Feds restrict volunteers at disasters

[DNall]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070901/ap_on_re_us/disaster_ids

We talked about this a lot when I was around more in the spring. Seems the smart card ID thing is becoming a reality, and CAP needs very much not to get left behind... which in turn means our training & certification standards are going to have to be standardized with professional responders (which is the whole point of the card system). I know this is going to hurt for a lot of people, but I for one welcome the challenge & think I'll like the CAP we become when we've overcome it. You can be pessimistic if you like though.

[IceNine]

Its about Time!!!

I'm just about tired of carrying around CAPID, Driver's license, 101, 76, 60's, ROA, etc just because we can't take the time to utilize "advanced" technology.

[Eclipse]

This article has nothing to do with organized agencies like CAP.

This is a story about  people who cowboyed it to NYC or Katrina and got bent when they made an issue of it.

Uniformed agencies with federally-issued credentials are not in the same class or situation.

[RiverAux]

Well, the examples they used were the untrained volunteers, but it is just such identification that would keep CAP from being lumped in with them.  I have strong reservations about such a national system being very workable, but agree with it in principle. 

[DNall]

Uniformed agencies with federally-issued credentials are not in the same class or situation.

Okay, that's fine. Problem is we don't have federally issued credentials & we're not about to start getting these new ones cause we aren't actually qualified to do jack crap.

We've refused to update our training, and understandablly so. Fact is, you put in a PT test, outside administered skills test, and academic work, and then you require regular intensive re-training to stay current to a minimum skill level required of paid professionals... that puts  abig chunck of the ES force ont he shelf. You're talking national guard is as to regular army as CAP is to full time paid first response rescue workers. That means gear, skills, training, personal & team capabilities, the whole thing.

Is there a theoretical way to get CAP in that ballpark? Cause that's the standard for getting these cards & not having them as an organization is close to a death senetence, on ES anyway & in combination iwith ever increasing tech on the ELT front.

[RiverAux]

C'mon Dnall, you know that the standards you're talking about are still in draft form and it would be stupid for CAP to start changing its regulations around significantly yet.  We haven't refused to do anything.  We can't adopt something that isn't final yet. 

Could we be more aggressive about requiring a few of the things that are very obviously going to be required (the ICS courses)?  Sure. 

[IceNine]

Yep, we use the NASAR Training requirements for what we can. 

NIMS/ICS for others,

And we supplement (which as we know means only making more strict, not deleting items) training where needed to meet the demands of our particular unique skill set of electronic searches

[Eclipse]

The skills we have and train with today are ABSOLUTELY 100% appropriate to the types of missions we perform and the people we have to perform them.

We sell ourselves as one agency to another, based on existing skillsets.

We are not first responders, are not supposed to be first responders, and therefore do not need the training first responders require.

In my ID carrier I have a regular and photo ID from the agency I work for, which, according to the agency I work for, is enough.

[Eclipse]

As a matter of fact, we were heavily involved in the ramp-up for Hurricane Dean in Southern Texas, and were cited as an agency which was part of the solution.

Thanks to the continued dedication and hard work of a number of our members, we already are in the ballpark and will remain there as long as we continue to perform.

[Eclipse]

Uniformed agencies with federally-issued credentials are not in the same class or situation.

Okay, that's fine. Problem is we don't have federally issued credentials & we're not about to start getting these new ones cause we aren't actually qualified to do jack crap. 

Saying it doesn't make it true, agenda or not.

I have no idea what the ops temp in your area is like, but I have done plenty of work for outside agencies in the last two years, and I and my members are qualified to everything the organization is authorized to do.

Anything more requires radical shift of the nature and purpose of CAP.  A shift I am not personally in favor of.

I think we can all agree that the core of the ENTIRE problem in CAP is the inability of our senior members to drill properly.

[DNall]

Some of it's draft, some of it isn't, some of it is done & awaiting final approval & if it changes at all would be very minor. Meantime, the whole emer resp world (volunteers included) are changing in the direction of those standards so they make the cut when the time comes.

CAP faces some real big problems, two in particular I'd draw your attention to. First is the nature of our membership: volunteer, too many out of shape for real field work, limited funding, lack of leadership foundation to drive the change/transition... etc.  Second, we started out much further away from those professional qualification standards than did the other organizations (paid or otherswise) who focus exclusively on that topic. We have a VERY long way to go & the initial transition can be VERY crippling, moreso if done too quickly. Right now we're just giving time cause it's not comfortable to make those changes & we don't want to lose people, but eventually we'll be forced down that road or out of the ES business. I think if you wait too long, waste too much of that time, then the wall becomes overwhelming to climb. Better to start further back & use a legitimate trajectory to get you over. At this point though, with these cards coming on, that's the base of the wall where we're forced to sink or swim.

