Level 3 achievement

[huey]

One SM in our unit got approval from NHQ for achievement of level 3 PD more than half a year ago, still waiting for the certificate! The wing PDO has advised him several times (b/c he asked him) that he's following thru when it get down to the unit for presentation. Could it take a year for this?   

[Майор Хаткевич]

Got my level two wrapped up October/November 2012. Still no cert.

[Angus]

I finished mine almost 2 years ago and still don't have mine.  I gave up on it a while back, I've got the knowledge from the training that's what's really matters about going through the Levels.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Plus...the cert goes in a drawer. Ribbon gets seen/grade does too.

[AlphaSigOU]

Contact Jennifer Carroll, the NHQ registrar at (877) 227-9142, ext. 210 or via email at jcarroll@capnhq.gov . Just ask for a duplicate certificate to be sent directly to you. I finally got my Gill Robb Wilson certificate presented nearly two years after I earned it.

[Eclipse]

Plus...the cert goes in a drawer. Ribbon gets seen/grade does too.

No "I love me wall?".

Though mine only has the commendations, all the levels are...hm...I don't even know - maybe in the
frames behind the decs.   I know I photographed or scanned them, not sure where they actually are...

[Майор Хаткевич]

Plus...the cert goes in a drawer. Ribbon gets seen/grade does too.

No "I love me wall?".

Though mine only has the commendations, all the levels are...hm...I don't even know - maybe in the
frames behind the decs.   I know I photographed or scanned them, not sure where they actually are...

No wall to "love thyself" to use. And of course outside of cadet stuff, where really, only Mitchell/Earhart may warrant it, and outside of SLS/TLC/UCC, I haven't earned anything special anyway.

[Angus]

Plus...the cert goes in a drawer. Ribbon gets seen/grade does too.

No "I love me wall?".

Though mine only has the commendations, all the levels are...hm...I don't even know - maybe in the
frames behind the decs.   I know I photographed or scanned them, not sure where they actually are...

No wall to "love thyself" to use. And of course outside of cadet stuff, where really, only Mitchell/Earhart may warrant it, and outside of SLS/TLC/UCC, I haven't earned anything special anyway.

Only Senior Professional Development Certificate I'd display would be a Level V.  That is if I were to ever get it.

[Garibaldi]

Plus...the cert goes in a drawer. Ribbon gets seen/grade does too.

No "I love me wall?".

Though mine only has the commendations, all the levels are...hm...I don't even know - maybe in the
frames behind the decs.   I know I photographed or scanned them, not sure where they actually are...

No wall to "love thyself" to use. And of course outside of cadet stuff, where really, only Mitchell/Earhart may warrant it, and outside of SLS/TLC/UCC, I haven't earned anything special anyway.

Only Senior Professional Development Certificate I'd display would be a Level V.  That is if I were to ever get it.

All my "bling" is in a steamer trunk.

[THRAWN]

Plus...the cert goes in a drawer. Ribbon gets seen/grade does too.

No "I love me wall?".

Though mine only has the commendations, all the levels are...hm...I don't even know - maybe in the
frames behind the decs.   I know I photographed or scanned them, not sure where they actually are...

No wall to "love thyself" to use. And of course outside of cadet stuff, where really, only Mitchell/Earhart may warrant it, and outside of SLS/TLC/UCC, I haven't earned anything special anyway.

Only Senior Professional Development Certificate I'd display would be a Level V.  That is if I were to ever get it.

All my "bling" is in a steamer trunk.

Mine are in a lockbox in my basement. All that's on my office wall are my cert from AFRCC SMC, NSS Inland SAR Coordinator, SOS and ACSC. I will be poor if I had all my "stuff" framed...

[Simplex]

Contact Jennifer Carroll, the NHQ registrar at (877) 227-9142, ext. 210 or via email at jcarroll@capnhq.gov . Just ask for a duplicate certificate to be sent directly to you. I finally got my Gill Robb Wilson certificate presented nearly two years after I earned it.

Roger that! I contacted Ms. Carroll and she told me that they had run out of Certificates and were waiting on the supplier.
Just about a week ago she said that they had all been sent out but many were returned due to damaged at the PO or errors in addresses. My Squadron is waiting on 4 from last year. Plus, staffing is down to bare bones and I don't think she has help in her office.

[huey]

Got my level two wrapped up October/November 2012. Still no cert.

