BDUs as a hindrance

[NM SAR]

I'm in New Mexico Wing, one of those few funny places where CAP doesn't run SAR. SAR here is under the State Police, and is predominantly performed by other volunteer SAR organizations; in fact, CAP is something of a black sheep in the NM SAR organization.

One of the interesting things we're running into is that the SAR community is taking issue with the BDUs. they have two complaints; cotton and camouflage. Cotton is a terrible material for mountain rescue, but they're willing to deal with since the uniform isn't entirely cotton. the thing they take the most issue with is that we're in camouflage, and everybody from NASAR down to the smallest SAR team realizes that blending in on SAR is bad. in addition, 8" jungle boots fairly well suck for mountaineering, for a variety of reasons.

I'm working on getting people to switch over to BBDUs, since this would at least solve the camo issue, but I'm meeting a surprising amount of resistance. I guess there's a GI joe mentality that says camo is cool, so no one wants to give it up, even though blue makes more sense from a SAR perspective. the other possibility is that the BBDU has unfortunately been associated with the fluffy sorts who don't meet weight standards, so no one who does meet weight standards is willing to wear it. any thoughts on changing some minds?

[Nilsog]

I find it interesting that other organizations care so much about what we wear. If you need people, you need people, regardless of the colored threads they wear. We're mandated to wear vests over the uniform anyway, so what does it matter?

And as far as getting others into the field uniform- Its obviously going to be a personal choice. I wore them for my first year and a half and switched to BDUs because I got into cadet programs and I wanted to look like I was on the same team. If wearing the field uniform were to become a mandate to take part in ES operations then you would probably see a large part of your ES centered people lose interest or even leave. I don't know if its sad to say or not, but uniforms seem to be a huge part of most of what we do. I think I'm correct when I say that most members have no desire to give up or switch away from USAF uniforms. Just the way it is.

On the flip side, other agencies should not be mandating or demanding or even criticising what we wear. We are the USAF Auxiliary, and we wear what is authorized. If someone doesn't like it because "its not what the other SAR people wear", then go play with the other SAR people.

[NM SAR]

while I agree with you in principle, the problem is that we're not getting SAR callouts because we're too different from the SAR community, and our organization has historically had a "I'll take my ball and go home" attitude about things like this, which has alienated much of the SAR community.

[a2capt]

If it's really the uniform they have a problem with and you think that will just magically go away if it's changed ....

...I would suspect it's really not the uniform, but a great bluff to call that does have a good chance of not being changed so that the argument never has to be debated on the real terms.

IE, the uniform is pretty petty when put up against what we can offer as an organization.

[Spaceman3750]

Get your senior leadership to sit down with the state police and figure out what the real issue is. My money says someone didn't play nice with them at some point and there's still some resentment over that. They don't have issues with other volunteer orgs so you need to figure out what the real issue with CAP is.

[NM SAR]

there ARE other issues, and we're working on them from other angles. this is only one of them, but it's the one that seems to be brought up most often.

[Eclipse]

there ARE other issues, and we're working on them from other angles. this is only one of them, but it's the one that seems to be brought up most often.

Likely because it is visible and inconsequential. 

Undersell and overproduce and the uniform comments will likely dry up. 

[UWONGO2]

I'm working on getting people to switch over to BBDUs, since this would at least solve the camo issue, but I'm meeting a surprising amount of resistance. I guess there's a GI joe mentality that says camo is cool, so no one wants to give it up, even though blue makes more sense from a SAR perspective. the other possibility is that the BBDU has unfortunately been associated with the fluffy sorts who don't meet weight standards, so no one who does meet weight standards is willing to wear it. any thoughts on changing some minds?

My wing has unofficially made it a requirement to have BBDUs to be on the ground team. Nothing is in writing, but if you don't play ball and follow the 'rules' then you don't get the call when missions come up.

I believe the rationale is to "fit in" with the other SAR teams in the state.

[a2capt]

Great! More folks to help out with Cadet Programs and Aerospace Education .. when the ES folks run 'em off with unofficial rules or complicated niche uniform requirements.

The reflective vest thing should take care of that issue system wide, and seems like a far more sensible, practical solution to me.

[BillB]

From what I've observed, to many ground teams go out to a SAR without the required vests. This could be a big aprt of the uniform problem.

[peter rabbit]

Get your senior leadership to sit down with the state police and figure out what the real issue is. My money says someone didn't play nice with them at some point and there's still some resentment over that. They don't have issues with other volunteer orgs so you need to figure out what the real issue with CAP is.

And, if it turns out the uniform really is a big part of the problem and the BBDU won't solve it, do like CAWG and get permission to wear what you need to meet the customer's requirements. Then, do as others have suggested - undersell and overproduce.

[RiverAux]

Seeing as how the BDU has the same "issues" in every state I think it quite unlikely that it is even in the top 10 reasons why CAP evidently is a minor SAR player in your state. 

Have they also told the National Guard that they can't participate in SAR wearing their official uniforms?

