Earthquake in Haiti

[Spike]

At the Base, we (CAP) donated blood this week, and helped pack out pallets of water from the local community in coordination with the red cross and DoD blood program.  The water flew out on transport yesterday (to Puerto Rico) and our blood is most likely getting packaged as I write this.

As far as the military is concerned, this is the most CAP can provide in my area.  We stacked cases of water on pallets, wrapped them in plastic, inserted the "help form the United States" paper and moved on to the next pallet.

After donating blood, we ate cookies and drank orange juice.  I feel like I helped, and need not do any more.   

[DG]

Heres a fact... CAP IS FULL OF WANNABEE'S!   We will never be looked at serioulsy by anybody... Were just a buch of kids that wear orange scarfs and old farts that fly our planes.   Worthless orginization.. We cant even support out own people! How the hell are we going to support another country. We dont have logistical support to run a 3 day REDCAP...Now you want to go to a 3rd World country... Fools!   CAP is a complete waste of time!  Look at Katrina... We self deployed to conduct 'RECON'...then when we went to the State EOC with  our 'Reports' they looked at us like fools abd said 'Who the hell are you'.  Or in Florida Durring Charlie when the cap guys showed up they told them to 'Sit in a corner'  and they said 'Oh look...the boyscouts are here'   CAP will NEVER understand Emergency Managment..EVER!  Knobody is or will ever take CAP seriously unless we lose the Cadets and the arrogant morons and listen to the professionals....


Fools!

Speak for yourself.

[DG]

Ok...Here we go.

I have been in CAP 19 years, as a Cadet and Senior.  This organization has gone through ups and downs....a handfull of members have real world experience, Military, Federal, State...and so on.  But the vast majority of CAP members are are own worst enemy.  National HQ needs to start to educate the members on Emergency Management and how the 'Real World' works.  If not we are going to continue to dig ourselves deeper.  I have been on many disasters in the Fire Service and Emergency Mgt in a leadership capacity.  For the most part when CAP shows up to an incident , Our appearance is not up to par...We think we are the 'Authority' in anything military related, and when asked to step up to the plate we regularly fall on our face...   There are many Wings that are simply 'Banned' from any SAR or DR work in their State.    We need to become more professional , and listen to the Emergency Managers trying to help us.  But some (most)  just don't get it!  Our future is in disaster ops..... We need to let the ego's go and start to learn! 


Regards

NWCG Type I COM-L
FEMA Type II Incident Commander
Certified Emergency Manager
Fire Service Officer
Paramedic

But again... I may not have any real word experience...

Is there some way we can communicate to FEMA about this guy?

Is this who thay want taking on the position of an IC?

[mikebank]

I am a fool because I participate in a nationally recognized and congressionally charted volunteer organization? I am a fool somehow, because we have a cadet program that ranks amongst the best youth organizations in the world?

How would "ditching" the cadet program help make the professionals "take us seriously"??

The reason that some of the professionals do not like cap, is because of people like you. You slander and smear members that give up their time and personal life to better the nation. If you ever listen (which I doubt you do) to any professional organization/military/police/fire/ems, they say all the time volunteer organizations like cap are a god send. Caps current detractors point to some incidents during Katrina, yet they have no answer when told if we did such a poor job, why did cap receive thanks from 2 state governors, numerous military generals and leaders, tens (if not hundred or more) members of congress. Why if cap was doing such a poor job all around, did we have not a single bad moment on every national news channel and website?

The only reason you are saying this is because you get to hide behind a screen name. If we were in person, you would not be calling me, or anyone else for that matter, a fool.

You are the joke here.

I agree, I'm sure they are proud of him in his squadron, If he is in one.

[DG]

MESSAGE FROM SECRETARY NAPOLITANO: THE DEPARTMENT'S RESPONSE IN HAITI

January 15, 2010
 
The Department's Response in Haiti
 
Dear Colleagues,
 
The great tragedy unfolding in Haiti has led to an outpouring of support here at home and around the world.
 
As a Department, we are moving rapidly to support the search, rescue, and relief efforts in Haiti. The U.S. Coast Guard, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), and Customs and Border Protection (CBP) are leading DHS actions to support the larger assistance effort. 
 
Four Coast Guard cutters have arrived in Haiti, in addition to a variety of Coast Guard assets that were already in the area to support military air traffic control, conduct damage assessments and rescue people in need of assistance.

FEMA continues to work closely with the State Department and USAID, who are leading the U.S. federal response, while coordinating the deployment of state and local Urban Search and Rescue Teams from across the country to Haiti.

CBP has provided aircraft to support response efforts.
 
