Will CAP ever give GSAR serious attention?

[Flying Pig]

Those who wish to grind an ax might want to start with the fact that CAP is not a first-responder agency.

When I hear "CAP is not a first responder", it annoys me the same as "CAP is only volunteers" annoys me. It's an excuse for not being on the ball. And the more we repeat it the more true it will (has) become true.
The idea of being a "first responder" has nothing to do with the "golden hour", but everything to do with promptness and a sense of urgency in responding.

It has nothing to do with the desires or mindset of the organization.  It has to do with their KNOWN capabilities and a measurable known response.  A first responder is the person who is called and has a duty and capability to respond immediately when the incident happens.  CAP isnt a first responder.  Sorry.  Guess how we do ELT Searches in my 6017 sq. mile county?  The Sheriff gets the call, dispatch calls out to the hangar.  As a Deputy Sheriff Pilot, I call the CAP Group Commander and give him a heads up that he will be getting call, only because I am a CAP member.  If I were not, nobody from the S.O. would call CAP.  Then I go up in the Sheriffs aircraft and Wing Null until a CAP aircraft launches a few hours later.  On top of that, I am in the process of getting a Becker for my work plane.  Who is the first responder in my county?  The Sheriff is.  CAP is a resource.  The Sheriff isn't even required to use them.

Now there may be specific areas in the US that may treat CAP as a first responder based on local resource availabilities, but CAP as an organization is not.

[Short Field]

3.  Ramp up the Ground Branch Director training qualifications significantly.  As I said, we're probably not going to be running any missions ourselves, but in order to conduct decent CAP exercises our GBDs need to know more about ground SAR planning than they do now.  We need GBDs that know more than how to hide an ELT. 

Planning is done in the Planning Section, not in the Ops Section by the Branch Directors.  Make attendance at the 5 day Inland SAR Planning Course mandantory for PSCs.  Currently, a  CAP PSC is just a quick sign-off on the way to IC - which might explain why so many of our ICs don't know how to plan a search.

[Mustang]

I think CAP would do better to form teams of ALOs (Air Liason Officers) who are embedded with exiting ground teams and coordinate air to ground operations.

An excellent idea!

[Eclipse]

3.  Ramp up the Ground Branch Director training qualifications significantly.  As I said, we're probably not going to be running any missions ourselves, but in order to conduct decent CAP exercises our GBDs need to know more about ground SAR planning than they do now.  We need GBDs that know more than how to hide an ELT. 

Planning is done in the Planning Section, not in the Ops Section by the Branch Directors.  Make attendance at the 5 day Inland SAR Planning Course mandantory for PSCs.  Currently, a  CAP PSC is just a quick sign-off on the way to IC - which might explain why so many of our ICs don't know how to plan a search.

Not in my neck, however the failure to "stay in your lane" is a problem with planning where I play also.

Planning is "next", and should not be involved in tactics, Branch Directors are "now", and should stay out of "next".  The two meet
at the OSC and where inputs and information are requested.

[SarMaster]

Right on Reference the PSC.... I don't think the PSC SQTR does any justice.. It really doesn't have anything about mission planning, Intel, Situational awareness... and so on. Defiantly Inland SAR School should be required.

[Flying Pig]

When/Where is the Inland SAR school?

[isuhawkeye]

The inland SAR school is a great program, but it may not be the end all and be all.  I would recommend a few programs.

1.  Position specific training

http://www.vdem.state.va.us/train/trainresources/NIMS%20ICS_Position_Specific_Training_Annoucement_6_30_09.doc

2.  Search theory training

http://www.nasar.org/nasar/course.php?id=26

http://www.eri-online.com/Managing_Land_Search_Operat.php

http://www.uscg.mil/tcyorktown/Ops/SAR/Inland/inland.asp

PS.  Flotilla 4 Coast Guard Auxiliary will be hosting the inland SAR course in June

[Short Field]

