Unfortunate Out of Uniform Picture

[RADIOMAN015]

See:
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20100404/LIVING/304040036

For some reason it appears that the drill team had to wear athletic shoes rather than their black dress shoes in the competition.  (Might be because of the gym floor).

It's too bad the sponsors couldn't find a building that would allow the use of the proper footware.  Of course unless this is a file picture of the cadets at their own squadron practicing.

It's great that the cadets won an award, but the PAO's challenge is to at least take a picture of them in proper uniform.
RM   

[vmstan]

This looks like a job for photoshop!  :angel:

All joking aside, it is too bad, as the gym shoes really break up what I'm sure was an impressive drill.

[Major Lord]

They also listed our Cadet ages as 12-18, silly civvy shoes notwithstanding. Probably a safety officer behind the shoes thing....you'll put your eye out!

Major Lord

[Rotorhead]

It's great that the cadets won an award, but the PAO's challenge is to at least take a picture of them in proper uniform.
RM   

It is more than that; it is the PAO's responsibility to do so.

To submit this photo to a newspaper shows an utter lack of understanding of that fact.

[NCRblues]

I hate to bring this up...but since the topic is headed so nice, i guess i will since i need to get this off my chest.

In the Jan/Mar issue of the always wonderful "volunteer" it was pointed out to me that their was a great article about a ground team having a find. I was very very excited to have this particular person come and find me to speak about cap.(he is not in cap but is very influential here at Whiteman AFB) Until....

He pointed out an unfortunate picture located on page 15....  In this picture is the ground team that was credited for the find. Also in this picture are 2 persons of intrest.

The first and most obvious is the cadet in ABU's, with a ranger rolled cover..... The second and less obvious ( i only discovered it after looking over the photo carefully), is a cadet on the far left. His cover is pulled down so far he has to look up to see...also if you look carefully his pants are being held not by a belt, but by his hands and a little bit of white cloth can be seen under the pants. ( i wont speculate what the white cloth is.....)

It is great what this ground team did, and more coverage of finds and other good things need to be done.....BUT 2 minutes to prepare themselves for the photo could have made this 10x better.

Please don't think i am bashing this ground team....just kind of ashamed that someone (a SM mainly) could allow members to be photographed in such a state....

[Eclipse]

The first and most obvious is the cadet in ABU's, with a ranger rolled cover..... The second and less obvious ( i only discovered it after looking over the photo carefully), is a cadet on the far left. His cover is pulled down so far he has to look up to see...also if you look carefully his pants are being held not by a belt, but by his hands and a little bit of white cloth can be seen under the pants. ( i wont speculate what the white cloth is.....)

That's already been discussed here - that's not a cadet...

[NCRblues]

i did not know it was discussed here...can you show me where so i can see how you came up with "its not a cadet"?

[shorning]

...so i can see how you came up with "its not a cadet"?

Well...the stripes on the sleeve for one...

[SarDragon]

It's great that the cadets won an award, but the PAO's challenge is to at least take a picture of them in proper uniform.
RM   

It is more than that; it is the PAO's responsibility to do so.

To submit this photo to a newspaper shows an utter lack of understanding of that fact.

OK, now we're down the the classic PAO dilemma - use an after the fact grip'n'grin in exactly the right uniform, or one showing the team in action with jacked up shoes?

[EMT-83]

OK, now we're down the the classic PAO dilemma - use an after the fact grip'n'grin in exactly the right uniform, or one showing the team in action with jacked up shoes?

When I read the article, the fact that the cadets traveled six hours to the competition stuck with me more than the sneakers being worn on a gym floor.

[Rotorhead]

It's great that the cadets won an award, but the PAO's challenge is to at least take a picture of them in proper uniform.
RM   

It is more than that; it is the PAO's responsibility to do so.

To submit this photo to a newspaper shows an utter lack of understanding of that fact.

OK, now we're down the the classic PAO dilemma - use an after the fact grip'n'grin in exactly the right uniform, or one showing the team in action with jacked up shoes?

Or crop the shoes from the frame while shooting or later...or come up with a better shot that doesn't show the shoes.

The composition of the shot used isn't very good in the first place.

There were several options other than a posed shot.

[tarheel gumby]

The venue that the MER Cadet Competiton was not chosen by PAO's or the Teams competing. The venue was Fort Pickett, VA a US Army National Guard facility...... those teams had to play by the ARNG's rules. Reading this tread just made me a little hot under the collar. Those cadets worked very hard to get there and that was the first time that they had been to the MER Cadet comp since 2001. I and the rest of their squadron are very proud of them. I don't think the athletic shoes are going to cause the world to end or the planets to fall out of alignment.

[Rotorhead]

The venue that the MER Cadet Competiton was not chosen by PAO's or the Teams competing. The venue was Fort Pickett, VA a US Army National Guard facility...... those teams had to play by the ARNG's rules. Reading this tread just made me a little hot under the collar. Those cadets worked very hard to get there and that was the first time that they had been to the MER Cadet comp since 2001. I and the rest of their squadron are very proud of them. I don't think the athletic shoes are going to cause the world to end or the planets to fall out of alignment.

No, but they are not in uniform.

Their accomplishment is not diminished.

The PAO made the mistake we're discussing. Unless you're him, no reason to become riled up.

[a2capt]

I've been places where our dress shoes and combat boots were not permitted to be worn on gym or similar floors. These cadets probably got caught in that same bit, whoever scoped out the facilities probably got caught with their pants down on that bit.. probably after they booked it, arranged it, or whatever and who knows, probably the morning of the event, or even right when the first appearance was going to be, someone said "they can't wear those in there.. " and well, luckily PT is part of the competition and they had them. Otherwise.. that would have sucked worse.

[jimmydeanno]

In 2006 the VAWG Group 2 Cadet Competition was held on Langley Air Force Base at the base gym.  At the last minute they told us that the cadets would not be able to wear any shoes that had black soles.  As a result, all the teams competed wearing only their black socks.

Sometimes, you just have to roll with the punches and sometimes things don't go as you would like, but that's how it goes. 

[Major Carrales]

The venue that the MER Cadet Competiton was not chosen by PAO's or the Teams competing. The venue was Fort Pickett, VA a US Army National Guard facility...... those teams had to play by the ARNG's rules. Reading this tread just made me a little hot under the collar. Those cadets worked very hard to get there and that was the first time that they had been to the MER Cadet comp since 2001. I and the rest of their squadron are very proud of them. I don't think the athletic shoes are going to cause the world to end or the planets to fall out of alignment.