So you didn't do anything about it?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Got my level two wrapped up October/November 2012. Still no cert.

So you didn't do anything about it?

Why? It's a piece of paper.

[Panache]

Got my level two wrapped up October/November 2012. Still no cert.

So you didn't do anything about it?

Why? It's a piece of paper.

Well, that and a buck could get you a small coffee at Dunkin' Donuts.

[Eclipse]

Only if you have a coupon!

[Майор Хаткевич]

[LSThiker]

Why? It's a piece of paper.

It is called proof.

Always keep an "I love me" binder with either copies or the original certificates.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Why? It's a piece of paper.

It is called proof.

Always keep an "I love me" binder with either copies or the original certificates.

Also called Capt bars without special promotion and Eservices.

[LSThiker]

Also called Capt bars without special promotion and Eservices.

Yes, trust eServices.     Had a glitch in eServices some years back and lost my SLS and CLC completion.  Sent national the certificates.  Had no problems getting my file back up.  My iPERMS file also lost items sporadically.  I lost my Captains Career Course completion form and had to send that back to the DA to get added.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Courses are one thing...levels another.

[LSThiker]

Courses are one thing...levels another.

Mine were courses.  Could have been levels or promotions.

I have my DD214 on file at the county registrars office, in a fire box at my home, and at my parents home.  You realize that back in the 1960s or 70s, NHQ had a fire and lost many records and files.  The Army lost a records warehouse in Saint Louis due to a fire sometime back in the 1950s on 12 July 1973. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

Again, if levels clear out...I have my file at the unit. I have requirement paperwork that was necessary for the level completion. Of grade, and levels disappear? If I'm still in CAP, I have squadron and group command staff to vouch for me on top of the paperwork in my file and my house/computer. If I'm no longer in? Who would care?

[Eclipse]

You both have valid points, but there is also practical reality.

Once you've been promoted to a given grade, what went before doesn't mean much.

If you still need to substantiate SLS or CLC, then by all means hang onto the proof, but once you have the bars,
etc., even a major glitch isn't going to require anything more then showing NHQ your most recent ID card, etc.

Something I did notice recently, there seems to be more then a few senior members who have at least one
cadet-demotion in their records, (i.e. 2d Lt - 1st Lt - Capt - C/Amn - Major)  happened to my Wing CC, and I noticed
it the other day on another member.

I have a CAP electronic personnel file and everything I get / care about is scanned or photographed in there.
There is less and less each year that I would worry about losing in a fire, since everything is still there as long
as I have my login credentials.

The people who have been most "bit" by lost records are generally those with some drama in the file - prolonged
CAP gap in membership, "Jim doesn't like me." "I was pinned by General Schwarzkopf but no one did the paperwork.", etc.

[LSThiker]

Again, if levels clear out...I have my file at the unit. I have requirement paperwork that was necessary for the level completion. Of grade, and levels disappear? If I'm still in CAP, I have squadron and group command staff to vouch for me on top of the paperwork in my file and my house/computer. If I'm no longer in? Who would care?

Just lessons through experience when stuff hits the fan.

I have a CAP electronic personnel file and everything I get / care about is scanned or photographed in there.
There is less and less each year that I would worry about losing in a fire, since everything is still there as long
as I have my login credentials.

Well yes, by binder I really mean file whether electronic or actual.  Mine is now electronic with everything loaded on a storage drive and a cloud.

[LSThiker]

The people who have been most "bit" by lost records are generally those with some drama in the file - prolonged
CAP gap in membership

Have seen that.  A former Spaatz cadet trying to get back in after getting out in the 1980s.  Name showed up on the TSA website.  He could not find the Spaatz certificate.  NHQ would not accept the TSA list.  Took about a month for NHQ to find his Spaatz certificate. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I got a Level 2 certificate back in 1995, but it's long since lost in my many moves (though it is recorded at National).

All of my certificates and military discharge papers are in a fireproof lockbox.

I have walls that I could use for the proverbial "I Love Me" wall but I think it would be a bit egotistical...that's just me.

[LSThiker]

I have walls that I could use for the proverbial "I Love Me" wall but I think it would be a bit egotistical...that's just me.

Never got into the "I Love Me" wall.  Not a single degree, certificate, board certification, medal, or shadow box is hanging on my walls.  That space is reserved for my child and artwork. 

