AE Budgeting

[Michael M]

Has anybody created a budget for the "low cost" AEX program or any of the programs.  I am looking for an estimated cost per participant for each module.  I know I can go and price out the items, but historical data would be better.

Same goes for the other AE programs such as Model Rocketry, etc..

[Spike]

Model Rocketry got very expensive, mostly toward the end.  I know it came out to be about $70.00 per Cadet.  But I wrote up a grant for funding, so all was good. 

As for AEX, follow the plans, and you look at spending $20.00 or $25.00 per person.  If the members themselves "chip in", should not be an issue.  My unit did AEX and received our plaque (which hangs in the local school now).

Both are great programs, and if you need to fund raise, do it.  Nothing except actual flying beats these hands on programs!!

[SarDragon]

A bunch of that stuff can be acquired through donations.

My previous AEO got fin foam from a supermarket meat department (large meat trays), and the tubular foam insulation from a forgotten source. That cut way down on the expense.

Creative "begging" helps a lot.

[jimmydeanno]

Haven't done a formal budget for AEX or Model Rocketry.  But we just accomplished the model rocketry program for practically nothing.  We got Alpha Rockets donated, film canisters donated from Walmart (along with alka-seltzer), and constructed both the water bottle rockets and a pneumatic rocket launcher.  We got 35 cadets through the rocketry program for a total out of pocket cost of ~$50.00.

[DC]

Haven't done a formal budget for AEX or Model Rocketry.  But we just accomplished the model rocketry program for practically nothing.  We got Alpha Rockets donated, film canisters donated from Walmart (along with alka-seltzer), and constructed both the water bottle rockets and a pneumatic rocket launcher.  We got 35 cadets through the rocketry program for a total out of pocket cost of ~$50.00.

Doesn't the model rocketry program now require building like five rockets, two alt. propulsion and three solid fuel ones?

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/u_032304074901.pdf

[jimmydeanno]

Haven't done a formal budget for AEX or Model Rocketry.  But we just accomplished the model rocketry program for practically nothing.  We got Alpha Rockets donated, film canisters donated from Walmart (along with alka-seltzer), and constructed both the water bottle rockets and a pneumatic rocket launcher.  We got 35 cadets through the rocketry program for a total out of pocket cost of ~$50.00.

Doesn't the model rocketry program now require building like five rockets, two alt. propulsion and three solid fuel ones?

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/u_032304074901.pdf

Yes
Stage 1 requires:  Two alternate fuel rockets.  We did fizzy flyers and water bottle. (Free)
Stage 2 requires:  Two rockets be built.  We built a few different ones, but they were provided by Wing in preparation for our model rocketry competition.  They were donated to the wing (Free)
Stage 3 requires:  Two rockets be built (or one if dictated by local restrictions).  So we constructed a pneumatic rocket launcher and constructed rockets that carried a payload, powered by air.  The Air Force Base we're on wouldn't permit us to launch actual rockets (something about the engines and the hundreds of thousands of gallons of aviation fuel...). 

Pneumatic launcher = $20 in parts
Equipment to build air rockets = ~$30.00 in parts

Total cost to our unit = ~$50.00 / 35 cadets

[NC Hokie]

Stage 3 requires:  Two rockets be built (or one if dictated by local restrictions).  So we constructed a pneumatic rocket launcher and constructed rockets that carried a payload, powered by air.  The Air Force Base we're on wouldn't permit us to launch actual rockets (something about the engines and the hundreds of thousands of gallons of aviation fuel...).

You only need one rocket for Stage Three.

[jimmydeanno]

You only need one rocket for Stage Three.

There's a difference between whether or not you build a solid fueled rocket or the air powered version:

OR..If the cadet lives in an area where solid-fuel rockets are banned, he/she may
elect to take the Air Power Option. If this is the case, the cadet is required to scratchbuild
a model rocket that works on a commercial launcher (like one of those featured
in the Titan section). This rocket must achieve an altitude of at least 100 feet
and proof must be given by either mathematical calculations or an altitude tracking
device.
d. OR..If the cadet is taking the Air Power Option, he/she must also build a static plastic
model of a rocket that was significant in aerospace history. This rocket and a short
presentation must be made to the squadron.

[NC Hokie]

You only need one rocket for Stage Three.

