Emergency Lights on Vehicles

[cap235629]

CAPR 77-1 paragraph 10f

Marking of rescue vehicles must conform to federal, state, and local laws. The type of light bar used on
vehicles must be approved in writing by the wing commander (region commander if a region vehicle) and must
follow the narrowest guidelines established by the resident state and all surrounding states. The colors used on
approved light bars will be amber or amber/white.. The colors red and blue on light bars or the use of sirens are not
authorized for use on any CAP vehicle.

Your point?

[JayT]

My County SAR Team is authorized to drive Code 3 (With lights and sirens), but only In the event of heavy traffic and it is believed the saved time would be critical in life saving. That being said, we still have to follow the speed limit, stop at lights and stop signs and follow the rules of the road.

From a CAP perspective I do not see any use of Code 3 lights except when driving on tarmacs, on the side of the road in visibility and MAYBE in a Disaster relief setting. We have no need for Code 3 driving

So your SAR Team is allowed to go 'Code 3' in 'heavy traffic' if you think the time would be critical in 'life saving?' Who determines that? Who 'authorizes' you?

[Jerry Jacobs]

My County SAR Team is authorized to drive Code 3 (With lights and sirens), but only In the event of heavy traffic and it is believed the saved time would be critical in life saving. That being said, we still have to follow the speed limit, stop at lights and stop signs and follow the rules of the road.

From a CAP perspective I do not see any use of Code 3 lights except when driving on tarmacs, on the side of the road in visibility and MAYBE in a Disaster relief setting. We have no need for Code 3 driving

So your SAR Team is allowed to go 'Code 3' in 'heavy traffic' if you think the time would be critical in 'life saving?' Who determines that? Who 'authorizes' you?

The determination must be made by one of the Sheriff Deputies that oversees the team.

[JayT]

So what's an example of something you would flip on the flashers for?

[Custer]

CAPR 77-1 paragraph 10f :  Marking of rescue vehicles must conform to federal, state, and local laws. The type of light bar used on vehicles must be approved in writing by the wing commander (region commander if a region vehicle) and must follow the narrowest guidelines established by the resident state and all surrounding states. The colors used on approved light bars will be amber or amber/white.. The colors red and blue on light bars or the use of sirens are not authorized for use on any CAP vehicle.

I just remembered the incident that set things in motion out here - we actually had a couple of people going up the I5 running code - and they got pulled over by the Highway Patrol, at which point they explained in great detail why they were authorized to do that.

Obviously they were not.  This was around 1984.  I should also mention it was not even a CAP vehicle - it was a privately owned light pickup truck.

Information was not instantaneous in those days and I never got the full story on what the aftermath of that was outside of the radio traffic on that evenings net saying we had to cover all light bars and not use them.

[caphornbuckle]

Indiana:

Red=Fire/Ambulance
Red/Blue=Law Enforcement
Blue=Volunteer Firefighter (personal vehicle) BTW:  This one seriously confuses those from the south who's Police Vehicles have only Blue Lights and have never been up in Indiana before.
Green=Volunteer EMS (personal vehicle)
Yellow=Anyone who wants to use them (usually slow moving or frequently stopping vehicles)

Volunteer Firefighters and EMS personnel in their personal vehicles must still obey the speed limit and obey traffic signals when they use their lights.

There are a few vehicles with yellow lightbars in my wing.  These are usually most of our older ones or those assigned to units involving ES.  They are generally used only for most examples shown above (stopping on side of roads, airports, etc.).

[Capt Ford]

I think that yellow lights (without siren) is good enough.

Example: I work security for a golf community and we have a fleet of old police cruisers with only yellow light bars on top and no siren. We have the authority to pull over speeders within the community, and the whole two times I've actually had to pull people over, once I got behind them and turned on the flashing yellows they pulled right over.

So in other words, I think that once people catch some type of bright flashing yellow light it would force them to slow down and keep a close eye on their surroundings. Which works great for UDF and Ground Team personnel and is just pointless for anyone else.

[wuzafuzz]

Most airports I've been on, or worked at, only required a flashing yellow light or orange/white checkered flag when operating a vehicle on or near movement areas as directed by ground control.  Ramps, tie-down areas, and hangar rows?  Nope.  If you are on an airport that requires those lights in non-movement areas, get a little yellow Kojak light (in compliance with your state laws and CAP regs) and call it good.

The only other reason I might want a yellow flashy light is if I'm a ground team out in the middle of nowhere.  Might prove handy to help a plane find me at night.  Of course there are other ways to do that.

The rest of the time those light bars are just costing you a few miles per gallon for no good reason.  If I have to park near a road, I pull far enough off the road no flashing lights are needed or desirable.

I thought it was interesting the CAP reg cited earlier requires compliance with all neighboring state laws, not just your own.  So if you are good to in the State of Confusion, but one of the states next door says no, you are out of luck.

[Krapenhoeffer]

Okay, I do have to chime in here...

Once upon a time, we were working with the State Patrol, and trying to work with their aircraft. Things were less than good there...

So, the State Patrol decided to create something called "Pimp My Corporate Van."

Before we even discovered that it was missing, the van was returned with an Amber LED lightbar, complete with takedown lights, and separate strobes placed all around the vehicle.

Also included was a laptop mount in the passenger seat, power inverter for laptop, and a completely redesigned interior, consisting of the many bells and whistles needed to run the darned thing.

The only problem was that the lightbar included sirens. The Wing CC and Region CC decided that since the lightbar was donated, it would be acceptable to put a post-it note that read "NO!" right next to the siren controls. And a verbal promise to not play with the sirens.

Cadets named the van "Mothership."