No, but they are not in uniform.

Their accomplishment is not diminished.

The PAO made the mistake we're discussing. Unless you're him, no reason to become riled up.

Why "edit" history?  A simple addition to the caption would maintain the integrity of the photograph.  Something along the lines of...

"Cadet Color Guard Excels at Competition: Cadets from the ANYTOWN CADET SQUADRON placed favorably in the East Carolina Wing Color Guard Competition on 31 Octember 2010.  The Cadets did an outstanding job despite having to compete in athletic shoes due to the rules of the facility."

I often have issue with the practice, of which even I do, where real Orwellian practices are used to present a false image of CAP.  I hold these feelings as a PAO because there is an element of Intergrity being lost in these practices.

[CadetProgramGuy]

To do somthing like this one of several thing happened:

1:  (and most probable)  The school would not allow the dress shoes on the gym floor, as they would mark up the floor

or

2:  A cadet forgot part of his uniform and the rest dressed the same for uniformity

[Pylon]

Why "edit" history?  A simple addition to the caption would maintain the integrity of the photograph.  Something along the lines of...

"Cadet Color Guard Excels at Competition: Cadets from the ANYTOWN CADET SQUADRON placed favorably in the East Carolina Wing Color Guard Competition on 31 Octember 2010.  The Cadets did an outstanding job despite having to compete in athletic shoes due to the rules of the facility."

I often have issue with the practice, of which even I do, where real Orwellian practices are used to present a false image of CAP.  I hold these feelings as a PAO because there is an element of Intergrity being lost in these practices.

    Welcome the world of public relations.  Nobody is suggesting violating integrity, so I have no idea why you'd bring it into the discussion.

And I have to completely disagree with your suggested approach.  It serves no purpose in educating the public or promoting Civil Air Patrol by mentioning the shoes.  Therefore, leave it out all together.  We only have a limited amount of time to capture the interest of the reader, and mentioning unimportant internal regulatory minutae does not further the goal of a media release or article on the event.

Instead:  Take a better photograph (because let's be honest, that photo with or without the sneakers wasn't winning any awards) from the start, use an angle that doesn't show the footwear (because their footwear isn't integral to the event) and both the objective of promoting the event and maintaining our professional image is solved. 

[Flying Pig]

Having done NCC 3 times, I say bad choice for a photo, however my guess is that they were practicing and not wanting to scuff their shoes prior to the actual performance.  I would hope the Flight Commander wasn't commanding the flight with a stack of papers in his hand during the real performance.

Or, the gym didn't want black military soled shoes on their floor.

[JoeTomasone]

Simple fix, folks, although I don't have the full-sized image to crop from:



This is the picture I would have submitted. 

[CadetProgramGuy]

Having done NCC 3 times, I say bad choice for a photo, however my guess is that they were practicing and not wanting to scuff their shoes prior to the actual performance.  I would hope the Flight Commander wasn't commanding the flight with a stack of papers in his hand during the real performance.

Or, the gym didn't want black military soled shoes on their floor.

didn't think about that one, you're prolly right.......

[Rotorhead]

The venue that the MER Cadet Competiton was not chosen by PAO's or the Teams competing. The venue was Fort Pickett, VA a US Army National Guard facility...... those teams had to play by the ARNG's rules. Reading this tread just made me a little hot under the collar. Those cadets worked very hard to get there and that was the first time that they had been to the MER Cadet comp since 2001. I and the rest of their squadron are very proud of them. I don't think the athletic shoes are going to cause the world to end or the planets to fall out of alignment.

No, but they are not in uniform.

Their accomplishment is not diminished.

The PAO made the mistake we're discussing. Unless you're him, no reason to become riled up.

Why "edit" history?  A simple addition to the caption would maintain the integrity of the photograph.  Something along the lines of...

"Cadet Color Guard Excels at Competition: Cadets from the ANYTOWN CADET SQUADRON placed favorably in the East Carolina Wing Color Guard Competition on 31 Octember 2010.  The Cadets did an outstanding job despite having to compete in athletic shoes due to the rules of the facility."

I often have issue with the practice, of which even I do, where real Orwellian practices are used to present a false image of CAP.  I hold these feelings as a PAO because there is an element of Intergrity being lost in these practices.

Fine, if that bothers you, there are dozens of other ways the photo could have been shot that would have accomplished the same thing and also would have made for a better-composed picture than the one that was published.

Note that every photograph taken by anyone "edits" and/or "interprets" history. 

[rjfoxx]

I was at the MER Competition where this picture was taken.  At the last minute (the Friday night briefing) we were told that the Color Guards and Drill Teams were not allowed to wear regulation shoes on the gym floor.  Several teams went to a local superstore (mine included) to purchase matching sneakers.  This was a local rule and should not distract from the hard work done by ALL of the cadets in this competition.

Congratulations to all of the competitors and especially to to the winning teams...North Carolina for Color Guard and Delaware for Drill Team. :clap:

[Rotorhead]

IThis was a local rule and should not distract from the hard work done by ALL of the cadets in this competition.

Okay, stop that. This thread is not about the cadets' performance.

[Ned]

Several teams went to a local superstore (mine included) to purchase matching sneakers. 

This is a pretty good example of how our Cadet Competition system has gone astray.

Because of a local rule change, the cadets could not compete in their normal uniform shoes.  Obviously the judges were aware of it, and would not have graded cadets down for complying with the rules and wearing whatever athletic shoes they already had.

But this team- like many other teams - felt it was important enought to go out and spend hundreds of dollars to buy identical athletic shoes "to be competitive.".  (And not to mention the time on the eve of the competition when they would otherwise have been doing final prep/review/practice.)

It sounds like over a thousand dollars (over several teams) was poured into the toilet.

A thousand dollars that could have been spent on cadet textbooks, encampment fees, squadron dues, whatever.

Two groups of folks let the cadets down - their immediate senior escorts for not getting together with the other escorts and competition officials and discouraging this kind of expenditure, and those of us at NHQ who have failed to update and change the NCC to discourage this kind of occurance.

Ned Lee

[cnitas]

This is a pretty good example of how our Cadet Competition system has gone astray.

