Level 3 achievement

[Alaric]

OK, I have a question. For me to finish Level 3 I need to conferences. How exactly as those conferences registered though? There's no listing of them in a person's record on eServices as far as I can tell. Is the only record of attendance one has the attendance sheet they are given after attending the conference? Or is there a national record?

You are responsible for maintaining proof of attendance and submitting same with your application for Level 3

[Camas]

Your unit PDO, once he or she has verified that you've attended, can then enter this information into e-services in the  "PD Award Entry" module in "Membership System".

[Alaric]

Your unit PDO, once he or she has verified that you've attended, can then enter this information into e-services in the  "PD Award Entry" module in "Membership System".

That's true but you should still keep your own copy.

[NorCal21]

OK. Thanks guys. I pretty much assumed what y'all said would be the case. You'd think in the year 2014 an online record system would contain more records! I've always kept copies anyway. I keep my own copies. I don't trust people not to lose my stuff!

[SarDragon]

Considering the number of conferences that occur every year, and the variety of members who attend in venues outside their own wings, the logistics are more complex than NHQ currently has the time or personnel for.

[MSG Mac]

Considering the number of conferences that occur every year, and the variety of members who attend in venues outside their own wings, the logistics are more complex than NHQ currently has the time or personnel for.

With National (Regions and Wings also) now using event brite, it should be tan easy transfer of information to track attendance.

[Luis R. Ramos]

You do not even need Event Brite.

Just make a change in the program to allow manual entry. Just like those for Level IV.

[lordmonar]

Or.....we can drop the stupid requirement all together! 

[Fubar]

Or.....we can drop the stupid requirement all together! 

But then who would come to the conference if it wasn't for the people being "forced" to go?

[Eclipse]

If the conferences didn't issue certificates, some wings will accept receipts for payment, including credit card statements,
affidavits from others who know you attended (i.e. a memo from a CC, etc.) or even photos showing the member in attendance.

BTDT -

"I don't recall you being there, sir..."

"Really?  Well here's a photo of me doing the presentation, you in the audience, and there's Gen Bowling.  Are we done here?"

"Yes."

[lordmonar]

I'll tell you what we do at my unit.

"Did you go to two wing or higher conferences?"
"Yes I did"
"Good enough for me."

I went round and round with the wing PDO on this during our SUI.   He asked how we tracked it....and I answered a) That's not a question on the SUI guide and b) we trust our members enough to take their word on it for this requirement. 

I would care more about it if a) the continued the requirement for Level IV and Level V (i.e. required at least 1 additional regional conference for IV and 1 additional National conference for V).  b) If National developed better guidance of what a "conference" really is and what it should include and how much participation is required to be considered "attended" (I mean if all you do is go to the opening ceremony on Friday Night and the Banquet on Saturday....is that "attend"?....also I have been to wing staff meetings that were two days long, included break out sessions, PD courses, CAC meetings, ES training as well as awing business meetings.....why is that not a conference?) c) If national through E-services provided a method of tracking.....CAPF 11 would do nicely.....sign in and those who meet the minimum attendance requirements get a check mark by their names and are entered by the wing/region/national PDO staff into E-services.  d) Attendance has to be relevant to the PD level the individual is working on.  So  Two wing level conference since becomming a Senior Member for Level III, one Regional Conference since earning Level III for Level IV and one National Conference since Level IV for level V.  Then what the supposed goal of conference attendance is truly being served.  Attending two wing conferences as a cadet 20 years ago does not make you a better officer for Level III.

[/rant]

[Eclipse]

^ I agree, and would generally accept a member's word, except this has to go to Wing for their approval,
and I've had a number of them bounced for lack of substantiation, even though it is >wing< that is supposed to
track them.

[lordmonar]

^ I agree, and would generally accept a member's word, except this has to go to Wing for their approval,
and I've had a number of them bounced for lack of substantiation, even though it is >wing< that is supposed to
track them.

Sometimes you got to tell wing to get stuffed!   

[Lord of the North]

Apparently some members have not fully read CAPR 50-17 paragraph 2-5e which states "Members submit applications for awards on CAPF 24, Application for Senior Member Professional Development Award. Documentation (certificates, diplomas, etc.) need not be attached if the member's online record shows completion of requirements. A member submitting an application for an award whose achievements do not appear on their online record must attach copies of supporting documents. NHQ/DPR returns applications not supported by the member's record entries or documentation."
It is clearly stated the a member needs to attached documentation of needed action/training to the application if the necessary documentation is not in e-services.

But then again maybe this requirement isn't important to NHQ since when their on-line PD award module was implemented not method to upload any documentation was included.

YMMV

[Eclipse]

^ You're 100% correct, with the circle of life, in this case, being that the conferences required for these PD levels
have to run and certified by the very echelons which are not providing substantiation, nor tracking participants.

It's been a serious issue in my wing and region for the better part of a decade (thus the comments about
photos and hotel receipts as proof).

The conversations are literally

PDO: "You can't prove you were there"

Member: Yes, but it was you personally who failed to give us any documentation or keep track."

PDO: "Yes, that's true, but I can't help you."

In my opinion, tie should always go to the runner in these cases, but there you go.

[NorCal21]

Apparently some members have not fully read CAPR 50-17 paragraph 2-5e ....

This is correct. I work 14 hours days and by the end of the week I'm tired. I'm finishing a master's program, and I'm in my last class which is a research proposal and paper. That's another 15 to 20 hours a week. I've not been to an actual CAP meeting since around Christmas or as late as January. Plus, it's not my responsibility to know the ins-and-outs of everything CAP document. What I AM supposed to do is ask when I don't know something so that I get it right versus waisting a lot of people's time. I came here to ask people for help because I expected honest, professional help... not arrogant commentary.

Thanks Eclipse and the others for helping! I'll just keep track of stuff as usual.

[MSG Mac]

You do not even need Event Brite.

Just make a change in the program to allow manual entry. Just like those for Level IV.

That's already available in E-Services.

[SARDOC]

The Army lost a records warehouse in Saint Louis due to a fire sometime back in the 1950s on 12 July 1973.

Wearing the tinfoil hat.  I think this was done to avoid future Agent Orange claims.   

[jayleswo]

CAWG publishes a PA listing attendees at our conferences, available on our website.

[SARDOC]

If the conferences didn't issue certificates, some wings will accept receipts for payment, including credit card statements,
affidavits from others who know you attended (i.e. a memo from a CC, etc.) or even photos showing the member in attendance.

BTDT -

"I don't recall you being there, sir..."

"Really?  Well here's a photo of me doing the presentation, you in the audience, and there's Gen Bowling.  Are we done here?"

"Yes."

My wing/region conference issues a Participation Letter IAW CAPR 10-3.  Listing all conference participants/attendees and email blasts it to everyone that provided an email address on registration as well as the Wing/Squadron PDO's.

I've found the verification process is a lot easier now.