[Larry Mangum]

SAR organizations in Washington State have pulled the same reasoning for not using CAP.  In fairness, while it is not the main reason, it is a valid reason, in wet and cold climates.  The Guard when the deploy, have all of the appropriate layers including gortex and the state assumes all of the risk. When CAP seniors and cadets go into the field with just BDU's and the environment is wet or cold, we can easily become part of the problem and not part of the solution.

[davidsinn]

When CAP seniors and cadets go into the field with just BDU's and the environment is wet or cold, we can easily become part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Then you need smarter members. We have the ability to wear gortex. We are supposed to have ponchos. If someone goes out in the woods without proper gear they should not have the GT rating.

[Larry Mangum]

When CAP seniors and cadets go into the field with just BDU's and the environment is wet or cold, we can easily become part of the problem and not part of the solution.

Then you need smarter members. We have the ability to wear gortex. We are supposed to have ponchos. If someone goes out in the woods without proper gear they should not have the GT rating.

It is not just a matter of needing smarter members. When the various SAR councils around the state have adopted a standard , that calls for wool pants for example, and the sheriff departments decides to adopt that standard as their own, then if CAP wants to play, it must comply. It is that simple and not that hard to do, all it takes is for the wing to supplement CAPM 39-1 and have it approved all the way up the chain.

The problem, is that CAP comes in and states, we are a "Federal Asset" and we don't have to comply with your requirements and then wonders why the local authorities don't want to use them. That attitude more then any other is the reason CAP does not get invited to play.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

Get yourself seen. Many of the uniform and these other guys didn't play well problems go away when they see what you can really do. Invite the PD people that make those type of decisions in your area to watch you run a full extent exercise. If they still say no, then the problem is most likely because they didn't like what they saw in your tactics or some aspect of the way you operate. When they know you work well, they will most likely not care if you are out in cut off jean shorts and tank tops. Train hard for a few months and then invite the important people out including the governing body of your area to watch you work. Even if the PD doesn't like your uniform, if the Governing body likes what they see they can tell the PD to suck it up and use this valuable asset.

[majdomke]

And, if it turns out the uniform really is a big part of the problem and the BBDU won't solve it, do like CAWG and get permission to wear what you need to meet the customer's requirements. Then, do as others have suggested - undersell and overproduce.

This is where I take issue with wearing what meets the "customer's requirements". This past weekend CAWG had an Operations Evaluation. I had a ground team of fully qualified ground team members ready to participate. On Friday I was called to see if we all had the newly mandated CAWG Ground Team Uniform and none of us had it. Thus, we were changed over to a UDF team and never used. What gets me is that the new uniform was implemented to meet CAL EMA's "suggestion". This Ops Eval was done by the USAF so why would they care if I was wearing a CAL EMA uniform or not? And then the PIO simulated news releases come out saying how we have 1200 ES personnel standing by. How many of those have the CAL EMA uniform? In an emergency it shouldn't matter what you wear as long as you get the job done. When performing missions for CAL EMA I can understand wearing what makes them happy. However, when all you're doing is training or participating in USAF evaluations, you should be able to wear the uniform specified in 39-1 and standard across the country for CAP ES.

[Spaceman3750]

And, if it turns out the uniform really is a big part of the problem and the BBDU won't solve it, do like CAWG and get permission to wear what you need to meet the customer's requirements. Then, do as others have suggested - undersell and overproduce.

This is where I take issue with wearing what meets the "customer's requirements". This past weekend CAWG had an Operations Evaluation. I had a ground team of fully qualified ground team members ready to participate. On Friday I was called to see if we all had the newly mandated CAWG Ground Team Uniform and none of us had it. Thus, we were changed over to a UDF team and never used. What gets me is that the new uniform was implemented to meet CAL EMA's "suggestion". This Ops Eval was done by the USAF so why would they care if I was wearing a CAL EMA uniform or not? And then the PIO simulated news releases come out saying how we have 1200 ES personnel standing by. How many of those have the CAL EMA uniform? In an emergency it shouldn't matter what you wear as long as you get the job done. When performing missions for CAL EMA I can understand wearing what makes them happy. However, when all you're doing is training or participating in USAF evaluations, you should be able to wear the uniform specified in 39-1 and standard across the country for CAP ES.

Play nice or go home... The CAWG GT uniform sucks - but it's the cost of playing nice with the agencies with legal responsibility for SAR.

[RVT]

Play nice or go home... The CAWG GT uniform sucks - but it's the cost of playing nice with the agencies with legal responsibility for SAR.

Personally I don't think the uniform sucks - the rules regarding how you are supposed to change into and out of it every time your status changes is what made me pass on it.

CAWG needs to authorise the CAP polo shirt with BBDU pants - then we won't have that problem anymore.

[Spaceman3750]

Play nice or go home... The CAWG GT uniform sucks - but it's the cost of playing nice with the agencies with legal responsibility for SAR.

Personally I don't think the uniform sucks - the rules regarding how you are supposed to change into and out of it every time your status changes is what made me pass on it.

CAWG needs to authorise the CAP polo shirt with BBDU pants - then we won't have that problem anymore.

Polo with gray tac pants is already kosher and distinctive.