When exactly did it go astray?  As a cadet, I remember our team purchasing matching sneakers for drill comp, so this has been going on for almost 20 years. 

Would you go to a job interview wearing your beater sneakers?  Why not?  If the employer is judging your ability to do your job, then it should not matter what you are wearing.  But you put on your good shoes anyway don't you? And it does actually matter doesn't it?

Drill Comp is the same.  You are not 'required' to have matching shirts, shoes, sweats, etc, but it makes you look better and you feel more confident.   

[Ned]

(Sorry for the thread hijack.)

The problem starts with mission of CC.  It was started as a competition to reinforce local units - back when each squadron was required to have a drill team.

Somehow, over the years, we have lost track of our goal - supporting local units - and the competition has become for it's own sake.  Your typical local unit has no hope of ever being competitive precisely for the reasons you described - things like matching sweats, special purpose uniforms purchased for compeition only and tailored, uniform shoes that never touch pavement unitl the competition, "parent support teams" that iron uniforms and transport them. etc. etc. etc..

Take a look at the NCC winners over the last couple of decades - over 90% are "super-teams" composed of cadets from multiple units within a wing.

And if 95% of the units never even bother to try to put together a team, essentially be definition we are not doing our job of supporting them.  Most region competitions have two or fewer wing drill teams competing!  (Some have none.)

NCC is one of the largest single expenditures of appropriated dollars to support the cadet program.  If you add in the wing and region comps, we are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars spent.  All for an activity that touches less than 2% of the cadets in the country (including all the wing and region comps.)

Is this money well spent?

Or could we come up with some modifications that would allow and encourage  a typical CAP unit to participate and benefit from the additional training?

[davidsinn]

(Sorry for the thread hijack.)

The problem starts with mission of CC.  It was started as a competition to reinforce local units - back when each squadron was required to have a drill team.

Somehow, over the years, we have lost track of our goal - supporting local units - and the competition has become for it's own sake.  Your typical local unit has no hope of ever being competitive precisely for the reasons you described - things like matching sweats, special purpose uniforms purchased for compeition only and tailored, uniform shoes that never touch pavement unitl the competition, "parent support teams" that iron uniforms and transport them. etc. etc. etc..

Take a look at the NCC winners over the last couple of decades - over 90% are "super-teams" composed of cadets from multiple units within a wing.

And if 95% of the units never even bother to try to put together a team, essentially be definition we are not doing our job of supporting them.  Most region competitions have two or fewer wing drill teams competing!  (Some have none.)

NCC is one of the largest single expenditures of appropriated dollars to support the cadet program.  If you add in the wing and region comps, we are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars spent.  All for an activity that touches less than 2% of the cadets in the country (including all the wing and region comps.)

Is this money well spent?

Or could we come up with some modifications that would allow and encourage  a typical CAP unit to participate and benefit from the additional training?

Ditch the glass ceiling for starters. I'm got a cadet that always wanted to compete but we never had enough cadets and she's now a cadet officer and will never be able to compete. It also helps fix the chief for life problem too.

[cnitas]

Meh, Chief for life is fixed by leadership. - Hey Chief, you want to take the Mitchell and promote, or do you want to fall in under C/SSgt Newbie?  No advancement=no staff position.

Perhaps we should start a 'how to fix NCC' thread?

[BillB]

Ned you are 100% correct. Most Squadrons don't have enough cadets to field a drill team It takes several squadrons to come up with the required number. It would also help if Color Guards could have cadet officers up to C/Capt.
And while you're at it, bring back the International Drill Comp with Canada. There can't be that much added cost to the Corporation if the national Drill Comp was followed a couple of daya later with the International Comp. However if the United Kingdom also wanted to take part, I can't see big blue supporting the CAP with airlift.

[Ned]

And while you're at it, bring back the International Drill Comp with Canada.

I actually went to their National Board-equivalent meeting recently to extend exactly that invitation.

Although the Air Cadet League folks seemed interested, the cadet branch of the Canadian Forces is not yet ready to resume the competition.

(The International Drill Competition Trophy is sitting in Ottawa, waiting for the competition to resume some day.)

[Major Carrales]

Why "edit" history?  A simple addition to the caption would maintain the integrity of the photograph.  Something along the lines of...

"Cadet Color Guard Excels at Competition: Cadets from the ANYTOWN CADET SQUADRON placed favorably in the East Carolina Wing Color Guard Competition on 31 Octember 2010.  The Cadets did an outstanding job despite having to compete in athletic shoes due to the rules of the facility."

I often have issue with the practice, of which even I do, where real Orwellian practices are used to present a false image of CAP.  I hold these feelings as a PAO because there is an element of Intergrity being lost in these practices.

    Welcome the world of public relations.  Nobody is suggesting violating integrity, so I have no idea why you'd bring it into the discussion.

And I have to completely disagree with your suggested approach.  It serves no purpose in educating the public or promoting Civil Air Patrol by mentioning the shoes.  Therefore, leave it out all together.  We only have a limited amount of time to capture the interest of the reader, and mentioning unimportant internal regulatory minutae does not further the goal of a media release or article on the event.

Instead:  Take a better photograph (because let's be honest, that photo with or without the sneakers wasn't winning any awards) from the start, use an angle that doesn't show the footwear (because their footwear isn't integral to the event) and both the objective of promoting the event and maintaining our professional image is solved.

While I know people in the "ad" industry make their living selling a five pound turnip for the price of a ten pound one, with no qualms about selling them as radishes to people who don't want turnips...I have to disagree, I think there is an integrity issue in presenting things to the public "as they are not."   (preceeding written in jest...sort of)

I am sure that if the photo was cropped, there would be people here complaining that you "could not see their feet."  And a similar maylay would have ensued.  Even speculations that they were out of step and the like. 

I know presenting things "as they are" is an alien concept, however, I think the appoach of honesty is the better route.  This occasion, the sneakers would have actually drawn more attention to the photo...the caveat on the shoes would have proven an element of integrity.  It meant that an issue, which was seemingly unmitigating in its nature, was mitigated and fessed up to to the best of the ability and people excelled despite it.

In anycase, this discussion is academic and merely resides in the realm of the philosphical anyway.  I will likely be forced to take the Orwellian path myself despite my qualms.

As to those pointing out that they are "out of uniform," then may I suggest those of you pointing this out present a checkbook and pay for the better location to host in the future.

Lastly, they did a fine job...it is a shame that is lost in this schlock of a thread!!!

