Wearing a beret with color guard

[ColonelJack]

I still don't understand the antipathy toward berets in the U.S. military and its auxiliaries, or the attitude that they should be reserved for elite units only.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, of course, and your mileage may vary, but ... to me, berets just look silly.

Of course, take that for what it's worth - I prefer the service cap.  Whatever your opinion of it, the service cap looks military.  Anybody can wear a beret (and many do).

It's a silly French hat.  (Donning armor for expected flames.....)

Jack

[Flying Pig]

In fact, with the Marines you could have a Unit Records Clerk and a Scout Sniper standing next to each other in uniform and there wouldn't be anything to denote who is who.  But yet every other service needs badges, special hats, patches and shoulder cords to make sure everyone knows your different. 
With other countries, its all relative.  Look at the French Foreign Legion.  They are issued green berets but its the Kepi Blanc that they all strive for.   So in countries where berets are common, there is some other sort of "hat" that everybody wants.  In the US, people dont wear berets, so therefore its different, which equals "special". 

[abdsp51]

I think there is a lot of animosity towards the beret because of the folks who;

a) don't care about their appearance
b) don't take the time to wear it properly
c) don't take the time to maintain it
d) all of the above

Now I wore a beret for 12 years and I wore it proudly and properly.  If one makes the effort it looks sharp, professional and very military.  Now that I can no longer wear it I would prefer to wear the service cap, as has been mentioned before if the OP wants to draft the proposal and submit it whats the worse someone can do deny it or approve it. 

[Ned]

Coincidentally, I was with a number of other soldiers at drill last Saturday and as we were leaving the restaurant after lunch, someone expressed heartfelt thanks to their diety that we no longer needed to use a mirror and two hands to put our hats on.

And every single one of us cheered.

[jimmydeanno]

Now that I can no longer wear it I would prefer to wear the service cap,

Nobody is stopping you from wearing a beret with your civilian clothes...just sayin'.

[Flying Pig]

My last drill weekend was the weekend berets became mandatory.  I never put it on. I gave it to one of the guys in my platoon.  Of course.... we were still wearing BDUs then too. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Now when it comes to BDUs, it's hard to beat the image of a beret over a PC  that's been in your pocket, even when the beret has been in your pocket.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I was in the Marine Corps. We don't have any special, distinctive unit uniforms for an elite because we are all elite. The Marine Corps has better esprit de corps than any other service yet manages without silly uniform variations that make a unit look like a rag-tag collection of misfits.

Which is why Marine Aviators don't distinguish themselves by wearing Navy "wings of gold," eh?

The "better esprit de corps" is debatable, but tell your story the way you believe is true.  I wasn't a Marine but I had Marines as various family members, including one who fought in Korea (Chosin Reservoir, I think).

Interservice rivalries have been around as long as there have been services.  Canada tried to eliminate it by unifying their services in 1968 and having them all wear the same green uniform (in fact, they were using the USMC as a model).  Sounded good on paper, but it didn't work.  The services are now separate again with distinctive uniforms.

I've sometimes wondered how it would work here...folding the Marines and Coast Guard into the Navy (more like the Royal Marines with the Royal Navy, not the distinct service within the Department of the Navy that the Marines are now), and the Air Force back into the Army.  Two services instead of five.

Berets can look good, if they're "crushed" to fit a person's distinctive head shape.

Field Marshal Bernard Montgomery looked pretty sharp in his...

[Flying Pig]

I was in the Marine Corps. We don't have any special, distinctive unit uniforms for an elite because we are all elite. The Marine Corps has better esprit de corps than any other service yet manages without silly uniform variations that make a unit look like a rag-tag collection of misfits.

The "better esprit de corps" is debatable, but tell your story the way you believe is true. 

I was in the Marines and the Army.  Believe me.....  there is no debate.  Im not saying one is better than the other, blah blah, but I dont think you will find many people who disagree that the Esprit de Corps present within the Marine Corps is legendary.  One a side note.... Montgomery looks like he was the loser in a bad game of Frisbee.

[jimmydeanno]

I was in the Marines and the Army.  Believe me.....  there is no debate.  Im not saying one is better than the other, blah blah, but I dont think you will find many people who disagree that the Esprit de Corps present within the Marine Corps is legendary.

I was sailing in the middle of the Caribbean once.  At our table for dinner was a young Marine LCpl, on his honeymoon with his new wife.  All the way from across the dining room, an older gentlemen noticed a Marine Corps tattoo on his arm.  That older Gentlemen was a WWII era Marine and paid the tab for the LCpl at the end of the week (to the tune of over $1,000) simply because of their brotherhood.

[Flying Pig]

Ive had, on two occasions, people pay for my meals.  I had no idea who they were in the restaurant.  Both times the waitress said someone took care of it and to tell you Semper Fi.  I almost missed a connecting flight once because of a delay and was late to the gate.  I was in my Alphas.  Back when we seemed to travel everywhere in them.  This was pre-9/11.  I was watching the plane taxi away from the gate.  It stopped from being pushed back and the tug pulled it back up to the walkway.  It was actually disconnected from the airplane and they had to reconnect and pull it back in.  A gate manager came over and opened the door and told me the pilot had seen me in the window running down the walk way to the gate and saw me standing in the window.   As I got on the plane, the cockpit door was open (remember those days?)  The pilot leaned out and said "Marines never leave a brother behind." 

Ehhh, not that an Air Force pilot wouldnt have done it for an airman or a Navy pilot wouldnt do it for a sailor.  Just my examples. 