There's a difference between whether or not you build a solid fueled rocket or the air powered version:

OR..If the cadet lives in an area where solid-fuel rockets are banned, he/she may
elect to take the Air Power Option. If this is the case, the cadet is required to scratchbuild
a model rocket that works on a commercial launcher (like one of those featured
in the Titan section). This rocket must achieve an altitude of at least 100 feet
and proof must be given by either mathematical calculations or an altitude tracking
device.
d. OR..If the cadet is taking the Air Power Option, he/she must also build a static plastic
model of a rocket that was significant in aerospace history. This rocket and a short
presentation must be made to the squadron.

That's a Stage Two requirement according to the information presented on page 2 of Civil Air Patrol Model Rocketry.

[jimmydeanno]

...

Gaah...

The cadet is required to build two model rockets to complete this requirement. One of the rockets must be have two engines that fire in two stages and the other must be capable of carrying a payload.

THE HANDS-ON PHASE
...
c. OR..If the cadet lives in an area where solid-fuel rockets are banned, he/she may
elect to take the Air Power Option. If this is the case, the cadet is required to scratchbuild
a model rocket that works on a commercial launcher (like one of those featured
in the Titan section). This rocket must achieve an altitude of at least 100 feet
and proof must be given by either mathematical calculations or an altitude tracking
device.
d. OR..If the cadet is taking the Air Power Option, he/she must also build a static plastic
model of a rocket that was significant in aerospace history. This rocket and a short
presentation must be made to the squadron.
...

also listed in Phase II

3. THE HANDS-ON PHASE
The cadet is required to build a commercial, single-stage, solid-fuel model rocket, or if living
in an area where model rockets are banned, launch an air-powered rocket. (See the
section on TITAN AIR-POWER OPTION at the end) The cadet is also required to build a
single stage model rocket that is a replica of one that was part of aerospace history.

So when we did it, we were able to do the Phase II requirements for the "non-air powered" because we had our rocketry competition away from the unit.  So, since they did the air-powered option in Phase III they had to build the replica's then...

[NC Hokie]

Gaah...

Is this a commentary about the apparent contradiction between my quote and your quotes?  The quotes that come from the same publication?

Anyhow, to the topic at hand....

We completed AEX at my squadron this past year and, although we didn't keep detailed records, we managed to get 15 cadets done for under $200.00, with most of that being fuel for trips.  Here's what we did:

Lost on the Moon - NO COST
Goddard Rocket - less than $2.00 per cadet
Fizzy Flyer - less than $2.00 per cadet
Radio Control Flight Simulator - cost of fuel to local R/C club's field, although a good sim can be purchased for $100.00
Electric Radio Control Model Aircraft - cost of fuel to local R/C club's field
Cool Cartographics - NO COST (state aeronautical charts are free)
Military Airshow - cost of fuel

We've only done the first two stages of the model rocketry program, but I was able to find plenty of appropriate rocket/engine combos for less than $7.00 per person.

[jimmydeanno]

Gaah...

Is this a commentary about the apparent contradiction between my quote and your quotes?  The quotes that come from the same publication?

Yes.  Nothing incendiary about it.  Just confusion...

[helper]

Has anybody created a budget for the "low cost" AEX program or any of the programs.  ...

Same goes for the other AE programs such as Model Rocketry, etc..

I had the same problem as others; the cost of the Model Rocket program. Many of my cadets were low income so I had to think outside the box to help them earn the rocketry badge. The non-fueled rockets were not the problem. It was the 3 solid-fueled rockets that were beyond their ability to purchase.

My solution was to build the rocket's from scratch using FedEx packaging materials. My cost was for reusable tools like scissors, hot glue guns, etc. The engines were bought in bulk packs from Internet wholesalers. My cost per cadet for the 3 rockets was less than $10.

The launcher was a steel rod stuck in the ground powered by a car battery (former heavy duty outdoor extension cord connected to alligator clips).

I know another squadron commander who picked up some cheap discards at a thrift store to create a wind tunnel. He also put the MS Flight Sim inside a plywood cutout to create an airplane cockpit that attracts kids at airshows.

It does take time & creative thinking but the AE activities can be done cheep.

Maybe others can chime in with more ideas that they have used to solve the AE cost problem.


FYI: I posted a scrap paper rocket photo in the "Model Rocketry" thread.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=8362.msg156842#msg156842