The rebuilding process for the people of Haiti will undoubtedly be extremely difficult. As DHS employees, many of you are already contributing to the response effort. If you are interested in providing additional support to those in need, you can visit www.whitehouse.gov/haitiearthquake to make a monetary contribution. You can also make a $10 donation to the Red Cross simply by texting the word "Haiti" to the number "90999" from your mobile phone.
 
For individuals seeking information about family members in Haiti, the State Department has set up a toll free number, (888) 407-4747.
 
Thank you again for your service to DHS and to our Nation. Working together, our Department is making a difference for the people of Haiti during this time of tragedy.
 
Yours very truly,
   
Janet Napolitano
Secretary

[SarMaster]

Its time for CAP to realize that they are NOT the athority on SAR / DR and they need to get a clue before  we make bigger fools of ourselvs. It seems that the professionals who do this every day are ignored by CAP leadership.  We should learn from our mistakes (Katrina) and better equip and train ourselvs for the mission.   Untill then we should prepare to take a back seat unless your all for making us look more unprofessional.  I have seen it too many times when CAP is egar to help but shows up and makes it worse. I hate to bash an orginization I am part of...and it is not my intent... We all need to become more professional or its going to become much worse.

[NC Hokie]

Its time for CAP to realize that they are NOT the athority on SAR / DR and they need to get a clue before  we make bigger fools of ourselvs. It seems that the professionals who do this every day are ignored by CAP leadership.  We should learn from our mistakes (Katrina) and better equip and train ourselvs for the mission.   Untill then we should prepare to take a back seat unless your all for making us look more unprofessional.  I have seen it too many times when CAP is egar to help but shows up and makes it worse. I hate to bash an orginization I am part of...and it is not my intent... We all need to become more professional or its going to become much worse.

What are you doing to make CAP better in SAR/DR and what practical suggestions do you have for those of us that want to "better equip and train ourselves for the mission" and "become more professional?"

[Rotorhead]

Would something like the 7.0 in Hati ever prompt the government to ask for CAP's help in a foriegn country?
Thanks

No, nor should it.

[Rotorhead]

Heres a fact... CAP IS FULL OF WANNABEE'S!   We will never be looked at serioulsy by anybody... Were just a buch of kids that wear orange scarfs and old farts that fly our planes.   Worthless orginization..

No one's forcing you to be a member. You can leave at any time.

Of course, if you are, you could work to fix the problem instead of whining.

[Ned]

I hate to bash an organization I am part of...and it is not my intent...

It seems like an odd statement for a guy who spends most of his posts bashing CAP, but I'll take you at your word.  Let me help you stop bashing CAP.

First:

Its time for CAP to realize that they are NOT the athority on SAR / DR and they need to get a clue before  we make bigger fools of ourselves.

This is a classic strawman argument.  No one has ever said that CAP is "the athority [sic] on SAR/DR".  Such a statement would be patently specious and false.  Which is why it is pretty easy for you to "disprove it."  I would note that the only person who has used the word "fool" in this thread is you.  That means something, but I'll let you puzzle that one out.

One way to stop bashing CAP  is to avoid using logical fallacies when posting about CAP.

Second:

It seems that the professionals who do this every day are ignored by CAP leadership.

This is a conclusionary statement devoid of facts.  You have already told us that - by a remarkable coincidence - you are a professional firefighter/medic who presumably "does this every day."  What specific recommendations did you make to CAP leadership that were ignored?  What specific recommendations made by others were ignored?  Please be specific.  (Also note that disagreeing with a recommendation is not the same thing as ignoring it.)

Avoiding making conclusionary statements devoid of facts is another way to avoid bashing CAP.

Third:

We should learn from our mistakes (Katrina) and better equip and train ourselves for the mission. 

This is a statement premised on a false assumption - that CAP has not somehow "learned from Katrina."

Others have posted the link to the detailed and highly critical AAR CAP did of our performance in the aftermath of Katrina.  Mistakes we clearly identified and corrective actions suggested.  What part of that is not "learning from out mistakes?"

Every major organization related to the DR effort did their own AAR.  I haven't read them all, but I'll wager, every organization made one or more errors and has also identified areas for improvement in things like equipment, training, and organization.


Also another strawman argument snuck in there - that somehow CAP does not think we need more equipment and training to perform DR.  That is certainly not CAP's official position, nor is it a fair summary of what anyone has said on this thread.  Of course we could use more training and equipment.  But it is a question of resources.  More equipment is more money.  Nobody seems to be offering to give us significant amounts of equipment.  There does not appear to be a reasonable expectation of larger appropriations from Congress for such equipment, nor does there appear to be a groundswell of sentiment suggesting that our dues be significantly raised to purchase more equipment.