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I have had an older gentleman pay for my meal once and the waitress told me he said stands alone... The 506 INF response when saluted with Currahee, the motto of the 506.

Another time I had one pay my meal and say something, I can't remember, about the 101st airborne.

And I paid for another couples meal seeing his CIB tattooed on his arm, and told the waitress to tell him to follow me, and the waitress came back and said lead the way.

It's nothing new to see or hear of, but with different things in the Army, like Infantry cords and stetsons, it makes it easier to tell who you can rely on because you have the same training. Why? Because an artilleryman doesn't have the same training as an infantryman, and vice versa.

[Flying Pig]

That was my experience.  In the Marines, it was just being a Marine.  Of course, we grunts still dogged the pogues.  In the Army (11B) it was more grunts who stuck together.  The other MOS's were like...."Ehhhh, yeah Im in the Army so what?"   Army grunts seemed to have more of the camaraderie that I saw in the Marines.  Beyond the grunts I didnt see a whole lot of sticking together in the Army. 

It was quite a culture shock to be honest. 

[Sapper168]

That was my experience.  In the Marines, it was just being a Marine.  Of course, we grunts still dogged the pogues.  In the Army (11B) it was more grunts who stuck together.  The other MOS's were like...."Ehhhh, yeah Im in the Army so what?"   Army grunts seemed to have more of the camaraderie that I saw in the Marines.  Beyond the grunts I didnt see a whole lot of sticking together in the Army. 

It was quite a culture shock to be honest.

I don't know, when i was in the army (12B) we had alot of camaraderie.  So much that we ended up in a feud with the 2/75th for a while over an incident on a demo range.   

[manfredvonrichthofen]

There is a lot of brotherhood and camaraderie in the 11 series MOSs. And that is to be expected. No one spends as much time in the dirt, in the woods shooting it up, or kicking in doors. The same sort of thing goes so far as CAP goes, ground teams spend more time together than the rest of CAP members, they spend time in the woods,.and dirt, and they worn out together, and cut up by thorns and what not, and they tend to take care of each other while their doing it, and for that they get a closer bond than the rest of CAP. Mission pilots tend to stay in a hotel or what have you, they get their missions and go about their way.

[Flying Pig]

. Mission pilots tend to stay in a hotel or what have you, they get their missions and go about their way.

Hey man... thats crap.  Have you ever had to walk up two flights of stairs to get ice out of the ice machine only to learn it was broken?  And then have to go fly the next morning?  Or worse yet, fly into an airport and discover the restaurant is closed?  Its not all roses buddy!

Work smarter not harder

[Garibaldi]

. Mission pilots tend to stay in a hotel or what have you, they get their missions and go about their way.

Hey man... thats crap.  Have you ever had to walk up two flights of stairs to get ice out of the ice machine only to learn it was broken?  And then have to go fly the next morning?  Or worse yet, fly into an airport and discover the restaurant is closed?  Its not all roses buddy!

Work smarter not harder

Don't forget when the remote for the TV is absent, or HBO is NOT on the menu. Sometimes, even the continental breakfast is just bagels and jelly.

[Flying Pig]

. Mission pilots tend to stay in a hotel or what have you, they get their missions and go about their way.

Hey man... thats crap.  Have you ever had to walk up two flights of stairs to get ice out of the ice machine only to learn it was broken?  And then have to go fly the next morning?  Or worse yet, fly into an airport and discover the restaurant is closed?  Its not all roses buddy!

Work smarter not harder

Don't forget when the remote for the TV is absent, or HBO is NOT on the menu. Sometimes, even the continental breakfast is just bagels and jelly.

Thats about the time I call the IC and render myself combat ineffective!

[Eclipse]

There is a lot of brotherhood and camaraderie in the 11 series MOSs. And that is to be expected. No one spends as much time in the dirt, in the woods shooting it up, or kicking in doors. The same sort of thing goes so far as CAP goes, ground teams spend more time together than the rest of CAP members, they spend time in the woods,.and dirt, and they worn out together, and cut up by thorns and what not, and they tend to take care of each other while their doing it, and for that they get a closer bond than the rest of CAP. Mission pilots tend to stay in a hotel or what have you, they get their missions and go about their way.

I disagree on the level that this is unique to group ops.

It is true of any segment of an organization that works as a true "team".  I guarantee you I've spent twice as much time in the trenches with a small group of people planning encampments, SARExs, and generally being one of the hands trying to keep the Sisyphus-like monster of CAP moving >up< the hill, no matter how slowly, then the most active ground team in CAP.

This is one of the positives of the sad fact that the same 20% of the membership of any respective wing does >everything<, you see the
same faces, and work with the same people no matter which mission you're performing.

Not to mention that those aircews in a hotel are just as likely to be in the field the next day leading a ground team, and those REMFs have been humping the mission for days of weeks before anyone shows up, many times literally bringing the entire show in on their backs, and by far the
majority of ground teams are just as transient, and usually more so, then the aircrews.

Good on 'ye for building esprit-de-corps, but the team spirit runs through all of us - it's probably one of the major reasons we all put up with CAP most of the time.

[Flying Pig]

I think we are comparing apples and oranges.  Comparing camaraderie between infantry soldiers, and part time volunteers isnt realistic. Until CAP starts living together, pooping together, eating together, sleeping in holes together and deploying for months at a time together it wont ever compare.  If you have never served in the military, its pretty hard to gauge.  No its not a bash on non-vet CAPers.  After 15 yrs as a cop, even on SWAT, I was never as close to the guys like I was after just a couple years in the grunts.