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The CAP ID

Started by afgeo4, November 21, 2005, 03:08:54 AM

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afgeo4

Mike Kieloch and I were driving to Oswego a while back and for the Nth time, the question of the Common Access Card Identification for CAP came up.  I know it was turned down by USAF, but anyone know specific reasons?  Is it published anywhere?  Where does the whole question stand?  I've noticed that cap.gov still has it as "pending final USAF approval"...  Are they still trying to push for it?

I'm not convinced about the case for or against it since I haven't seen it.

GEORGE LURYE, 1st Lt, CAP
Emergency Services Officer
Syracuse Comp. Sqdn, NER-NY-135
GEORGE LURYE

arajca

As I understand it, CAP is pushing for a CAP ID card. The exact design hasn't been determined, but NHQ is reportedly coordinating with the AF to create a card that meets their requirements. I think that the design will be released when the AF approves it, and not before.

PhoenixRisen

Sheesh, another CAP ID card thread :). It was discussed, then proposed, THEN turned down... here's a link to the document stating it's turn-down:
http://capblog.typepad.com/capblog/files/cap_id_request.pdf

After they turned it down, they had another deisgn made and proposed:


THEN, they figured out that they sent the proposal of the CAC ID card to the wrong person at AFHQ, so they resubmitted it, and from an email I recently got from my wing CC, they should be issuing them by Dec/Jan, though I do not know if they have OK'd them for Cadets yet(hopefully).

Eclipse

You pretty much called it, other than I have seen nothig official that anyting has bee approved or that there is any plan to start issuing the,

It was knocked back to square-1 as far as I know, and there is a lot of signatures to get before we'll ever see one.

I wouldn't imagine we'll see anything until late '06 at the earliest.


"That Others May Zoom"

PhoenixRisen

Well, I wonder if this is all going to be a waste... look at this:

Quote from: American Forces Press Service11/30/2005 - WASHINGTON (AFPN) -- A new, standardized identification card is being developed for all federal employees.

The new card will replace the common access cards that military personnel, government civilians and contractors now hold, said Mary Dixon, deputy director of the Defense Manpower Data Center.

The new cards will look much the same as CACs, with a few changes, Mrs. Dixon said. The color scheme will be different and more information will be embedded in the card, she said.

The added information will be a biometric of two fingerprints, to be used for identification purposes, and a string of numbers that will allow physical access to buildings, Mrs. Dixon said.

The biggest change will be the addition of wireless technology, which will allow the cards to be read by a machine from a short distance away, Mrs. Dixon said. This will make the new cards much easier to use for access to buildings than CACs, which must be swiped through a reader, she said.

The new cards themselves will not be enough to grant access to all federal buildings, Mrs. Dixon said. Rather, they will be checked against each building's database to determine if an individual has access.

A prototype of the new card is being developed and will be finalized in the next couple of months, Mrs. Dixon said. The cards will be issued starting in October 2006 to all military personnel, government civilians and qualified contractors. In the Defense Department, all employees should have the new cards within three and a half years, she said. A timeline has not been set for the rest of the federal government.

by Army Sgt. Sara Wood
American Forces Press Service

arajca

I don't think so because:
1. CAP members are not federal employees due to CAP (although it gets fuzzy when we perform AF missions)
2. CAP isn't eligible to get DoD Common Access Cards
3. Cost embedded chip technology is relatively expensive considering the number of cards CAP would need compared to the number of CAP members who would actually benefit from them.

Having a more professional photo id card is ONE step toward improving our image with other ES organizations. We would look less like a "fly-by-night" organization.

NIN

Honestly, I think you'll see a CAC-like card (minus the expensive embedded chip technology, since we have ZERO need for that kind of thing. We can't even read the @#$% barcodes on the cards we have now!) with very obvious CAP information on it.

