BDUs as a hindrance

[PHall]

I am anxious to see how CA Wing handles the flood of missions they're now getting.

Flood of missions??? You know something that I don't?

I was being sarcastic by implying that changing their uniform was going to make any big difference in how many missions they're doing.

Hey, make fun of us all you want, but we do have to live with the laws that we have.
And in California the Sheriff of each county is the person responsible for all search and rescue activities in their county.
We operate in their county at their pleasure.
The Governors Office has designated CalEMA as the sole POC for all SAR activities in the state. This is to ensure proper coordination takes place.
So, if we want to do any SAR activities in the state then we have to play by their rules.
The only other alternative is to not do any ES at all...

[davidsinn]

Hey, make fun of us all you want, but we do have to live with the laws that we have.

No you don't. Get in the good graces of the governor and/or the legislature and get them to bring pressure on to CalEMA. Or make a public stink about how the government is wasting money by turning away qualified volunteers and you can get the laws changed. The last way might not be the best way to do it.

[PHall]

Hey, make fun of us all you want, but we do have to live with the laws that we have.

No you don't. Get in the good graces of the governor and/or the legislature and get them to bring pressure on to CalEMA. Or make a public stink about how the government is wasting money by turning away qualified volunteers and you can get the laws changed. The last way might not be the best way to do it.

The governor and the legislature have a few more pressing issues on their plate right now. It's called "The Budget", or the lack of...
And most of the counties have Sheriff Volunteer Search and Rescue Teams that are much more well trained and equipped then we are.
So the "public stink" angle might not be the one to play...

[davidsinn]

Hey, make fun of us all you want, but we do have to live with the laws that we have.

No you don't. Get in the good graces of the governor and/or the legislature and get them to bring pressure on to CalEMA. Or make a public stink about how the government is wasting money by turning away qualified volunteers and you can get the laws changed. The last way might not be the best way to do it.

The governor and the legislature have a few more pressing issues on their plate right now. It's called "The Budget", or the lack of...
And most of the counties have Sheriff Volunteer Search and Rescue Teams that are much more well trained and equipped then we are.
So the "public stink" angle might not be the one to play...

This falls under the budget argument. Cheap volunteers are being turned away for a fashion issue.

[RRLE]

Cheap volunteers are being turned away for a fashion issue.

There are two  ways to look at that - your way - and the volunteers are too cheap to buy a uniform that is mandatory for everyone else in the program. Such an attitude generally does not go very far with those in authority, the other voluneers who laid out the cash and the general public.

[majdomke]

Like I said before, I can understand meeting the customers requirements but that should only affect actual missions. For training we should be allowed to still wear what the 39-1 states until we can acquire the rest.

[PA Guy]

turning away qualified volunteers (emphasis mine)

Therein lies the crux of the matter.  Except in the area of electronic search CAP Ground Ops in CA brings little to the table.  When CAP rolls up in a 2WD white van loaded with minors the first thing out of the deputies mouth is get the kids out of here.  We are not even a close match when it comes to training, equipment and resources.  CAP Ground Ops is in  no position to bargain or demand.   This is a sample of the local competition:

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/17911234?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0"></iframe><p>The Search for Michelle Yu from SBSAR on Vimeo.</p>

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/20777878?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0"></iframe><p>MRA Recert March 2011 from SBSAR on Vimeo.</p>

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/14771088?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0"></iframe><p>Rescue Below Sugarloaf Peak Near Mt. Baldy from SBSAR on Vimeo.</p>

<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/3012867?title=0&amp;byline=0&amp;portrait=0" width="400" height="302" frameborder="0"></iframe><p>BMC Field Weekend #1 from SBSAR on Vimeo.</p>

http://www.sbcounty.gov/sheriff/aviation/Aircraft_Operated.asp

http://www.sbcounty.gov/sheriff/aviation/Air_Medic.asp

[RiverAux]

Hey, make fun of us all you want, but we do have to live with the laws that we have.
And in California the Sheriff of each county is the person responsible for all search and rescue activities in their county.
We operate in their county at their pleasure.
The Governors Office has designated CalEMA as the sole POC for all SAR activities in the state. This is to ensure proper coordination takes place.
So, if we want to do any SAR activities in the state then we have to play by their rules.
The only other alternative is to not do any ES at all...

What you describe is the situation in every state in the Union -- CAP works at the behest of the state and in most cases with local sheriffs in charge of SAR in particular.  Despite the fact that the legal environment is pretty much the same in CA as everyplace else all we here on CAPTalk is that somehow this situation is special to CA Wing and that it explains why CA Wing doesn't get to participate in SAR activities to any great extent. 

Now, every Wing has probably had some sort of experience with a local sheriff or other official that for a time has caused significant problems and kept CAP out of the ballgame in that county.  But, for it to be happening consistently on a statewide basis implies a more significant problem, most likely within that CAP Wing. 