[THRAWN]

I have walls that I could use for the proverbial "I Love Me" wall but I think it would be a bit egotistical...that's just me.

Never got into the "I Love Me" wall.  Not a single degree, certificate, board certification, medal, or shadow box is hanging on my walls.  That space is reserved for my child and artwork.

You hang your child on a wall?

[LSThiker]

You hang your child on a wall?

It makes finding her really easy.  She takes after me and tries to climb it

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Never got into the "I Love Me" wall.  Not a single degree, certificate, board certification, medal, or shadow box is hanging on my walls.  That space is reserved for my child and artwork.

I didn't either...people sometimes wonder why I don't have my college degree on display (it's still in its original 1992 presentation folder).  My wife doesn't display hers either.

I came from a culture where you didn't "put yourself forward."

One of the strangest ones I have is from when I was in the CGAUX, listing me as a "founding member" of the Department of Homeland Security!  Figure that one out!

[Eclipse]

My home is a tramp.

Some walls love me, some my wife, a bunch of them seem to favor the kids (don't get me started about
the frig!), a few show affection for people who don't even live here.

On the other hand, the garage likes to stand around with its walls half-naked, with a hipster's
wannabe aesthetic of maps, ads, and old signs.

To those of you who apparently only have one wall, forcing you to make hard life choices about what is displayed,
you have my sympathy. 

It must be very drafty.

[Storm Chaser]

I have nothing on my walls, not even in my home office. Not a single degree, award or certificate from school, college, the Air Force, CAP or other organizations. I have the space, but it's never been a priority for me. Not that there's anything wrong with displaying someone's accomplishments.

[James Shaw]

My wife is the one who has everything framed. She does that to keep it out of the house and "her" walls. Not a scrap in the house "other than hers" in her office. She is also the one who decorates my studio behind our house. It is the price I pay for a happy marriage.

[Pingree1492]

(...)  Something I did notice recently, there seems to be more then a few senior members who have at least one
cadet-demotion in their records, (i.e. 2d Lt - 1st Lt - Capt - C/Amn - Major)  happened to my Wing CC, and I noticed
it the other day on another member.   (...)

This isn't a demotion, it's a system error.  I have the same thing on my electronic file.

It came about when we were moving to the online SQTR's and such.  You had to have been listed as a C/Amn for your 101 Card to be valid.  That I had already earned my Spaatz at that point didn't seem to matter to OpsQuals.  So my ES officer had to put in the 'achievement' of C/Amn for my card to show up. 

Wonders of moving to a new system...

[Eclipse]

You're saying he manually entered you as a C/Amn?

I can tell you it isn't consistent across the board, just seems to pop up on random members.

[Pingree1492]

I was entered into OpsQuals as a Cadet Airman, in order to have the 101 card displayed.  At the time, cadet promotions weren't tracked in eServices, but milestones were.  So, if you look at my records, you'll see that I earned the Curry Achievement and the Billy Mitchell award on the same date (the system at the time automatically back-dated the entry of C/Amn in OpsQuals to the Billy Mitchell award date, if it had been achieved.  If not, you "earned" the Curry Achievement on whatever date the award was entered- regardless of your actual cadet grade at the time).

When the change-over occurred in the cadet promotion tracking system happened (sometime after 2011), the 'promotion' to Cadet Airman was now tracked as the date that it was entered into OpsQuals.  So if you look at my records, I was promoted to C/Col in Feb 2003, and 'promoted' to C/Amn in Oct 2004.  I'm sure it can be fixed by National, but it's not exactly been a priority.

Just a bit of background knowledge if you see this in someone's records.  Only cadets who were active in ES around that time and actually earned a specialty would have this crop up, so not an especially common error.  Obviously no one can get dumped from C/Col to C/Amn, and taking away a Spaatz Award would kinda make the news...

[Майор Хаткевич]

When my Mitchell was submitted, they backdated and issued me a WBA, which of course was too high for date of issue. But it's not listed as same day.

[a2capt]

I had several .. back when this was first brought online we had direct access to simply edit things as they needed to be. The comment "***This module is for inserting new achievements and awards ONLY. To input prior achievements please email Sharon Jackson at sjackson@capnhq.gov ***" dates back to that, as it used to say "use the EDIT ... " to input prior achievements.

Eventually we had an evening where we just entered in everyone and used the online records from that point onward.