Seniors: Starship Enterprise.

[N Harmon]

I would like to see our vans equipped with a single amber/white strobe beacon, and a traffic advisor.

[HGjunkie]

Okay, I do have to chime in here...

Once upon a time, we were working with the State Patrol, and trying to work with their aircraft. Things were less than good there...

So, the State Patrol decided to create something called "Pimp My Corporate Van."

Before we even discovered that it was missing, the van was returned with an Amber LED lightbar, complete with takedown lights, and separate strobes placed all around the vehicle.

Also included was a laptop mount in the passenger seat, power inverter for laptop, and a completely redesigned interior, consisting of the many bells and whistles needed to run the darned thing.

The only problem was that the lightbar included sirens. The Wing CC and Region CC decided that since the lightbar was donated, it would be acceptable to put a post-it note that read "NO!" right next to the siren controls. And a verbal promise to not play with the sirens.

Cadets named the van "Mothership."

Seniors: Starship Enterprise.

I want one of those... 

[RADIOMAN015]

CAP is NOT a first responder organization.  There's is no need for red or blue lights on any CAP vehicles.  CAP vehicles cannot exceed the speed limit and must adhered to all traffic regulations e.g. stop signs.   Again some of the "ES rambos" need to get back into reality . 

IF appropriate authorized (in the state the vehicle is operated in), a stopped CAP vehicle or vehicle on an airport could utilize a magnetic flashing orange/yellow type light as an added safety measure).  (Some state require permits for moving vehicles to have any sort of flashing lights on them).
RM

[A.Member]

CAP is NOT a first responder organization.  There's is no need for red or blue lights on any CAP vehicles.  CAP vehicles cannot exceed the speed limit and must adhered to all traffic regulations e.g. stop signs.   Again some of the "ES rambos" need to get back into reality . 

:clap:   :clap:

Between this thread and the "force protection" thread, all I can do is shake my head.

[HGjunkie]

CAP is NOT a first responder organization.  There's is no need for red or blue lights on any CAP vehicles.  CAP vehicles cannot exceed the speed limit and must adhered to all traffic regulations e.g. stop signs.   Again some of the "ES rambos" need to get back into reality . 

IF appropriate authorized (in the state the vehicle is operated in), a stopped CAP vehicle or vehicle on an airport could utilize a magnetic flashing orange/yellow type light as an added safety measure).  (Some state require permits for moving vehicles to have any sort of flashing lights on them).
RM

Do you just reject everything we talk about here on CAPTalk?

CAP is NOT a first responder organization.  There's is no need for red or blue lights on any CAP vehicles.  CAP vehicles cannot exceed the speed limit and must adhered to all traffic regulations e.g. stop signs.   Again some of the "ES rambos" need to get back into reality . 

:clap:   :clap:

Between this thread and the "force protection" thread, all I can do is shake my head.

Seriously...

[SJFedor]

CAP is NOT a first responder organization.  There's is no need for red or blue lights on any CAP vehicles.  CAP vehicles cannot exceed the speed limit and must adhered to all traffic regulations e.g. stop signs.   Again some of the "ES rambos" need to get back into reality . 

IF appropriate authorized (in the state the vehicle is operated in), a stopped CAP vehicle or vehicle on an airport could utilize a magnetic flashing orange/yellow type light as an added safety measure).  (Some state require permits for moving vehicles to have any sort of flashing lights on them).
RM

Do you just reject everything we talk about here on CAPTalk?

For once, he's got a point....

If you guys wanna "run code" and save lives and all that other fun stuff, go to school, become an EMT/Paramedic/Firefighter/LEO and do it the real, correct way. Once you do this, you'll learn that "going code" isn't all that great, and in fact, it puts you in danger more times than it's worth. As an EMT in an extremely busy metro 911 service, I cringe everytime we have to light up for something that we probably shouldn't have to. "Toe pain x3 months and short of air" comes to mind (responded to it last night). There's even a calculator somewhere on one of the EMS sites (JEMS maybe?) where you put your distance, speed limit, and your actual speed, and it'll tell you just how much time you save going code. It's not much.

Otherwise, you just end up as one of these (and not the secret kind either):

[CommGeek]

I think we all need red and blue lights...and national should issue us all Glock's too....

[a2capt]

Do you just reject everything we talk about here on CAPTalk?

At least there's more than a few clicks of the icons.
..and as a rarity, it does make sense. There's a few of these ES rambos around here. It may look interesting, it doesn't serve to further the mission when they become wannabe code (insert number here) responders and one man teams. About the times that come to mind where there might be a flashing light/bar/bubble is airport rampside operations or UDF with a tow truck ;-)

Okay, you could have bought an old ambulance like the Ghostbusters, too..

[DBlair]

Okay, you could have bought an old ambulance like the Ghostbusters, too..

I remember someone who actually did that back in the 1990s. It was quite an 'interesting' squadron SAR vehicle. lol

[ol'fido]

The only extra light I "might" put on a CAP van would be one of the white strobes they put on the top of most of the school buses I see these days.

I've done ES for 30+ years and one of the best lessons I've learned is DON'T RUSH! Move deliberately but rushing just leads to accidents and mistakes. We don't need to run code!

[spacecommand]

Our old van (not the new one) had a orange strobe that was used only when the van was parked at the side of the road for warning.  We never ran code and I never visioned a situation where we would need to run code at all.

If there are wings / units out there that someway feel they need to run code, then I would hope the driver would go through somesort of Emergency vehicle operations course sponsored by the local law enforcement/rescue agency.  In NYC ,Auxiliary Police officers who want to operate city vehicles must pass the same driving course given to full time officers.  But again I don't see a reason to run code.