Perhaps your agency would like to donate significant amounts of equipment?


Avoiding expressing false assumptions is still another way to avoid bashing CAP.

Fourth:

Until then we should prepare to take a back seat unless your all for making us look more unprofessional.

Strawman, again.  No one has ever proposed that CAP would be the lead agency in a DR situation.  I suspect that means we will always be in the "back seat".



Well, overall this is good news.  Assuming that you really want to avoid bashing CAP, this will turn out to be surprisingly easy for you.

Just avoid the false assumptions and logical fallacies, and you should do fine.  I sincerely wish you luck in this endeavor.


Thank you for your service.

[heliodoc]

Here's a suggestion

Train to the Federal standards set out by FEMA, NASAR, wildland fire standards, heck even the fire dept.

This whole argument with SarMaster....welll it's really going nowhere

Face it...CAP needs ALOT of face time with the DR and Emergency Management world ...more than the feel good stuff written in the Volunteer

Facts is.... where IS CAP's AAR's in LLIS .gov?  I personally have not been there lately...Prove to me CAP EVEN uses this Federal Guv sponsored site

Facts is.......CAP needs to puts AAR's on its OWN website(s) look at the wildland fire websites..accy investos, SAFECOMS

Look it up for yourselves.....bashing each other on this site does NOTHING for training......  CAP is good for search and some recovery operations...but to think we are going to zoom in with C182T G1000's and GA-8's w/ ARCHER everytime a DR mission goes up ...wellllll in know very well where I am at ARCHER GA8 and even training the G1000 will NEVER reach a potential that CAP wants or could even envision without more training dollars, practice missions, tabletops, drills, functional, and large scale exercised with EVERYONE in the First Responder community EVEN if we do not play in everyones circle of hot zones.

What are the logical fallacies when posting about CAP??  I do know we are NOT moving aircraft or van loads of seniors or cadets on many EM or airport practice emergencies every day of the week.

Let me help you stop bashing SarMaster ....ignore it    I KNOW some of you folks can not and can not let things go

CAP needs ALOT of improvements and for some of you pro CAPers and CAP lifers....there is DEFINITE NEEDS for improvements in ALL areas whether ANYONE here wants to admit or not.  We at the local level are trying to improve but many agencies I have talked to in my time in and OUT of CAP have not even heard of the organization

Indicating to me after 30 years CAP STILL fails on a Natl Level and Wing level to PERSONALLY get MORE words out than some trifold piece of paper OR handing out some outdated CAPabilities sheet that probably has not been updated for at least 1 year or less. How's that report to Congress every year been helping us out on getting HR 1178 moving  ..."directing the Comptroller General....blah blah blah on how good a "force multiplier" CAP is...IS CAP NHQ / NEB REALLY talking to the Congress and Senate to assists in getting off center??

So when folks slam each other here.......look at the real facts has the real hard work been done getting real credentialing done more serious training other than what is offered?  Maybe its time for CAP to marry up with NASAR...then the real SAR business may unfold, maybe train with CG Auxies for Ground SAR and on and on.

Sar Master may be having a bad week....... don't know...and like everything here.... I know one personally here

But the true respect for everyone is lacking....I could go off on everyone here.........

Bottom line...  CAP either improves to National standard in 5 -10 years or gets left behind somewhere that includes the GOB flying program!!

[Major Carrales]

OK, I have just read pages of the most disgusting display of unprofessionalism I have read in a long while.

Stand down...everyone.

What is missing here is perspective.  I have not been in on these discussion and, hence, do not suffer from the emotional salvos that are transpiring here.  Here is my take...

1) CAP need not deploy overseas.  Ours is a Domestic Mission.  If CAP were to deploy over seas for this effort, it would likely be as individuals attached to some other Command.  NO CAP frontage, no CAP ICS...only, likely, a call from CAP-USAF for persons with certain skills (COMM people), or to donate blood or to offer relief to staffing.  There will be no Ground Teams, flying might be proposed, but will never happen.  That would be all.  No cadets in the field, no ICs (qualified or not) and no need for drama.

2) Cadets in ES serve their purpose in UDF, MRO, MSA and, to an extent on the CAP Ground Teams.  There, under adult supervision, they can operate as well as any trained person in that position.  There will never be true cadet ICs, Aircrew, Branch Directors et cetra (you might run these positions at squadron meetings to teach applied understanding of the Incident Command System, but reality is reality)  In every operation, ranging form Hurricane Ike to local UDF searches Local, State and Federal authorities praised the cadets for the work they were doing.  It was limited work, but in a world where gangs run rampant and children know more of Mario and Luigi than math and science, it was a significant blessing demonstrating that even the "lesser of us" can be well trained, professional and mission centered.

