Red Service Ribbon

[SarDragon]

I spent ten years "pay, no play", attached to a unit I was as much as 6800 great circle miles away from. There were various reasons for my non-participation, but the time still counted toward my Red Service ribbons.

[DoubleSecret]

It's ridiculous that we require paperwork on this one.  It's analogous to the Air Force Longevity Service Award, which we'd just start wearing (or attach the appropriate device) every 4 years. 

[NIN]

It should just pop up in your online record when the time is greater than 24 months.. Hey look I just eliminated another administrative process!

[Storm Chaser]

Instead of years "in good standing", the Red Service Ribbon should be awarded for years of active service. Paying yearly dues should not be the sole criteria to "earn" this ribbon.

[Eclipse]

Instead of years "in good standing", the Red Service Ribbon should be awarded for years of active service. Paying yearly dues should not be the sole criteria to "earn" this ribbon.

Agreed, however in order to be "active", NHQ would have to define the term.

Those who are "inactive" would be sad.

Not to mention we'd probably have 1/3rd of the membership reporting as "inactive".

[Storm Chaser]

I can live with that.

[pierson777]

It should just pop up in your online record when the time is greater than 24 months.. Hey look I just eliminated another administrative process!

Even if the award were recorded in eServices, it would probably still need to be electronically submitted and approved.  Sure, the first one is usually straight forward, serve two years and you get the ribbon, but that's not always the case.  Other variables exist that hamper the ability to allow the system to automatically approve the award.  For instance, eServices will not account for noncontinuous tenure of membership, especially when a portion of said tenure was prior to eServices.

[a2capt]

If mailing in a check, during that era, counts as "service" .. sure. But since the system has no other factors to include.. sure.

[Shawn W.]

Congrats on 2 Years of service. Now.. here's my advice.  Complete All Paperwork Anything and everything that you do, or earn.. Make sure you have the appropriate paperwork to go with with it..  Make multiple copies..  Put one in your file at your squdron, keep a personel file at home, and I like to also keep a digital file on my computer. This could save you a lot of headaches down the road. Remember... YOU are responsible for maintaining your files.

Cheers,

[NIN]

It should just pop up in your online record when the time is greater than 24 months.. Hey look I just eliminated another administrative process!

Even if the award were recorded in eServices, it would probably still need to be electronically submitted and approved.  Sure, the first one is usually straight forward, serve two years and you get the ribbon, but that's not always the case.  Other variables exist that hamper the ability to allow the system to automatically approve the award.  For instance, eServices will not account for noncontinuous tenure of membership, especially when a portion of said tenure was prior to eServices.

Sure. I get that.

(that describes me. 28 years in CAP, then I retired in 2009, came back in 2013)

But if you can pre-load service or something, eventually e-services kicks out a correct accounting of your necessary "longevity awards"

Wouldn't that be nice?

[THRAWN]

Instead of years "in good standing", the Red Service Ribbon should be awarded for years of active service. Paying yearly dues should not be the sole criteria to "earn" this ribbon.

Agreed, however in order to be "active", NHQ would have to define the term.

Those who are "inactive" would be sad.

Not to mention we'd probably have 1/3rd of the membership reporting as "inactive".

I was going to comment in a similar manner. What defines "active"? Is the guy who gets deployed for a year "inactive"? Is the guy who missed one meeting per month and doesn't do weekend activities due to work commitments "inactive"? Take your join date, add 24 months, there's a ribbon. Thanks for playing.

[Eclipse]

Take your join date, add 24 months, there's a ribbon. Thanks for playing.

Yep - at least in this context that's all there is, and frankly, these days, if you're on a unit's roster, you should be "active" - otherwise if the unit CC
considers you "inactive" enough to not get an RSR, then you should be in either 000 or a Patron.

Interesting that again, this circles back to NHQ's lack of definition of "active" vs. "other".   We report our manpower and readiness
based on pure roster numbers, knowing full well those do not reflect real-world participation.

Simple, baseline assumptions even the local PTA makes that are too much hassle for CAP to define.

[THRAWN]

"Simple, baseline assumptions even the local PTA makes that are too much hassle for CAP to define."

When would there be time to invent new and exciting classes of membership and uniform combinations? You know, the important things?

[Eclipse]

When would there be time to invent new and exciting classes of membership and uniform combinations? You know, the important things?

Sorry, my bad.   Sometimes I throw out these wild / crazy ideas just to see if they will stick!   

[MSG Mac]

The award of the Red Service Ribbon should be subjective Two years of membership should be the least of the requirements. Active membership and concrete contributions to the success of the squadron, should be considerations also. IE I have two cadets attending college who haven't been seen since they graduated from high school (except when they decided to apply for NCSA's). I have informed them that there is a CAP Squadron three blocks down the street-they didn't transfer. Do they deserve a Red Service Ribbon? Not if I have anything to do with it. RSR should be thought of as the CAP Good Conduct Medal and only awarded when the person deserves it.   