1. The FY10 National Search and Rescue School Inland SAR Planning Course schedule is listed below.
Number Dates Location
(Specific locations are subject to change)
Application
Deadline
10-01 19 – 23 Oct 09 Arcadia NP, ME 07 Sep 09
10-02 16 – 20 Nov 09 Savannah, GA 05 Oct 09
10-03 07 – 11 Dec 09 San Luis Obispo, CA 02 Nov 09
10-04 11 – 15 Jan 10 Ft Sam Houston (San Antonio), TX 01 Dec 09
10-05 08 – 12 Feb 10 Jackson, TN 04 Jan 10
10-06 01 – 05 Mar 10 Santa Fe, NM 19 Jan 10
10-07 19 – 23 Apr 10 TRACEN Yorktown, VA 15 Mar 10
10-08 10 – 14 May 10 Harrisburg, PA 29 Mar 10
10-09 21 – 25 Jun 10 Des Moines, IA 04 May 10
10-10 12 – 16 Jul 10 Salt Lake City, UT 01 Jun 10
10-11 02 – 06 Aug 10 Duluth, MN 28 Jun 10
10-12 20 – 24 Sep 10 Buffalo, NY 13 Aug 10
2. The Inland SAR planning class is not for beginners. It is an advanced course for experienced on-scene
decision makers, planners, operations leaders, and direct support staff members. It presents mathematically
based search planning tools with solid theoretical underpinnings, along with some allied topics, focused on
improving overall SAR response and success.
3. Openings in each class are limited and must be shared between a variety of agencies and student
backgrounds, experience levels, and organizational tiers. While the school accepts applications directly, it is
preferred the state or agency SAR Coordinator review applications to make certain he/she is kept abreast of
what is happening in the state and to ensure the right people are selected.
a. Application deadlines are approximately 40 - 45 days before class start dates. A welcome package will
be sent to confirm attendance approximately 30 days before class start dates and students must firmly
commit to attend at that time. Interested agencies should contact the school early to reserve quotas.
b. CAP members must apply through their wing training office to CAP National HQ only.

[Eclipse]

Something else needs to be said here as well - the SAR world is a Wondrous, Magical place filled primarily with people who have some sort of mental deficiency in that they do things both professionally and in a volunteer capacity that most "sane" people would not consider as an option.

Whether its running into a burning building, enjoying walking into a dark alley alone, or just standing on a corner making sure no one steals the street signs, when you could be home warm, watching Desperate Housewives, and updating your FaceSpace status, there's room for everyone, but just like high-school plays, only a few kids get to be on stage, and the rest play important roles behind the scenes in stagecraft.

Recognizing and embracing your place in the universe and the "Grande Scheme" is an important character building step for young people, and a sanity-check for adults.

Believing you can cowboy around the world "saving people" because you have a First Aid card and a tactical vest, when professionals recognize the situation as treacherous and lethal, just means you don't "get it" (...fools rush in, where angels fear to tread).  We all know these guys - a car full of gear, ten different windbreakers, and the first on scene for anything...except their formalized training is minimal, real-world experience even less, and their interpersonal skills?  Well...

It also means that you will likely have a short, or shortened career in CAP, which is conservative by nature, constricted in some cases by law, and always, always, disdains people who write checks they have no chance of cashing.

However, understanding that some things are out of reasonable reach, and working on what you can do, puts you in a position of actually doing some good, versus constantly wailing and gnashing teeth about what you can't do.

[RiverAux]

Once again, can we keep on topic?  We've got other "CAP is not a first responder" threads and once again this is not a "Why won't others call us thread?"

It is about the approach CAP takes towards ground SAR training and related issues. 

[Major Carrales]

Once again, can we keep on topic?  We've got other "CAP is not a first responder" threads and once again this is not a "Why won't others call us thread?"

It is about the approach CAP takes towards ground SAR training and related issues.

Give it up...the populace wants to discuss what they want to.  No need to frustrate yourself.  I say that with concern for your mental e-health.


The fact is that without significant funding and internal "mandate" of units to have effective ground team assets they will not develop beyond what is possible.