I see this smart card program as potentially the critical turning point that forces CAP to man up & be what it's always claimed to be, maybe a even a bit more, or to quit pretending & get out of the way so real rescuers can get by. I think it'll either kill ES all together or it'll be the greatest thing that's ever happened to CAP ES; and I think that choice is up to CAP to make but it has to be 100% decisive, and you know very well where I stand.

[IceNine]

C'mon Dnall, you know that the standards you're talking about are still in draft form and it would be stupid for CAP to start changing its regulations around significantly yet.  We haven't refused to do anything.  We can't adopt something that isn't final yet. 

Could we be more aggressive about requiring a few of the things that are very obviously going to be required (the ICS courses)?  Sure. 

Since when has CAP EVER worried about things being set in stone before putting them into play

Prime example...As of such and such date all wideband only radios will be non-compliant.  No other NTIA organization is transitioning, and we don't have narrowband frequencies but you can't use them

[DNall]

Eclipse, forgive me my friend, I appreciate what you guys have & are doing. As you well know, I've got quite a bit of real ES work under my belt too, and have had the chance to work with plenty of other folks. That said....

Driving around neighborhoods a week after a storm to conduct surveys is important to someone somewherem, but it's not exactly in the rescue category. Front end disaster assessment to direct deployment of federal rescue assets, that's we used to & are supposed to still be doing. Requiring real EMTs & letting them work, actually rescuing people... the absolute tip of the spear. We've done little snippets of that kind since 9/11, but it certainly hasn't been the mainstay.

To me, the standard is FEMA-WSAR, plus swiftwater from NASAR, and of course appropriate leadership/experience... I'll stipulate for the sake of argument that your people are there. You'd agree though I'm sure that the rest of CAP is not, not remotely close in fact.

This ID thing is an attempt by the feds to force out posers & the un/under-trained. CAP will have to work real hard to be above that line & that end-state org is one I'll be proud to be part of. I believe this program forces that issue one way or another, and this is me calling on CAP to step up.

[Eclipse]

CAP hasn't been in the "rescue" business for a LOOOONNNGGGGG time.

When you don't have people on ready standby, you are not in the rescue business.

[IceNine]

CAP Great for all of your Search and Rescue Recover Missions...

When being there in time isn't important

[Eclipse]

Again, we are 2nd and 3rd responders by design - backfilling and assisting other agencies
who are better equipped and trained for a different >part< of the mission.

We have our place and our piece, we're part-time people and our place in the hierarchy reflects that.

It doesn't make our place less important, but we need to accept what it is.

[RiverAux]

I guess the 50-100 people who AFRCC credits us with saving every year must be zombies since we obviously only recovered them and didn't rescue them. 

[ZigZag911]

It seems to me there is a reason so many of these first responders are, in fact, paid professionals: namely, it takes full time commitment to do the training, study, practice and preparation involved in carrying out these responsibilities properly.

I'm an IC/AL with experience in comm, planning, UDF and mission observer.

If disaster strikes my community and the best way I can help is by making bologna sandwiches, or driving a CAP van full of MREs from shelter to shelter, or doing admin work on a computer, I'll do it gladly.

If I'm needed to coordinate the CAP contribution as Agency Liaison, that's fine too.

What I'm not...and what virtually none of the personnel available to me are, either -- is a substitute for professional first responders.

We supplement....we serve as force multipliers....we help.

That's what CAP does.

[Dragoon]

CAP's gonna do fine.  Here are some predictions.



First they'll get the ID cards rolling with all the paid guys.  This will take years.  It took the Army over 3 years to roll out Common Access Cards, and they already had a central database of folks!

Then they'll gradually move the cards into the volunteer force.  They'll start with big organizations like us and the Red Cross.

The first  cut won't have diddly to do with qualifications, it'll be about accountability. The card will verify that Billy Bob is associated with such-and-such an organization, so that we can be sure he's not a freelancer, and we know who to call if he does something stupid.

Having a Federal "101 card" is years away.  No need to get overly excited.

[ZigZag911]

I saw a newspaper article about this over the weekend.

Spokesperson for the issuing authority (believe DHS, can't recall!)
specifically stated that this applied only to rescuers (as in 'first responders'), not follow on personnel.