[shorning]

The International Drill Competition Trophy is sitting in Ottawa...

Out of curiosity, do you know where?

[wuzafuzz]

Oh come on!  If someone takes a GOOD photo of an event, no one will whine about shoes being cropped out.  A tighter crop is not dishonest in any way shape or form and would probably make for a better photo.  Further, it's not necessary to publicly document a less than ideal situation by simultaneously photographing and apologizing for it.

[Major Carrales]

Oh come on!  If someone takes a GOOD photo of an event, no one will whine about shoes being cropped out.  A tighter crop is not dishonest in any way shape or form and would probably make for a better photo.  Further, it's not necessary to publicly document a less than ideal situation by simultaneously photographing and apologizing for it.

Have it your way, Mac.  I will be sure to replace your head with that of William Shatner when your photo comes my way.  After all, "it's not necessary to publicly document a less than ideal situation by simultaneously photographing and apologizing for it." 

[wuzafuzz]

Oh come on!  If someone takes a GOOD photo of an event, no one will whine about shoes being cropped out.  A tighter crop is not dishonest in any way shape or form and would probably make for a better photo.  Further, it's not necessary to publicly document a less than ideal situation by simultaneously photographing and apologizing for it.

Have it your way, Mac.  I will be sure to replace your head with that of William Shatner when your photo comes my way.  After all, "it's not necessary to publicly document a less than ideal situation by simultaneously photographing and apologizing for it."

Nice try.  Inventing a new reality is far different than photographs depicting real events and you know it.  Every news story, press release, or photo essay in existence necessarily omits things.  I am a complete honesty freak, but suggesting that highlighting our strengths is somehow dishonest is going too far. 

We aren't talking about covering up improper behavior, we are talking about making the best of opportunities to honor achievement and present CAP's brand in a positive light. 

[Major Carrales]

Oh come on!  If someone takes a GOOD photo of an event, no one will whine about shoes being cropped out.  A tighter crop is not dishonest in any way shape or form and would probably make for a better photo.  Further, it's not necessary to publicly document a less than ideal situation by simultaneously photographing and apologizing for it.

Have it your way, Mac.  I will be sure to replace your head with that of William Shatner when your photo comes my way.  After all, "it's not necessary to publicly document a less than ideal situation by simultaneously photographing and apologizing for it."

Nice try.  Inventing a new reality is far different than photographs depicting real events and you know it.  Every news story, press release, or photo essay in existence necessarily omits things.  I am a complete honesty freak, but suggesting that highlighting our strengths is somehow dishonest is going too far. 

We aren't talking about covering up improper behavior, we are talking about making the best of opportunities to honor achievement and present CAP's brand in a positive light.

This thread is bunk anyway...I'm not gonna lose "capital" with you over nonsense. 

[Pylon]

This thread is bunk anyway...I'm not gonna lose "capital" with you over nonsense.

This thread is the opposite of "bunk".  This thread is an excellent teachable moment for public affairs officers, both current and future.  The art of framing a photograph and selecting the important elements to focus upon in a story or media release is not bunk.  It's one of the core skills of the trade of public relations.   Rather, I'd say, throwing up your hands and calling the whole discussion worthless when the holes in your argument have been pointed out is "bunk".

Framing a photograph is what photographers do.  It's not their job to capture every detail and the totality of every situation.  If that were the job of journalistic photography, every shot of every news event would be some wide-angle aerial overview of the entire event with every last person and detail squeezed into the frame.   That's not the case, because that's not what journalistic or PR photography is about.  Most great news photos are shot "close in".  And a critical rule of editing photography (that's right, photographs should be edited before they go to the press or public -- it's an expected, understood, and fully ethical part of the trade) is to crop, crop some more, and then crop till it hurts... and then you probably have a good shot.  Similar rules include -- when taking a photograph, stop and take a few steps closer.  Then take a few more.  The idea isn't to show the totality of the situation, but often a detail or moment that represents or captures the essence of the event.    This is textbook public relations.   Nobody is suggesting photoshopping in different footwear, changing the nature of the event, or substituting in heads of William Shatner (which you equated with proper framing or cropping). 

Lastly, before bringing ethics into the discussion, take a moment to examine what those ethical standards actually are.  The Public Relations Society of America has published ethical standards that all of its members sign and adhere to, and for which there is actually a Board of Ethics and Professional Standards to review members' misconduct.   I'll link to the PRSA Ethics Code now:  http://www.prsa.org/aboutprsa/ethics/    I am a member of the PRSA, have been for years, and have signed to those ethical standards.  Taking a shot from a good angle to cut out something silly like sneakers isn't unethical, and rather I'd posit that PAOs who fail to crop out such unnecessary details are actually risking failing at their primary goal, which is to positively portray their client (CAP).

Michael Kieloch, MS in public relations

[Major Carrales]

Whatever... The biggest problem with PAOs today is that they photograph CAP as it is not as opposed to how it is.

Some PAOs take these beautiful shots of CAP personel in aircraft at airshows and those opportunistic moments that shows CAP in an unrealistic pose.  Cropping out the reality...and presenting the "false" to some potential members that sees CAP as what it is not, joins and is disappointed.

We are not PAOs to deliver articles to the NEW YORK TIMES, or to some flashly publication...but rather, informing our local areas of what we really do.  Well written articles that potential members will read and be able to make the decision to join CAP based on it. 

"Teachable momement?!?"  In a PIG'S EYE!!!  This is yet another of those threads where a good was accomplished in CAP and people chose to ridicule the event.  Where some cadets were raked over the methphorical coals when they are neither in the wrong or in a situation of their own accord.

An you people would have us spend millions on people researching and wondering why retention rates are low.

We have to start showing the totality of situations in CAP of we are to attract people who want to do what CAP really does.  CAP Cadets and Officers in "fighter planes," "jumping from choppers," and otherwise coming out in public affairs doing things we don't normally do works against us.

I went to college too...so don't swing around your degrees here because a paper on a wall no more makes and expert than a stamp actually delivers the mail.

Jose E Carrales, Bachelor's in History and English in a University.

[Pylon]

Should I get off your dang'nabbed lawn, too?   

[Major Carrales]

Should I get off your dang'nabbed lawn, too?   

I'm not gonna dignify that with an answer to the NEGATIVE or the POSITIVE.