There are many Ground Teams in operation that are the result of clear diligence from dedicated CAP Officers (and cadets, sorry to those that seem to find cadets repugnant...but they do and can serve a purpose) who have built up trailers full of deployable CAP assets.

With no champions to guide the process and no resources the limit is well places.  Only a networking of GT folk in the full operation of their programs can develop the necessary gravitas to get national on the bandwagon.

[RiverAux]

The fact is that without significant funding and internal "mandate" of units to have effective ground team assets they will not develop beyond what is possible.

Thats the thing that irritates me -- it really wouldn't take any significant amount of money to make a huge difference in the GT program.  Even in CAP where money isn't exactly overflowing,  GSAR training costs almost nothing compared to the amount of money spent on just ferrying aircraft to and from SAREXs.   

There are many Ground Teams in operation that are the result of clear diligence from dedicated CAP Officers (and cadets, sorry to those that seem to find cadets repugnant...but they do and can serve a purpose)

You are definetely right about that. 

It is just frustrating that we're not really all that far off at a national level from what we would need to do to become the premier non-technical GSAR resource in most of the US.

But, I'm pretty confident that the pilots are eventually going to realize that the best way to get air sorties is by getting the locals used to calling in CAP ground teams.   

[N Harmon]

It is just frustrating that we're not really all that far off at a national level from what we would need to do to become the premier non-technical GSAR resource in most of the US.

I think there in lies the problem. Like so many other things in CAP, success is best attained by starting locally and then expanding outward. If you try to change things at a national level first, you will find a lot of resistance like seen in this thread.

A few years back my squadron started on the road to becoming as best a non-technical air and ground SAR resource as we possibly could be, within the regulatory and legal limitations of CAP. But even without the regulations and laws, there still existed many logistical and operational challenges we had to overcome. As an example, one was streamlining our notification process by using a calling service (www.call-em-all.com) instead of a phone tree.

And so far we have had a lot of success. We have been called upon to assist in the early stage of a missing persons search. And just last year we responded quickly to requests for aerial photographs. That mission was featured in the CAP news.

So, it can be done. CAP should not stand for ES personnel who, when called upon for a mission, go home to launder their uniform and maybe grab a bite to eat before heading out to the airport...because, "we're not first responders so you can't expect me to drop everything for a mission" (actual excuse given by a CAP member). It's understandable if you can't be available, but if you commit yourself to being available then [darn]it, show some sense of purpose.

Also, other units in Michigan Wing have similarly ramped up their capabilities and are now looking at combining into a wing-wide response capability. Our standard is to have an aircraft in the air and a ground team rolling within an hour of receiving the call. Yes there will be challenges to overcome to make that reality, and we're working on them. But everybody agrees it can be done, and that simple fact makes all the difference. It would be a nightmare to try something like this on a national level at this time. But, maybe some day.

[RiverAux]

I agree that individual units have a lot of leeway to develop an outstanding GSAR program and with enough effort can probably get involved with the local agencies running GSAR missions. 

However, there are still some national and wing-level issues that stunt such efforts which I brought up in the first post.  The local unit is still ultimately at their mercy since they have the power to approve mission requests from outside agencies and have the power of the purse in regards to whether you can get funding to do local training exercises. 

Even if all the changes I recommend were made, it would still ultimately fall upon the squadron to do the hard work.  It will always be that way.  But, NHQ and Wing can certainly make it easier for them. 

[NavLT]

I guess the whole point of this thread is that national has created a function of Ground Search and Rescue in our SAR mission (IE having GBD, GTL, GTM etc in our quals) but lacks the drive to ensure that we adequately train in this area, work with local governments to get used for this function.

I see the argument about top down or bottom up as kind of silly as successsfull organizations know it takes both.

CAP will never be taken seriously in the ground SAR universe when the majority of the training is light and the missions rarely make you use the 72 hour pack/skills.  The cadet part of this has more meaning to CAP than the rest of the world.  In Virginia the state will certifiy a 16 year old to be a state Field team member and they get used by law enforcement on all kinds of missions with little or no hesitation because they are state certified.