3) If one is to be critical of CAP, they must offer solutions to the problems...and not just general ones.  The issues presented by CAP critics on this forum I have used in my local sphere to develop a professional unit of aviators and Staff (many of them are former Navy OPS, others possessing a plethora of skills).  I have been much applicative of RiverAux, among others, which whom I have clashed before, but two which much insight was provided.  I, also, at times, play "devil's advocate" because ideas, theories and concepts untested and untempered by debate present an "unknown" that can "fail in operation."  Dissent serves to provide those tests and tempers.

4) We should all be WANNABE's, as in we should all WANT TO BE...BETTER.  CAP is a grassroots local organization in the same mold as "minutemen" of old.  We all, that are active, devote time and energy to CAP, not for PERSONAL GLORIFICATION, but as a calling to serve a communitarian need.  To be there, in  helpful capacity...not simply sit by.  There are three types of people in this world; those that make things happen, those that watch what happened and those the wonder what happened.  I should hope that we CAP Officers and Cadets are making things happen.  During Disaster mitigation we should all have an active role, during the event and recovery we should seek to be a boon, not a hindrance, to what is transpiring.

If you have certain skills...and look down a "metaphorical nose" at someone who does not have those skills...then you should help develop them in that individual.  You should organize the classes and guide the exercises to bring others up.   Remember, there is nothing quite so strong as the heart of a volunteer.  There are many in many related jobs that, after a week's work, leave it with a form of almost contempt for it (with rhetoric that seems to indicate they hate their work) ; while volunteers are there, sans pay, and are willing to push.  That is what CAP's critics and supporters alike should be harnessing.

[ketseyowyow]

The east coast squadrons of Florida are taking part from home, they send things over there. http://www.sercap.us/capmodule/inews/view.asp?ID=298
is the link you can read about it.
I know my dad is on a frigate and helping out down there w/humanitarian aid.
Just bring it up in your squadron, I know that one of the cadets in MD, (MER-MD-089, a squadron I used to go to) is gonna try and bring it up wed. night at the meeting.

[Eagle 1]

Yeah, back to the topic, here's a news article on what we're doing to help in New Jersey
http://www.capvolunteernow.com/headline_news.cfm/cap_members_among_mcguire_afb_relief_volunteers?show=news&newsID=6627

I think it's pretty fair to say that the scope of our involvement is limited to the things that have already been mentioned (blood drive, sending supplies, logistical support from home).

[DG]

Here is a great story about my friend Andrew Diffley and his Piper Aztec.

PAWG had an Aztek a few years ago.

They traded it in for a Saratoga and then traded that in for a U-206 NAVIII

http://cbs3.com/video/?id=95491@kyw.dayport.com

[Seabee219]

If anyone in CAP wants to BASH us over and over, turn your uniform in and have a nice day.  You can help change all that you think is wrong.

  Now, it is great that we as Americans are helping our fellow man in Haiti get over this terrible thing.  You have texting going on to raise money, stars donating money and singing for fund raising and it is a very noble effort.  But my questions is, why are Americans not helping Americans as well.  Could we text to help raise money so that teachers in charter schools have jobs and our Gov will not write an IOU so they can get a pay check.  Or stars that make 20 million a movie give some to people that are starving right around the corner from them.  Yes some do give and I am sure its going on and we do not hear about it, but it would be nice to see that going on as well.

[DG]

If anyone in CAP wants to BASH us over and over, turn your uniform in and have a nice day.  You can help change all that you think is wrong.

  Now, it is great that we as Americans are helping our fellow man in Haiti get over this terrible thing.  You have texting going on to raise money, stars donating money and singing for fund raising and it is a very noble effort.  But my questions is, why are Americans not helping Americans as well.  Could we text to help raise money so that teachers in charter schools have jobs and our Gov will not write an IOU so they can get a pay check.  Or stars that make 20 million a movie give some to people that are starving right around the corner from them.  Yes some do give and I am sure its going on and we do not hear about it, but it would be nice to see that going on as well.

Is it true?

I heard that President Obama is working behind the scenes to get support for annexing Haiti as the 51st state.

Then we would be helping ourselves.

[raivo]

Apparently a team of ham radio operators from the Dominican Republic went in to try and help with communications. They got shot at as soon as they left their embassy, some of them were injured.

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2010/01/18/11293/

Again, this is definitely somewhere CAP does not want to be.