[BillB]

Or you could havebeen in the "old" cadet program. There a Squadron CC could promote/demote at any time. Promotions were not attached to achievements other that completing COP for any cadet officer grades. I think I went fromC/1Lt to C/Maj, back to C/Capt, back to C/Maj then back to C/1Lt all within 6 months. Wing CC could promote to C/LCol and C/Col after completing achievments 8 and 9.

[NorCal21]

OK, I have a question. For me to finish Level 3 I need to conferences. How exactly as those conferences registered though? There's no listing of them in a person's record on eServices as far as I can tell. Is the only record of attendance one has the attendance sheet they are given after attending the conference? Or is there a national record?

[Alaric]

OK, I have a question. For me to finish Level 3 I need to conferences. How exactly as those conferences registered though? There's no listing of them in a person's record on eServices as far as I can tell. Is the only record of attendance one has the attendance sheet they are given after attending the conference? Or is there a national record?

You are responsible for maintaining proof of attendance and submitting same with your application for Level 3

[Camas]

Your unit PDO, once he or she has verified that you've attended, can then enter this information into e-services in the  "PD Award Entry" module in "Membership System".

[Alaric]

Your unit PDO, once he or she has verified that you've attended, can then enter this information into e-services in the  "PD Award Entry" module in "Membership System".

That's true but you should still keep your own copy.

[NorCal21]

OK. Thanks guys. I pretty much assumed what y'all said would be the case. You'd think in the year 2014 an online record system would contain more records! I've always kept copies anyway. I keep my own copies. I don't trust people not to lose my stuff!

[SarDragon]

Considering the number of conferences that occur every year, and the variety of members who attend in venues outside their own wings, the logistics are more complex than NHQ currently has the time or personnel for.

[MSG Mac]

Considering the number of conferences that occur every year, and the variety of members who attend in venues outside their own wings, the logistics are more complex than NHQ currently has the time or personnel for.

With National (Regions and Wings also) now using event brite, it should be tan easy transfer of information to track attendance.

[Luis R. Ramos]

You do not even need Event Brite.

Just make a change in the program to allow manual entry. Just like those for Level IV.

[lordmonar]

Or.....we can drop the stupid requirement all together! 

[Fubar]

Or.....we can drop the stupid requirement all together! 

But then who would come to the conference if it wasn't for the people being "forced" to go?

[Eclipse]

If the conferences didn't issue certificates, some wings will accept receipts for payment, including credit card statements,
affidavits from others who know you attended (i.e. a memo from a CC, etc.) or even photos showing the member in attendance.

BTDT -

"I don't recall you being there, sir..."

"Really?  Well here's a photo of me doing the presentation, you in the audience, and there's Gen Bowling.  Are we done here?"

"Yes."

[lordmonar]

I'll tell you what we do at my unit.

"Did you go to two wing or higher conferences?"
"Yes I did"
"Good enough for me."

I went round and round with the wing PDO on this during our SUI.   He asked how we tracked it....and I answered a) That's not a question on the SUI guide and b) we trust our members enough to take their word on it for this requirement. 

I would care more about it if a) the continued the requirement for Level IV and Level V (i.e. required at least 1 additional regional conference for IV and 1 additional National conference for V).  b) If National developed better guidance of what a "conference" really is and what it should include and how much participation is required to be considered "attended" (I mean if all you do is go to the opening ceremony on Friday Night and the Banquet on Saturday....is that "attend"?....also I have been to wing staff meetings that were two days long, included break out sessions, PD courses, CAC meetings, ES training as well as awing business meetings.....why is that not a conference?) c) If national through E-services provided a method of tracking.....CAPF 11 would do nicely.....sign in and those who meet the minimum attendance requirements get a check mark by their names and are entered by the wing/region/national PDO staff into E-services.  d) Attendance has to be relevant to the PD level the individual is working on.  So  Two wing level conference since becomming a Senior Member for Level III, one Regional Conference since earning Level III for Level IV and one National Conference since Level IV for level V.  Then what the supposed goal of conference attendance is truly being served.  Attending two wing conferences as a cadet 20 years ago does not make you a better officer for Level III.

[/rant]

[Eclipse]

^ I agree, and would generally accept a member's word, except this has to go to Wing for their approval,
and I've had a number of them bounced for lack of substantiation, even though it is >wing< that is supposed to
track them.