[Papabird]

The award of the Red Service Ribbon should be subjective Two years of membership should be the least of the requirements. Active membership and concrete contributions to the success of the squadron, should be considerations also. IE I have two cadets attending college who haven't been seen since they graduated from high school (except when they decided to apply for NCSA's). I have informed them that there is a CAP Squadron three blocks down the street-they didn't transfer. Do they deserve a Red Service Ribbon? Not if I have anything to do with it. RSR should be thought of as the CAP Good Conduct Medal and only awarded when the person deserves it.

That has always been a point of contention to me.  There is an AF longevity ribbon and the AF Good Conduct medal.  These are two separate awards, one is for mere presence, the other is for conduct/actions.  So, which is the Red Service Ribbon Medal?

Per CAPR 39-3: "Red Service Ribbon. Awarded at the end of 2 years (as a cadet or senior member in good standing)"
Per CAPR 39-2: Mentions "Good-Standing" twice.  Once for transfers & once for retirement.   Otherwise this would be the closest I can find to "good standing":  "Any member who maintains current membership in the active senior member category is entitled to attend meetings, hold a duty position, participate in CAP activities, wear the CAP uniform and exercise other privileges of membership"

So, is it a Service award or a Conduct award?  I say it would be nice if it were the latter, but I think it is the former (give it to anyway who pays and gets the time).

[Private Investigator]

The award of the Red Service Ribbon should be subjective Two years of membership should be the least of the requirements. Active membership and concrete contributions to the success of the squadron, should be considerations also.

Subjective exactly.

What you may consider the ideal member for a RSR, I may consider a good ole boy slacker. So perception is called into play. The last Squadron I was in and from years of experience in several other Squadrons I thought the AE and the SE guys both were exceptional. But the Commander would not put either in for any "OTY" awards but put himself in for pilot or observer every year. Every time we think we are on the high road, somebody comes along to remind us we are just human.   

[Private Investigator]

The award of the Red Service Ribbon should be subjective Two years of membership should be the least of the requirements. Active membership and concrete contributions to the success of the squadron, should be considerations also. IE I have two cadets attending college who haven't been seen since they graduated from high school (except when they decided to apply for NCSA's). I have informed them that there is a CAP Squadron three blocks down the street-they didn't transfer. Do they deserve a Red Service Ribbon? Not if I have anything to do with it. RSR should be thought of as the CAP Good Conduct Medal and only awarded when the person deserves it.

That has always been a point of contention to me.  There is an AF longevity ribbon and the AF Good Conduct medal.  These are two separate awards, one is for mere presence, the other is for conduct/actions.  So, which is the Red Service Ribbon Medal?

Per CAPR 39-3: "Red Service Ribbon. Awarded at the end of 2 years (as a cadet or senior member in good standing)"
Per CAPR 39-2: Mentions "Good-Standing" twice.  Once for transfers & once for retirement.   Otherwise this would be the closest I can find to "good standing":  "Any member who maintains current membership in the active senior member category is entitled to attend meetings, hold a duty position, participate in CAP activities, wear the CAP uniform and exercise other privileges of membership"

So, is it a Service award or a Conduct award?  I say it would be nice if it were the latter, but I think it is the former (give it to anyway who pays and gets the time).

Very good points indeed. I think it is the former too. 

[pierson777]

Do they deserve a Red Service Ribbon? Not if I have anything to do with it.

Out of curiosity, would you deny their transfer out?  If they want the ribbon and you won't approve it, they could just transfer then request the ribbon through their new unit.  Does that unit's commander have any reason not to approve the ribbon?  Probably not, so the cadets will get the ribbon through the other unit.  Alternatively, if they request the ribbon and you deny it, then they can contact an IG.  I suspect an IG would support authorizing the ribbon regardless how how much the member participates.

[MSG Mac]

Do they deserve a Red Service Ribbon? Not if I have anything to do with it.

Out of curiosity, would you deny their transfer out?  If they want the ribbon and you won't approve it, they could just transfer then request the ribbon through their new unit.  Does that unit's commander have any reason not to approve the ribbon?  Probably not, so the cadets will get the ribbon through the other unit.  Alternatively, if they request the ribbon and you deny it, then they can contact an IG.  I suspect an IG would support authorizing the ribbon regardless how how much the member participates.

Yes, I would transfer them. rather than have them vegetating without advancing their cadet careers. Saying "I love my squadron, while 2000 miles away doesn't do anything for anybody.