[Rotorhead]

Whatever... The biggest problem with PAOs today is that they photograph CAP as it is not as opposed to how it is.

Some PAOs take these beautiful shots of CAP personel in aircraft at airshows and those opportunistic moments that shows CAP in an unrealistic pose.  Cropping out the reality...and presenting the "false" to some potential members that sees CAP as what it is not, joins and is disappointed.

We are not PAOs to deliver articles to the NEW YORK TIMES, or to some flashly publication...but rather, informing our local areas of what we really do.  Well written articles that potential members will read and be able to make the decision to join CAP based on it. 

"Teachable momement?!?"  In a PIG'S EYE!!!  This is yet another of those threads where a good was accomplished in CAP and people chose to ridicule the event.  Where some cadets were raked over the methphorical coals when they are neither in the wrong or in a situation of their own accord.

An you people would have us spend millions on people researching and wondering why retention rates are low.

We have to start showing the totality of situations in CAP of we are to attract people who want to do what CAP really does.  CAP Cadets and Officers in "fighter planes," "jumping from choppers," and otherwise coming out in public affairs doing things we don't normally do works against us.

I went to college too...so don't swing around your degrees here because a paper on a wall no more makes and expert than a stamp actually delivers the mail.

Jose E Carrales, Bachelor's in History and English in a University.

You are way out of line here.

If you believe showing cadets out of uniform will help recruit people to CAP because that is 'real," then you clearly don't understand the role of the PAO.

The PAO in the case did a poor job. He sent a poorly-composed photo which also happens to fail to meet NHQ's established standards for photographs.

And this..."We are not PAOs to deliver articles to the NEW YORK TIMES, or to some flashly publication...but rather, informing our local areas of what we really do.  Well written articles that potential members will read and be able to make the decision to join CAP based on it. " This demonstrates a very limited understanding of what the PAOs job actually encompasses.

My "local area" includes a major media market as well as several mid-sized ones. If you think I'm going to lower my standards for any reason, you are 100% wrong. The fact that you advocate doing so... because we aren't delivering material to some "flashy publication"... is frankly frightening.

You go ahead and submit substandard, lower-quality material for publication, if that makes you happy. I'm going to keep doing my best to deliver top-quality photos, video and articles to my Wing's news media.

One more thing.. if the PAO in question had done his job as well as the cadets in the competition did theirs, this thread never would have been created.

[Major Carrales]

Whatever... The biggest problem with PAOs today is that they photograph CAP as it is not as opposed to how it is.

Some PAOs take these beautiful shots of CAP personel in aircraft at airshows and those opportunistic moments that shows CAP in an unrealistic pose.  Cropping out the reality...and presenting the "false" to some potential members that sees CAP as what it is not, joins and is disappointed.

We are not PAOs to deliver articles to the NEW YORK TIMES, or to some flashly publication...but rather, informing our local areas of what we really do.  Well written articles that potential members will read and be able to make the decision to join CAP based on it. 

"Teachable momement?!?"  In a PIG'S EYE!!!  This is yet another of those threads where a good was accomplished in CAP and people chose to ridicule the event.  Where some cadets were raked over the methphorical coals when they are neither in the wrong or in a situation of their own accord.

An you people would have us spend millions on people researching and wondering why retention rates are low.

We have to start showing the totality of situations in CAP of we are to attract people who want to do what CAP really does.  CAP Cadets and Officers in "fighter planes," "jumping from choppers," and otherwise coming out in public affairs doing things we don't normally do works against us.

I went to college too...so don't swing around your degrees here because a paper on a wall no more makes and expert than a stamp actually delivers the mail.

Jose E Carrales, Bachelor's in History and English in a University.

You are way out of line here.

If you believe showing cadets out of uniform will help recruit people to CAP because that is 'real," then you clearly don't understand the role of the PAO.

The PAO in the case did a poor job. He sent a poorly-composed photo which also happens to fail to meet NHQ's established standards for photographs.

And this..."We are not PAOs to deliver articles to the NEW YORK TIMES, or to some flashly publication...but rather, informing our local areas of what we really do.  Well written articles that potential members will read and be able to make the decision to join CAP based on it. " This demonstrates a very limited understanding of what the PAOs job actually encompasses.

My "local area" includes a major media market as well as several mid-sized ones. If you think I'm going to lower my standards for any reason, you are 100% wrong. The fact that you advocate doing so... because we aren't delivering material to some "flashy publication"... is frankly frightening.

You go ahead and submit substandard, lower-quality material for publication, if that makes you happy. I'm going to keep doing my best to deliver top-quality photos, video and articles to my Wing's news media.

One more thing.. if the PAO in question had done his job as well as the cadets in the competition did theirs, this thread never would have been created.

Have you made any attempt to contact the PAO in question, or are you merely berating his/her work here without the benefit of rebuttal?  Go ahead...

"For more information, contact Lt. Clint Parker, public affairs officer, at pao@ashevillecap.org"

Sorry, Lad, but all CAP is local.  The real work come from what you do in the community, how well your squadron represents and executes CAP's Missions.  If we cannot present the reality of those activities and have to be "sneaking around," "editing photos with photoshop" or play "Ministry of Truth" with our articles and photos; then we are liars.

The reality of this photo was that cadets preformed and achieved.  They did it in tennis shoes and were photographed doing it.  The reality of that situation should have been reflected in the acticle as what happened.

I know many in the news media (radio, television and the web) have become so used to "spin" that they forget we are here to report news, that which occurred.  You know, maybe charlatanism is the zeighiest , but I write articles that I intend to give historians of future the real CAP story...not lies.

I don't want you to lower your standards...I want you to raise them.

[tdepp]

This thread is bunk anyway...I'm not gonna lose "capital" with you over nonsense.

This thread is the opposite of "bunk".  This thread is an excellent teachable moment for public affairs officers, both current and future.  The art of framing a photograph and selecting the important elements to focus upon in a story or media release is not bunk.  It's one of the core skills of the trade of public relations.   Rather, I'd say, throwing up your hands and calling the whole discussion worthless when the holes in your argument have been pointed out is "bunk".

