differently, those that choose to do it are in violation. 

Just because one Wing chooses to violate the rules does not make it right. 

[FW]

"The Process"
1.  get's put in NB agenda for winter meeting
2.  get's approved for wear on uniform
3.  goes to Air Force for approval to wear on AF style uniform
4.  eventually gets to go in ICL or added to reg/manual.

Step 4 is in the process however, there is a black hole somewhere in the universe which seems to attract ICLs and uniform additions to CAPM 39-1.  However, except for uniform changes requiring Air Force approval, the NB approval makes the change official.  The ICL is the mech. for informing the membership of the change until the manual is amended.

Why the black hole is in existence is anyone's guess.  I think it has to do with the law of entropy.   

[RiverAux]

I really don't see what problem is.  If you gave me an editable version of 39-1 and the list of ALL the approved changes on the web page right now, I could insert that language in the document in a couple of hours.  Allow a few weeks for review and BAM.  Its done. 

Now, if you want a total rewrite, thats a different story.  But essentially it is not really any work to keep the regulations up to date and there is just no excuse for not getting them updated in the specified time after an ICL is made.

Heck, the PA shop manages to post updates in two different sections of their part of the web site every single day.  I don't know why the folks responsible for the regulation can't get their act together.

[Nathan]

^ neither of the above is supposed to be a question rank and file members should be asking.  We should simply be doing what NHQ says to do.

Our split personality, hyper-exposure and speed of the internet, combined with the idea that everyone should have an opinion is what causes the confusion.

First off, without our hyper-exposure, I doubt anyone would have easy access to the NB meeting minutes in the first place. The only reason this is being debated is BECAUSE we can see the minutes as soon as they are published, and the technology then does present itself as relevant. If the technology were not an issue, then we would simply be waiting around until we get mailed a change letter.

Second, it is absolutely our business as rank-and-file members to ensure that we are following the rules as best as we can. If we're going to play the "follow the regulation to the letter" game, then we are not authorized to wear what is, well, not authorized. If the USAF approves AFTER the NB (which seems to be the consensus, as far as I can tell), and we as knowledgeable members know this, then it is not only the letter of the regulation, but the SPIRIT of the regulation that we wait for complete approval from all necessary parties before we assume that anything is approved.

I'm not going to be taking three-day weekends just because my college professor tells me that HE says it's okay. I'm still going to wait to hear from the dean.

[Mendoza]

i find it very wrong that i am not allowed to wear my ranger tabs, (which i still do and will continue to do). Honestly, what is the big issue, its not like u see them ALL THE TIME, cuz u just don't. If its an Air Force issue then i find that very hard to believe, cuz ive gotten nothing but positive feedback from those in the air force that see them on my uniform...

[SJFedor]

i find it very wrong that i am not allowed to wear my ranger tabs, (which i still do and will continue to do). Honestly, what is the big issue, its not like u see them ALL THE TIME, cuz u just don't. If its an Air Force issue then i find that very hard to believe, cuz ive gotten nothing but positive feedback from those in the air force that see them on my uniform...

You find it wrong that you can't wear an unauthorized uniform item because it's unauthorized?

Growing up in a place where I did see them all the time (and wore one myself), it wasn't too big of a deal. Everyone thought they were authorized and no one heard any different. Things have changed now, though. We know better.

And honestly, when you break it down, all that your prized Ranger tab really is, is a merit badge. Like everything else on the uniforms, you checked the boxes off on the form, and they handed you a piece of cloth. Perhaps later in life, when you have more life experience, you'll understand that more. It's more then just wearing it "cuz you earned it", but wearing it correctly and following the rules for wear, which right now, are to not wear it.

[SilverEagle2]

^^^Please, for the sake of those that want them to be completely approved for wear, remove them until they are.

It is your type of behavior/attitude that creates the feelings/mentality that we experience. I am a proud Hawk Grad myself, R-ADV. However, I will not wear the tabs on my BDU's until I have authorization to do so.

cuz ive gotten nothing but positive feedback from those in the air force that see them on my uniform...