If CAP wanted to grow into GSAR then they would work more on getting reciprocity with NSAR for our quals (which would mean improving our quals and testing).  They would establish more MOUs at the wing level for call outs and they would probably look at getting a MD on national staff to allow us to function as  BLS agency in states.  None of which is fast or easy but neither was putting a man on the moon but we did it.....

V/R
LT J.

[arajca]

If CAP wanted to grow into GSAR then they would work more on getting reciprocity with NSAR for our quals (which would mean improving our quals and testing).  They would establish more MOUs at the wing level for call outs and they would probably look at getting a MD on national staff to allow us to function as  BLS agency in states.  None of which is fast or easy but neither was putting a man on the moon but we did it.....

V/R
LT J.

CAP has an MD on National Staff. The problem is every state has different requirements and allowances for EMT's. In some states, it further broken down into regions or counties having varied requirements. This makes it virtually impossible for CAP to have a nationwide EMS program. This discussion has taken place many times on CAPTalk, so there is no need to rehash it again here.

Putting a man on the moon took a HUGE amount of resources that CAP does not have.

[NC Hokie]

Putting a man on the moon took a HUGE amount of resources that CAP does not have.

You're right, but more than that it took the WILL to make it happen. The question is does CAP have the will to embrace the GSAR role and all it entails (training, credentialing, etc.)?

[tsrup]

I think CAP's capabilities for GSAR are now outdated.  We have been replaced by technology, and lets face it, the tech does a better job.  I'm sure we all want to go back in time to the hay days where CAP were SAR studs, bearing the weather and giving their all to find a lost aircraft.  But we don't need that anymore, and this is a good thing.  With GPS the time it takes to find an aircraft is reduced and in the end this may be a bad thing for CAP, but this is a good thing for the end user (the crashed pilot).

Instead of complaining about how much we don't get used for GSAR anymore, let's start working with our communities and taking this as an opportunity to broaden our horizons.  Maybe SAREXs don't need to be exclusively ELT searches anymore.  Maybe we need to start enhancing our training for our Disaster Relief missions or Missing Person searches.  These are the new face of CAP ground teams.  The sooner we embrace that the better.   

-Oh and the idea about individual augments for Air/Ground work was a genius idea, help meld our very capable air resources with the people who actually do do the ropework or are EMT's

[arajca]

Instead of complaining about how much we don't get used for GSAR anymore, let's start working with our communities and taking this as an opportunity to broaden our horizons.  Maybe SAREXs don't need to be exclusively ELT searches anymore.  Maybe we need to start enhancing our training for our Disaster Relief missions or Missing Person searches.  These are the new face of CAP ground teams.  The sooner we embrace that the better. 

IIRC, after COWG's SAREval last year, the AF said they wanted only about 20% of the sorties to be SAR...

Unfortunately, most of the ground leaders can't see the ES encompasses more than SAR. anymore than many pilots can't see that there is a non-flying role for CAP.

Head, Wall. Wall, Head. Play Nice.

[RADIOMAN015]

I don't think CAP really sees this as a mission growth area in its' current form.  There seems to be more emphasis on training with Red Cross on disaster assessment, and also CERT training/membership locally.

There are some very dedicated & knowledgeable volunteers in my wing who do there very best to train (primarily) cadets, with some senior member participation.   I personally think it is a lot of (good)training but at least in our wing, unlikely to result in any call out for the typical missions listed in the current SQRT -- So I don't want to spend all that time in training .    HOWEVER, from a radio communications standpoint, any time an aircraft is flying on a mission there's a need for radio communications support

Some wings are also looking for so called "forward air controllers" that will be radio operators & mission management personnel that will deploy into an area to coordinate CAP aerial response for a local community or county/counties area. 

I think it is easier to manage an air operations versus a ground operations, when you take everything into consideration.   It looks more high tech also when CAP aircraft are flying around with cameras, etc.
RM