Framing a photograph is what photographers do.  It's not their job to capture every detail and the totality of every situation.  If that were the job of journalistic photography, every shot of every news event would be some wide-angle aerial overview of the entire event with every last person and detail squeezed into the frame.   That's not the case, because that's not what journalistic or PR photography is about.  Most great news photos are shot "close in".  And a critical rule of editing photography (that's right, photographs should be edited before they go to the press or public -- it's an expected, understood, and fully ethical part of the trade) is to crop, crop some more, and then crop till it hurts... and then you probably have a good shot.  Similar rules include -- when taking a photograph, stop and take a few steps closer.  Then take a few more.  The idea isn't to show the totality of the situation, but often a detail or moment that represents or captures the essence of the event.    This is textbook public relations.   Nobody is suggesting photoshopping in different footwear, changing the nature of the event, or substituting in heads of William Shatner (which you equated with proper framing or cropping). 

Lastly, before bringing ethics into the discussion, take a moment to examine what those ethical standards actually are.  The Public Relations Society of America has published ethical standards that all of its members sign and adhere to, and for which there is actually a Board of Ethics and Professional Standards to review members' misconduct.   I'll link to the PRSA Ethics Code now:  http://www.prsa.org/aboutprsa/ethics/    I am a member of the PRSA, have been for years, and have signed to those ethical standards.  Taking a shot from a good angle to cut out something silly like sneakers isn't unethical, and rather I'd posit that PAOs who fail to crop out such unnecessary details are actually risking failing at their primary goal, which is to positively portray their client (CAP).

Michael Kieloch, MS in public relations

Michael:

Good points.  I think I can reduce it to this photographic/artistic axiom: less is more.  Good cropping can make a ok photo good and a good photo great.

Todd Epp, slinging the BS learned from a university 

[Rotorhead]

Whatever... The biggest problem with PAOs today is that they photograph CAP as it is not as opposed to how it is.

Some PAOs take these beautiful shots of CAP personel in aircraft at airshows and those opportunistic moments that shows CAP in an unrealistic pose.  Cropping out the reality...and presenting the "false" to some potential members that sees CAP as what it is not, joins and is disappointed.

We are not PAOs to deliver articles to the NEW YORK TIMES, or to some flashly publication...but rather, informing our local areas of what we really do.  Well written articles that potential members will read and be able to make the decision to join CAP based on it. 

"Teachable momement?!?"  In a PIG'S EYE!!!  This is yet another of those threads where a good was accomplished in CAP and people chose to ridicule the event.  Where some cadets were raked over the methphorical coals when they are neither in the wrong or in a situation of their own accord.

An you people would have us spend millions on people researching and wondering why retention rates are low.

We have to start showing the totality of situations in CAP of we are to attract people who want to do what CAP really does.  CAP Cadets and Officers in "fighter planes," "jumping from choppers," and otherwise coming out in public affairs doing things we don't normally do works against us.

I went to college too...so don't swing around your degrees here because a paper on a wall no more makes and expert than a stamp actually delivers the mail.

Jose E Carrales, Bachelor's in History and English in a University.

You are way out of line here.

If you believe showing cadets out of uniform will help recruit people to CAP because that is 'real," then you clearly don't understand the role of the PAO.

The PAO in the case did a poor job. He sent a poorly-composed photo which also happens to fail to meet NHQ's established standards for photographs.

And this..."We are not PAOs to deliver articles to the NEW YORK TIMES, or to some flashly publication...but rather, informing our local areas of what we really do.  Well written articles that potential members will read and be able to make the decision to join CAP based on it. " This demonstrates a very limited understanding of what the PAOs job actually encompasses.

My "local area" includes a major media market as well as several mid-sized ones. If you think I'm going to lower my standards for any reason, you are 100% wrong. The fact that you advocate doing so... because we aren't delivering material to some "flashy publication"... is frankly frightening.

You go ahead and submit substandard, lower-quality material for publication, if that makes you happy. I'm going to keep doing my best to deliver top-quality photos, video and articles to my Wing's news media.

One more thing.. if the PAO in question had done his job as well as the cadets in the competition did theirs, this thread never would have been created.

Have you made any attempt to contact the PAO in question, or are you merely berating his/her work here without the benefit of rebuttal?  Go ahead...

"For more information, contact Lt. Clint Parker, public affairs officer, at pao@ashevillecap.org"

Sorry, Lad, but all CAP is local.  The real work come from what you do in the community, how well your squadron represents and executes CAP's Missions.  If we cannot present the reality of those activities and have to be "sneaking around," "editing photos with photoshop" or play "Ministry of Truth" with our articles and photos; then we are liars.

The reality of this photo was that cadets preformed and achieved.  They did it in tennis shoes and were photographed doing it.  The reality of that situation should have been reflected in the acticle as what happened.

I know many in the news media (radio, television and the web) have become so used to "spin" that they forget we are here to report news, that which occurred.  You know, maybe charlatanism is the zeighiest , but I write articles that I intend to give historians of future the real CAP story...not lies.

I don't want you to lower your standards...I want you to raise them.

We are not here to report news.

That is not the job of the PAO.

We are here to present this organization in the best possible light.

I'm sorry that you don't understand that.

[Flying Pig]

Just be glad someone even took the time to even submit an article.  Coulda cropped out the feet, but I dont think it will make or break someone joining or not.

Robert Steht
Various college courses that dont really amount to anything really.

[Thom]

I think some folks might have a small disconnect here.

A Public Affairs Officer is NOT an Investigative Reporter, nor even by strictest standards a Journalist.

The PAO's function, while never losing touch with the CAP Core Values of Integrity and Excellence, is to present the Corporation, its members, and occasionally the U.S. Air Force, in a positive light to the public.  A PAO prepares materials for dissemination to the Media which document CAP's endeavors and successes.

The difference between a PAO and a Journalist, whose job is to explore every nook and cranny in search of the complete unvarnished truth, is profound.

That said, any PAO in CAP who is censoring the truth to a degree that borders on ethical violations, should remember that their guideposts are the CAP Core Values.  If you cannot maintain Integrity and Excellence while preparing some press release, it is likely better to not release anything than to release something which compromises your ethics.

In truth, that is usually where For-Profit Corporations go wrong with Public Affairs: they lie or conflate when ethically it would have been better to simply remain silent.

I don't believe CAP has a particularly large problem with ethics in Public Affairs, in fact I'd say our biggest PA need is simply to provide better training and guidance (especially guidance!) to our PAOs.


Thom

[tdepp]

I think some folks might have a small disconnect here.

A Public Affairs Officer is NOT an Investigative Reporter, nor even by strictest standards a Journalist.