[lordmonar]

^ I agree, and would generally accept a member's word, except this has to go to Wing for their approval,
and I've had a number of them bounced for lack of substantiation, even though it is >wing< that is supposed to
track them.

Sometimes you got to tell wing to get stuffed!   

[Lord of the North]

Apparently some members have not fully read CAPR 50-17 paragraph 2-5e which states "Members submit applications for awards on CAPF 24, Application for Senior Member Professional Development Award. Documentation (certificates, diplomas, etc.) need not be attached if the member's online record shows completion of requirements. A member submitting an application for an award whose achievements do not appear on their online record must attach copies of supporting documents. NHQ/DPR returns applications not supported by the member's record entries or documentation."
It is clearly stated the a member needs to attached documentation of needed action/training to the application if the necessary documentation is not in e-services.

But then again maybe this requirement isn't important to NHQ since when their on-line PD award module was implemented not method to upload any documentation was included.

YMMV

[Eclipse]

^ You're 100% correct, with the circle of life, in this case, being that the conferences required for these PD levels
have to run and certified by the very echelons which are not providing substantiation, nor tracking participants.

It's been a serious issue in my wing and region for the better part of a decade (thus the comments about
photos and hotel receipts as proof).

The conversations are literally

PDO: "You can't prove you were there"

Member: Yes, but it was you personally who failed to give us any documentation or keep track."

PDO: "Yes, that's true, but I can't help you."

In my opinion, tie should always go to the runner in these cases, but there you go.

[NorCal21]

Apparently some members have not fully read CAPR 50-17 paragraph 2-5e ....

This is correct. I work 14 hours days and by the end of the week I'm tired. I'm finishing a master's program, and I'm in my last class which is a research proposal and paper. That's another 15 to 20 hours a week. I've not been to an actual CAP meeting since around Christmas or as late as January. Plus, it's not my responsibility to know the ins-and-outs of everything CAP document. What I AM supposed to do is ask when I don't know something so that I get it right versus waisting a lot of people's time. I came here to ask people for help because I expected honest, professional help... not arrogant commentary.

Thanks Eclipse and the others for helping! I'll just keep track of stuff as usual.

[MSG Mac]

You do not even need Event Brite.

Just make a change in the program to allow manual entry. Just like those for Level IV.

That's already available in E-Services.

[SARDOC]

The Army lost a records warehouse in Saint Louis due to a fire sometime back in the 1950s on 12 July 1973.

Wearing the tinfoil hat.  I think this was done to avoid future Agent Orange claims.   

[jayleswo]

CAWG publishes a PA listing attendees at our conferences, available on our website.

[SARDOC]

If the conferences didn't issue certificates, some wings will accept receipts for payment, including credit card statements,
affidavits from others who know you attended (i.e. a memo from a CC, etc.) or even photos showing the member in attendance.

BTDT -

"I don't recall you being there, sir..."

"Really?  Well here's a photo of me doing the presentation, you in the audience, and there's Gen Bowling.  Are we done here?"

"Yes."

My wing/region conference issues a Participation Letter IAW CAPR 10-3.  Listing all conference participants/attendees and email blasts it to everyone that provided an email address on registration as well as the Wing/Squadron PDO's.

I've found the verification process is a lot easier now.

[MSG Mac]

The Army lost a records warehouse in Saint Louis due to a fire sometime back in the 1950s on 12 July 1973.

Wearing the tinfoil hat.  I think this was done to avoid future Agent Orange claims.   

If you listened to the excuses from the National Personnel Records Center, that fire is responsible for more damage than Mrs O'Leary's cow, Nero, and the fire bombing of Tokyo combined.

[SARDOC]

The Army lost a records warehouse in Saint Louis due to a fire sometime back in the 1950s on 12 July 1973.

Wearing the tinfoil hat.  I think this was done to avoid future Agent Orange claims.   

If you listened to the excuses from the National Personnel Records Center, that fire is responsible for more damage than Mrs O'Leary's cow, Nero, and the fire bombing of Tokyo combined.

Agreed.  I sent a archive request for my initial military PEBD.  They sent me a reply that referenced the record wasn't available and cited the Fire. 

I sent them a reply that I'm sorry that you are still feeling the effects of that horrific tragedy...but could they please check again as the date of the fire was a few years before I was born.  I think my record should still be available somewhere.  I got my requested information about 6 weeks later.