Shoe Lacing Style Regulation

[Eclipse]

Not that I really want to stir the pot, but when I was in AFROTC the standard was left over right on both shoes and tucked in laces. *shrug*

Was it in an AFI or JROTC specific manual?

[Garibaldi]

Not that I really want to stir the pot, but when I was in AFROTC the standard was left over right on both shoes and tucked in laces. *shrug*

Was it in an AFI or JROTC specific manual?

Neither. The POCs told us GMCs that this is what we do. I should have said our Det's accepted and unwritten standard. I think someone way back went to field training and brought the standard there back to our Det.

[Eclipse]

OK, then that's a custom, not a standard.  Nothing wrong with that, as long as people understand.

CAP people, especially cadets, don't usually understand the nuance.

[lordmonar]

OK, then that's a custom, not a standard.  Nothing wrong with that, as long as people understand.

CAP people, especially cadets, don't usually understand the nuance.

Hence my comments to the OP way back on page 1.

Do it the way your leadership tells you to do it.....and move on.

[SarDragon]

OK, then that's a custom, not a standard.  Nothing wrong with that, as long as people understand.

CAP people, especially cadets, don't usually understand the nuance.

Why isn't it a standard? It denotes expected performance. The fact that it is not documented makes no difference in the basic definition.

[Airman De Ruiter]

I don't really see why.

You have lied on this board, at least twice you have been caught by several members. When you lie, it casts doubt on everything else you state as the truth.

Lets see what the lies were:

1. The C/Captain joke.
2. Being a CAP member.

Any other regular wants to add to the lies this poster has been caught doing?

There is a story that is well worth repeating.

A sheep herder was bored, and to have some fun, yelled "Wolf! Wolf!" The entire village came out. When they arrived, the sheep herder was laughing. On two other days, he repeated the ruse. On the fourth day, a real wolf started killing his sheep. He yelled "wolf" several times, but not a single person helped him. He lost his sheep because of his earlier tricks.

Airman, Not yet a cadet, you have yelled "Wolf!" on this board at least two times.

(Thanks, Colonel and SJ)

Flyer

I apologize to those who took my sig as an implication of my grade, but I assure you it was solely humourus in intent. As for the membership thing, I could/should have been more clear as to my status, but I didn't really touch on it because it wasn't exactly important for my questions. Once again, I apologize for any confusion, but I'd like to think that my integrity is just fine. Integrity is a big part of AFJROTC and a central part of what I teach my cadets.

[Eclipse]

Integrity is a big part of AFJROTC and a central part of what I teach my cadets.

Citizenship may be a requirement, but it's not like they check. They request a SSN, but there's not much they do if they don't get one.

[Storm Chaser]

OK, then that's a custom, not a standard.  Nothing wrong with that, as long as people understand.

Why isn't it a standard? It denotes expected performance. The fact that it is not documented makes no difference in the basic definition.

Actually, a custom refers to "long established practice" or "a usage or practice common to many". It's related to tradition. A standard refers to "something established by authority, custom, or general consent as a model or example". While it's true that standards are more effective when written down and published, they don't necessarily have to be. Furthermore, standards may be established at the local level, i.e. squadron or flight. You're confusing standard with directive or policy, such as those prescribe by regulations and instructions. Regulations, as well as manuals, may also prescribe standards. At the local level, policy letters or operating instructions may prescribe standards.

When I was a cadet and member of the drill team, the 'standard' was also to lace our shoes and boots with the left lace going over the right one. This standard was not in written format, but it was prescribed by the drill team commander, with full support from the squadron commander, and known to everyone in the drill team.

[Storm Chaser]

Integrity is a big part of AFJROTC and a central part of what I teach my cadets.

Citizenship may be a requirement, but it's not like they check. They request a SSN, but there's not much they do if they don't get one.

Based on different comments made throughout multiple posts, I can only conclude that this "cadet" just doesn't get it. Integrity is not negotiable. While there may be shades of gray when dealing with different situations in CAP and in life in general, there's no shade of gray when it comes to right and wrong. Integrity requires doing the right thing always, even when no one is watching. Not just when it's convenient.

[Airman De Ruiter]

Integrity is a big part of AFJROTC and a central part of what I teach my cadets.

Citizenship may be a requirement, but it's not like they check. They request a SSN, but there's not much they do if they don't get one.

I am a citizen. Citizenship is the requirement, not proof of.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Proof of citizenship IS actually required...good luck with your application without it.

[ColonelJack]

I apologize to those who took my sig as an implication of my grade, but I assure you it was solely humourus in intent. As for the membership thing, I could/should have been more clear as to my status, but I didn't really touch on it because it wasn't exactly important for my questions. Once again, I apologize for any confusion, but I'd like to think that my integrity is just fine. Integrity is a big part of AFJROTC and a central part of what I teach my cadets.

Whoa, hold on a minute here.

You didn't touch on your status because it "wasn't exactly important" for your questions?  This, after telling us you were (paraphrasing here) your unit's "uniform Nazi"?  Huh?  Did I miss something there?