The PAO's function, while never losing touch with the CAP Core Values of Integrity and Excellence, is to present the Corporation, its members, and occasionally the U.S. Air Force, in a positive light to the public.  A PAO prepares materials for dissemination to the Media which document CAP's endeavors and successes.

The difference between a PAO and a Journalist, whose job is to explore every nook and cranny in search of the complete unvarnished truth, is profound.

That said, any PAO in CAP who is censoring the truth to a degree that borders on ethical violations, should remember that their guideposts are the CAP Core Values.  If you cannot maintain Integrity and Excellence while preparing some press release, it is likely better to not release anything than to release something which compromises your ethics.

In truth, that is usually where For-Profit Corporations go wrong with Public Affairs: they lie or conflate when ethically it would have been better to simply remain silent.

I don't believe CAP has a particularly large problem with ethics in Public Affairs, in fact I'd say our biggest PA need is simply to provide better training and guidance (especially guidance!) to our PAOs.


Thom

Thom: Indeed.  Having been a journalist, a political campaign press secretary, and now, an APAO, your analysis of the roles of journalist v. public relations person is dead on.  Both the journalist and PAO deal in facts; the journalist is obligated to look at all sides of a story and ask difficult questions when necessary; the PAO/public relations person has no credibility if they don't present facts or stretch the truth but they are also there to promote the cause, candidate, or organization. 

The cadet photo posed a difficult situation: While out of uniform, they were ordered to be out of uniform for the competition.  But cropping or a different photo from the waists up might have been a better submission.

But we are Monday morning quarterbacking here.  A group of outstanding cadets got favorable press for themselves and our organization in their local newspaper and its website.  For a volunteer PAO (or even a paid press secretary), that's a "win" in my book and the PAO did a good job.  But a cropped photo or a medium shot or close up that didn't include the tennis shoes would have made a good story and result even better.  Just like Duke winning the national title last night, I'm sure when Coach K looks at the tape in preparation for next year, he'll find some things even they can do better.

It's easy for all of us to criticize how others do their jobs.  As one of my favorite Presidents, Harry Truman, used to say, "Any jackass can kick down a barn but it takes a carpenter to build one."  I'm guessing the PAO who did just about everything right with this story won't make this "mistake" again.  And we should appreciate his/her efforts and results--unless someone else would like to volunteer to take their place or be their assistant. 

[lordmonar]

Should I get off your dang'nabbed lawn, too?   

I'm not gonna dignify that with an answer to the NEGATIVE or the POSITIVE.

You just did. 

[lordmonar]

Just be glad someone even took the time to even submit an article.  Coulda cropped out the feet, but I dont think it will make or break someone joining or not.

Robert Steht
Various college courses that dont really amount to anything really.

+1

[Smokey]

How in the world did this topic end up with folks attacking one another?     

I can't believe the level this has sunk to by those I've come to respect on this forum.

Everyone take a deep breath, count to 10(000)....

Do I really need to get you in a room together for a group hug and kumbaya?

Carry on.........

[SarDragon]

Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock. 

[PhotogPilot]

I've read all your posts, points and counter-points with great interest. I thought I'd toss in my 2 cents worth, take it or leave it. The PAO to me fulfills many rolls, sometimes journalist, sometimes ad-man and sometimes stand-up philosopher (see "History of the World Part I" to see where I'm going here). In regards to this particular photo, there's a lot I can comment on. The composition is weak, the shot from the sideline is very two-dimensional and does not convey the "essence" of the moment. Sorry Maj. C, but I must respectfully disagree with you here. I don't believe honest critique of a photograph deminishes the accomplishment of the cadets, and every photograph is an edit of the reality of the moment. The issue the shoes not withstanding, it's a weak photo.

Before you start with "this shmoe ain't got a clue what he's talking about" let me give you a little background on me. I've been a serious photographer since I was 10 years old (I'm 51 now). While out of broadcasting now, I've got almost 30 years of experience in the field, with jobs including Producer, Director, Engineer, Reporter, and Photographer. I've shot everything from NBA Playoffs, to hurricanes, to perp walks, to chopper FLIR cam duties. With a range of cameras from Bell and Howell BP-70's to Sony Beta Cams, and still cameras ranging from a Minolta SRT-101 to my current Nikon D1x. I've been either a PAO or assistant PAO for most of my 10+ years in CAP. I have a slight clue what good photography is.

Let's look at this PAO for a second. He most likely has no journalism, photography or marketing experience. He probably shot the picture with a point and shoot digital camera like a Coolpix or Canon Sureshot. He may be a lawyer or Home Depot Hardware salesman. He's out there contributing and volunteering his valuble time, and for that I salute him, and his efforts. Skills as a photographer don't come overnight. After 40+ years, I learn something new almost every time I pick up a camera. Honest critique of a single photo is not meant to demean his efforts, or beat the guy up. Believe me, I used to submit my work to Lone Star Emmy and NPPA quarterly contests, and have been savaged, and I'm talking beatdowns that make Simon Cowell look like Mother Theresa.

I would like to see him move closer to action (zoom with your feet, not with your lens), and find an angle that show's these kids determination and focus. Fancy footwork and precision moves can be demonstrated on video very easily, not so easy in a still shot. Still photography seeks to capture a moment that convey's the story, unfortunately, this shot did not do that. To learn to do that reqires pratice, so to this PAO, keep practicing, and thank you for your time and effort.

[Major Carrales]

Should I get off your dang'nabbed lawn, too?   

I'm not gonna dignify that with an answer to the NEGATIVE or the POSITIVE.

You just did. 

Not really, I answered with an ambiguity that was neither negative nor positive.

[Major Carrales]

Sorry folks, but my approach to Public Affairs has yeilded good results in my area.  However, it seems that all that success simply can't exist.  I have already been told here, in not so many words, that I am no Public Affairs Officer (because am trying to be too much a journalist) and we are not here to report the news.  That I simply just can't understand that...and that I "submit low quality substandard articles."

I think...my days...in Public Affairs...are soon to be behind me.   

Well, I guess I had better simply just switch over to Historian.

[RiverAux]

I think most agree that the photo submitted wasn't that great, but the shoes were the least of its problems. 

An important part of a PAOs job is to present the organization in the best light possible.  That doesn't require "unethical behavior".  Part of that is having an awareness that it is generally not a good idea to use photographs that show violations of our own regulations. 