I have received more positive feedback for abiding by the regs on this one. They see my SAR patch on my Left Pocket and ask where my tab is. I tell them that I will not wear until it is authorized but will happily wear it when it is. I have changed many a mind here as to the feelings they had toward Hawk Mountain and grads.

Doing the opposite only incites people to believe the unfavorable rumors/opinions they have heard about Hawk and the notorious "Rangers."

So please, from one ranger to another, remove your tab until the AF says OK.

[swamprat86]

I also find it funny that you won't list your ribbons or "fake" ES quals because you don't feel the need to brag.  Then why do you wear the tab on your uniform or better, why do you feel you need to wear it regardless of whether you can or not?

[BrandonKea]

I also find it funny that you won't list your ribbons or "fake" ES quals because you don't feel the need to brag.  Then why do you wear the tab on your uniform or better, why do you feel you need to wear it regardless of whether you can or not?

Fake? I think the Hawk Mountain grads are very qualified...

Nvm, I'm slow today, I see his sigline...

[Mendoza]

i dont wear it to brag, if u see me in person ull know that i never brag about what ive earned. All that im saying is that ive never heard it said that u cannot wear something if its not in the regs, i understand if its something ridiculous, but its a minor tab that we have been wearing for a very long time. Belive me the last thing i want is to have more controversy over the tabs but it seems like there targeted much more than other unauthorized pieces of someones uniform...

[jimmydeanno]

Belive me the last thing i want is to have more controversy over the tabs but it seems like there targeted much more than other unauthorized pieces of someones uniform...

Like...?

[BrandonKea]

i dont wear it to brag, if u see me in person ull know that i never brag about what ive earned. All that im saying is that ive never heard it said that u cannot wear something if its not in the regs, i understand if its something ridiculous, but its a minor tab that we have been wearing for a very long time. Belive me the last thing i want is to have more controversy over the tabs but it seems like there targeted much more than other unauthorized pieces of someones uniform...

This argument has been stated over and over again. The regulation says what you CAN wear. If it ain't in the book, you can't wear it. And when you wear it anyways, it does a few thigs.

A. It sets a bad example for other members who see you "bucking the system."
B. It makes it a harder sell when it comes time for the Air Force to authorize it.
C. When you say "I don't care, I'll do what I want," you're insubordiante. Endo Facto

[Mendoza]

Like wen ppl POSE like the were in the "AIRBORNE" or have other special qualifications on their bdu's

[jimmydeanno]

...or have other special qualifications on their bdu's

Many of which actually are allowed, unlike your Ranger badge.

[Spike]

Like wen ppl POSE like the were in the "AIRBORNE" or have other special qualifications on their bdu's

That's called a felony where I come from.  Minimum sentence is 6 months and a $5,000 fine.  PLUS you get labeled as a felon for the rest of your life.

Come on people. Use your thinking part of your brains here, not your personal beliefs or opinions.  FACTS will tell us what is right or wrong here.  For instance, a fact would be that, the TABS were never approved by the AF yet for wear on AF-style. 

I don't care if you wear them or not, but when I see someone wearing one, I know they are wrong, and then I lose all respect for them no matter how cool the badge makes them look.

[Mendoza]

all my respects to those who have those quals, but ur gonna tell me that a  "large black subdued rifle with a wreath around it" is authorized on ur bdu, or better yet four shoulder tabs that say ranger, sniper, airborne, and special forces are alowed

[jimmydeanno]

"large black subdued rifle with a wreath around it" is authorized on ur bdu

That would be the combat infantry badge, and yes, it authorized, unlike your ranger badge (CAPM 39-1 table 6-5 #3).  The other tabs are not, but the number of people trying to wear them anyway is far fewer than the number of Hawk grads trying to wear theirs.

It helps if you read the book.

[Ned]

all my respects to those who have those quals, but ur gonna tell me that a  "large black subdued rifle with a wreath around it" is authorized on ur bdu, or better yet four shoulder tabs that say ranger, sniper, airborne, and special forces are alowed

This really isn't the best place to get advice about what other people can or cannot wear on their CAP uniforms.

The best place is the 39-1.

And even if another member is improperly wearing the uniform, I'm not sure how that affects your personal obligation to follow the current regulation.