Look, son...if you ain't in CAP, you ain't in a unit, and you ain't got no business being a "uniform Nazi" for anybody!

On the signature line, I got the joke.  I think a lot of us got the joke.  It might not have been a good joke, but we got it.  It's the status thing that really gets me ... here you are, coming in to CAPTalk and telling us that you are your unit's (again paraphrasing) enforcer on uniforms ... when you aren't even a bloody CAP cadet!!!!  You might be all that and a bag of crisps in AFJROTC, NSCC, and everything else you participate in, but if you aren't a dues-paid, card-carrying cadet member of the Civil Air Patrol, you have absolutely NO business saying diddly-squat to a CAP cadet about his or her uniform!

And even if I buy everything else you say...you're a Cadet Airman in AFJROTC, no?  In that case, your job is to make sure YOU are squared away.  Once you've accomplished that - and you have the approval of your element leader, flight leader, etc., to do so - then you can advise other cadet airmen about uniform issues.  (N.B. - if I am in error about your cadet grade, and you do indeed have sufficient stripes to be teaching anything to any other cadets, I retract this particular paragraph.  But not the rest of this post.  That stands as written.)

A very wise man told me, "Learn today ... lead tomorrow."  I pass that advice on to you, Mr. de Ruiter.  I have followed it my entire life.  It's good advice.  (Thanks for the advice, Dad.)

Jack

[SarDragon]

Integrity is a big part of AFJROTC and a central part of what I teach my cadets.

Citizenship may be a requirement, but it's not like they check. They request a SSN, but there's not much they do if they don't get one.

I am a citizen. Citizenship is the requirement, not proof of.

Tell that to an employer or the military recruiter.

From CAPF 15:

A. Citizenship
1. Are you a citizen of the United States? Yes No. 2. Are you an alien admitted for permanent
residence? Yes No (Must possess current alien registration receipt card [Form I-151 or I-551])

The squadron may ask for proof.

You're just digging yourself a deeper hole. Why not let it go, and save us all the angst.

[lordmonar]

Integrity is a big part of AFJROTC and a central part of what I teach my cadets.

Citizenship may be a requirement, but it's not like they check. They request a SSN, but there's not much they do if they don't get one.

I am a citizen. Citizenship is the requirement, not proof of.

Survey Says?   BZZZZZT!

No SSAN.......or Individual Tax Payer ID Number.....no membership in CAP!

[Airman De Ruiter]

Integrity is a big part of AFJROTC and a central part of what I teach my cadets.

Citizenship may be a requirement, but it's not like they check. They request a SSN, but there's not much they do if they don't get one.

I am a citizen. Citizenship is the requirement, not proof of.

Survey Says?   BZZZZZT!

No SSAN.......or Individual Tax Payer ID Number.....no membership in CAP!

Read it again, I was referring to AFJROTC, not CAP.

[JayT]

Integrity is a big part of AFJROTC and a central part of what I teach my cadets.

Citizenship may be a requirement, but it's not like they check. They request a SSN, but there's not much they do if they don't get one.

I am a citizen. Citizenship is the requirement, not proof of.

Survey Says?   BZZZZZT!

No SSAN.......or Individual Tax Payer ID Number.....no membership in CAP!

Read it again, I was referring to AFJROTC, not CAP.

And you still have no credibility.

[SarDragon]

If you aren't a member of CAP, and aren't going to do the proper paperwork to join, why are you still here? You got your original Q answered, and then have done nothing but argue with us about your status in various cadet organizations. Take a break, and come back when you're able to be more mature with your participation here.

[abdsp51]

Mr. DeRuiter please do yourself a favor and lay low for awhile.   Your antics and behavior here have already given you a black eye and you may have potentially given the unit you want to join one as well.  The NV Wg leadership especially within the Cadet Programs domain are well aware of your antics here.    You seriously need to remove the chip on your shoulder and learn when to be humble.

[lordmonar]

Integrity is a big part of AFJROTC and a central part of what I teach my cadets.

Citizenship may be a requirement, but it's not like they check. They request a SSN, but there's not much they do if they don't get one.

I am a citizen. Citizenship is the requirement, not proof of.

Survey Says?   BZZZZZT!

No SSAN.......or Individual Tax Payer ID Number.....no membership in CAP!

Read it again, I was referring to AFJROTC, not CAP.

And the name of this site is CAP Talk.

As for AFJROTC....somewhere deep in the regs there is a requirment to be a citezen or lawful resident of the U.S.
Now a lot of states and cities don't require proof of residency or citizenship to go to school.....and the USAF turns a blind eye to it....because they don't really care.

But CAP does. 

[lordmonar]

Mr. DeRuiter please do yourself a favor and lay low for awhile.   Your antics and behavior here have already given you a black eye and you may have potentially given the unit you want to join one as well.  The NV Wg leadership especially within the Cadet Programs domain are well aware of your antics here.    You seriously need to remove the chip on your shoulder and learn when to be humble.

Speaking as a member of NVWG....involved with CP.........we are aware of his antics.