In this case, I wouldn't say that our regulations were really violated as the members involved were following the rules of the event.  So, I wouldn't automatically rule out using photos that showed the shoes. 

If I was editing a CAP publication and the photo was sent to me and it was the absolute best "action" photo available for the event I would probably have decided to not use it since it just shows a jumble of cadets and doesn't really show the skill they have at this event very well.  The shoes wouldn't have been a big factor in this decision since everyone was wearing the same ones and as a group they looked uniform.  This might be one of those few occassions when a grip and grin photo might be preferred. 

[RiverAux]

While I don't think I can think of a single CAP photo that I've used that hasn't been cropped, I don't think that could have saved this particular photo due to the confusing move that they attempted to capture in a single photograph.  Perhaps they may have been able to get a better drill shot from a different angle that could have been cropped to hide the shoes.

I do agree that had that been done and the photo brought here for discussion that someone would have cried foul about missing the feet.  They would have assumed they were cropped out to hide evidence of someone being out of step. 

[JayT]

Sorry folks, but my approach to Public Affairs has yeilded good results in my area.  However, it seems that all that success simply can't exist.  I have already been told here, in not so many words, that I am no Public Affairs Officer (because am trying to be too much a journalist) and we are not here to report the news.  That I simply just can't understand that...and that I "submit low quality substandard articles."

I think...my days...in Public Affairs...are soon to be behind me.   

Well, I guess I had better simply just switch over to Historian.

Major

I don't exactly see what your gripe is. Cropping a photo is hardly 'Ministry of Truth' stuff. The cadets were out of uniform for no fault of their own, and the PAO who released it should of simply cropped out a few pixals. Your solution was to give a detailed answer to why the cadets were wearing white shoes in the caption, but that's a little ridiculous.

Yes, CAP is all local, but a uniform violation like that doesn't need to be spread in any context. A simple croppe job would make CAP, and whatever Air Force or military dude looking at it look better in the eyes of the public.

[tdepp]

I've read all your posts, points and counter-points with great interest. I thought I'd toss in my 2 cents worth, take it or leave it. The PAO to me fulfills many rolls, sometimes journalist, sometimes ad-man and sometimes stand-up philosopher (see "History of the World Part I" to see where I'm going here). In regards to this particular photo, there's a lot I can comment on. The composition is weak, the shot from the sideline is very two-dimensional and does not convey the "essence" of the moment. Sorry Maj. C, but I must respectfully disagree with you here. I don't believe honest critique of a photograph deminishes the accomplishment of the cadets, and every photograph is an edit of the reality of the moment. The issue the shoes not withstanding, it's a weak photo.

Before you start with "this shmoe ain't got a clue what he's talking about" let me give you a little background on me. I've been a serious photographer since I was 10 years old (I'm 51 now). While out of broadcasting now, I've got almost 30 years of experience in the field, with jobs including Producer, Director, Engineer, Reporter, and Photographer. I've shot everything from NBA Playoffs, to hurricanes, to perp walks, to chopper FLIR cam duties. With a range of cameras from Bell and Howell BP-70's to Sony Beta Cams, and still cameras ranging from a Minolta SRT-101 to my current Nikon D1x. I've been either a PAO or assistant PAO for most of my 10+ years in CAP. I have a slight clue what good photography is.

Let's look at this PAO for a second. He most likely has no journalism, photography or marketing experience. He probably shot the picture with a point and shoot digital camera like a Coolpix or Canon Sureshot. He may be a lawyer or Home Depot Hardware salesman. He's out there contributing and volunteering his valuble time, and for that I salute him, and his efforts. Skills as a photographer don't come overnight. After 40+ years, I learn something new almost every time I pick up a camera. Honest critique of a single photo is not meant to demean his efforts, or beat the guy up. Believe me, I used to submit my work to Lone Star Emmy and NPPA quarterly contests, and have been savaged, and I'm talking beatdowns that make Simon Cowell look like Mother Theresa.

I would like to see him move closer to action (zoom with your feet, not with your lens), and find an angle that show's these kids determination and focus. Fancy footwork and precision moves can be demonstrated on video very easily, not so easy in a still shot. Still photography seeks to capture a moment that convey's the story, unfortunately, this shot did not do that. To learn to do that reqires pratice, so to this PAO, keep practicing, and thank you for your time and effort.

PP:
Indeed.  Good analysis and advice.
So, what's the worst thing anyone ever told you about one of your photos or videos you submitted?  As a former TV journalist and manager, believe me, I know what a pack of sharks that can turn into.  But on the other hand, it seems like you took such criticism to heart and determined to be a better photographer.  And as you note, savaging our volunteers is not a way to win friends and influence people and improve their photos.  Sounds like you'd be a great person to put on a photography clinic at a wing or group conference. 
I've been shooting photos for publication since I was in high school and I too am 51.  And every time I take a photo and every class I take, I learn something new.  Plus, even an action photo of cadets at drill team is art, so besides the technical, there's the artistic as well.  And some of that can be taught but some of it is also intuitive.  And everyone has an opinion, even if it is wrong. 

[Bluelakes 13]

When I teach photography for PAO's, I emphasize, IMPLORE, that every photo "published" must be edited.  Each and every one.  I see scores of photos uploaded to websites straight out of the camera.   Those that know me and my work, whether it's NCC or Encampment, know we spend HOURS each night choosing the photos to be published and then editing each one.  As I teach, every photo must tell a story. Unfortunately most PAOs think of photographs as an afterthought.  I am hoping the new curriculum stresses the importance of photos. 

Maj Pabon will videotape my next class in September and share it with the Region PAOs and hopefully it will be passed down the ranks.

James.

[a2capt]

Out of curiosity, to what extent do you use the term "edited"?

Cropping, color correcting I could understand. Changing whats being pictured I might have to say is pushing it. I always take photos at the largest resolution and picture "more" than I need.

[Bluelakes 13]

I will not go into the philosophical debate of what is a photo and what is art. 

I consider my Photoshop skills to be amateurish, but I can definitely add a cover to a cadet that forgot one, flip a ribbon around, or move/remove a badge.  All corrections to avoid lengthy Captalk forum discussions   

Things like color correction, crop, resizing, exposure compensations, etc are not editing, they are normal workflow items that must be done to every photo, especially when shooting raw.

Again, every photo must tell a story....   http://kalemis.com/cap/index.htm