So, its good to hear that CA Wing is making some efforts to resolve what has obviously been a major relationship problem with their state and local officials but I just don't buy that what we wear was ever any significant part of the reason CAP wasn't being asked to help.  Could the minor issue of uniforms been resolved another way?  Most likely, but what is done is done (for now). 

[PA Guy]

Remember we are only talking about CAP Ground Ops.  Although there have been some bumps in the road the flying side is welcomed.  The Ground Ops side of CAP simply has little or nothing to offer so they are seen as a hindrance. 

[Eclipse]

Remember we are only talking about CAP Ground Ops.  Although there have been some bumps in the road the flying side is welcomed.  The Ground Ops side of CAP simply has little or nothing to offer so they are seen as a hindrance.

You are, of course, speaking only for your wing, thank you.

[RADIOMAN015]

Remember we are only talking about CAP Ground Ops.  Although there have been some bumps in the road the flying side is welcomed.  The Ground Ops side of CAP simply has little or nothing to offer so they are seen as a hindrance.

You are, of course, speaking only for your wing, thank you.

Most ground teams spend most of their time shinning their boots and trying to see how much of a crease they can put in their hats, and attending training that most will never get to use (BUT surely can be used to fill sand bags, hand out water bottles, hand out food, delivery door to door information to residents, welfare check of residents, assist with parking vehicles, etc).  Honestly with BDU's we look like an invading army of wanna bees.  In our wing many years ago the State Police also stated to the wing Ground ES Officer that they would prefer to see us in Blue BDU's (primarily I think because at that time they were using BDU's for their tactical response teams and didn't want any confusion).

Bottom line is if any agency is uncomfortable with us assisting them because of uniforms, personnel, etc, unless we resolve that issue we just won't be part of the "team"
RM   

[AngelWings]

BDU's aren't a hindrance in our case. Those blue tapes, vibrant flag patch, and what ever color the wing, squadron, and speciality patch sure does distinguish us from any known tactical unit and military unit    . That isn't necessarily a bad thing, either, and actually does help us stand out when we walk next any other cadet organization and basically all other organizations. Anyone who says they prefer to see us wearing BlueDU's because the camouflage makes us look like their tactical unit is being pretty picky. Also, I guess that the reflective vest doesn't make us stick our in their minds. I think the issue stems out to something different than a uniform problem...

[Skydude61]

Our only problem with BDU hinderances is the locals wishing to thank us....
I think that that is Ok

[PA Guy]

You are, of course, speaking only for your wing, thank you.

Since the last page or so of posts were dealing with the foibles of CAWG I thought that was obvious.  I guess not.

[Eclipse]

Most ground teams spend most of their time shinning their boots and trying to see how much of a crease they can put in their hats, and attending training that most will never get to use (BUT surely can be used to fill sand bags, hand out water bottles, hand out food, delivery door to door information to residents, welfare check of residents, assist with parking vehicles, etc).  Honestly with BDU's we look like an invading army of wanna bees.  In our wing many years ago the State Police also stated to the wing Ground ES Officer that they would prefer to see us in Blue BDU's (primarily I think because at that time they were using BDU's for their tactical response teams and didn't want any confusion).

Bottom line is if any agency is uncomfortable with us assisting them because of uniforms, personnel, etc, unless we resolve that issue we just won't be part of the "team"

Again, please speak for your wing and from your experience, without inferring this is the case in all areas, which it is not.

Further, you may now permanently knock off the insulting wannabee comments.  We get it, you would prefer to spend your time with RACES, ARES, and Trainspotters.

Feel free...

[Slim]

Further, you may now permanently knock off the insulting wannabee comments.  We get it, you would prefer to spend your time with RACES, ARES, and Trainspotters.

Feel free...

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Abdomina]

If woodland BDUS are such a problem (becuase they are green based), then how about we make 3-color desert ''DCUs'' an acceptable uniform. DCUs were and still are a uniform of the USAF but just used in low numbers as i believe (correct me if im wrong).

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

If woodland BDUS are such a problem (becuase they are green based), then how about we make 3-color desert ''DCUs'' an acceptable uniform. DCUs were and still are a uniform of the USAF but just used in low numbers as i believe (correct me if im wrong).

Then we would be in non-black boot territory. Serious $$$ there.

[NCRblues]

If woodland BDUS are such a problem (becuase they are green based), then how about we make 3-color desert ''DCUs'' an acceptable uniform. DCUs were and still are a uniform of the USAF but just used in low numbers as i believe (correct me if im wrong).

DCU's went bye-bye with the advent of ABU's. You cant even wear the DCU "yellow" suede with the ABU's anymore (at first you could).

We are going to have to go one of two ways....

#1. ABU's

or

#2. BBDU's for everyone

[RiverAux]

Note that neither of these will solve the purported "issue" at hand in this thread.