It is my understanding that when the original discussions were undertaken at the Air Staff level, the AF's ID honchos had no problem with CAP having a CAC-like card and in fact encouraged it.  There were many designs (two of which could be seen at CAPBlog, I think) that were tried out.

The arguements against a CAC-type card seem to stem from the idea that some hapless Security Forces A1C, not realizing what CAP is, will give SM Bluebag the keys to the nuclear launch codes or something.  I have tell you, that arguement is a non-starter, and has been proven to be a non-starter by the folks in the field who are doing the job.

The long and the short of it: if we were to get a CAC-like card, I hardly think that we would that easily be mistaken for something we're not.  Along with the introduction of a new ID card would come "base-level education" from the AF ID honchos so that A1C Snuffy at the gate of Podunk AFB will not hand over the keys to the kingdom to the wrong guy. Its already in place. The Security Forces personnel can successfully (and, oddly enough, without tremendous amounts of training) ID those people who are and are not allowed access to a specific base, facility, installation, etc. (ie. DoD civilians or contractors vs. active duty military vs. dependents vs. reservists, etc)  Those safeguard already exist and its not likely you will find C/SSgt Bagodonuts wandering among the cocked fighters on an alert ramp someplace because the guy at the gate thought "CAP" was "Combat Air Patrol."

Heck, that "base-level education" might actually get us some more recruits, even, and finally AF gate guards might stop saying "What is Civil Air Patrol?"



Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Cadet Bonnett

we ware going to get the cards.
Cadet A1C Christin Bonnett
Registered Peer Mediator
SET, GES Certified
NH Wing

El Campamento del Ala de NH aquí yo vengo.

PhoenixRisen

Quote from: Cadet Bonnett on December 09, 2005, 01:50:37 AM
we ware going to get the cards.

They said (or at least what i've heard) is that you will upload your photo on e-services (like you do for your 101 card) and they (NHQ) will send it to you.

Matt

Quote from: CALcadet144 on December 09, 2005, 10:35:52 PM
Quote from: Cadet Bonnett on December 09, 2005, 01:50:37 AM
we ware going to get the cards.

They said (or at least what i've heard) is that you will upload your photo on e-services (like you do for your 101 card) and they (NHQ) will send it to you.

If they have the response time with this as they did with some Form 27s, well, we may as well just use colored pencils to make them.
<a href=mailto:mkopp@ncr.cap.gov> Matthew Kopp</a>, Maj, CAP
Director of Information Technology
<a href=https://www.ncrcap.us.org> North Central Region</a>

mmouw

I was in e-services yesterday and noticed the prepaid ID card shortcut. Does anyone know what the new ID card is going to look like? Is it the CAC look alike or the other disappointment?
Mike Mouw
Commander, Iowa Wing

dwb

Since the thread was bumped...

Quote from: Matt on December 09, 2005, 11:10:08 PMIf they have the response time with this as they did with some Form 27s, well, we may as well just use colored pencils to make them.

;D -- but seriously, very rarely have I had a bad experience with NHQ.  They'll process anything you send to them in a timely manner.  Form 27s are generally held up at the Wing level, not National.  Such was the case with mine, anyway.  The Wing Commander decided he didn't want to do any work for a few months.

I'm sure NHQ will turn around these cards as fast as their supplier will let them.

Pylon

Quote from: mmouw
I was in e-services yesterday and noticed the prepaid ID card shortcut. Does anyone know what the new ID card is going to look like? Is it the CAC look alike or the other disappointment?

From what I understand, CAP was going for a redesigned CAC lookalike card for this run.  The CAP command shield took the place of the CAP seal, and "US Air Force Auxiliary" was removed in favor of "Civil Air Patrol" instead on the shield.  The blue stripe, I believe, however -- was also removed.

I bought one... it's just 4 bucks, so if I get stiffed I'm not going to miss it.  Perhaps I'll have to have one less Starbucks Latte.   ;D   So we'll see when (and if) they produce them....
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

Eclipse

There is (or was) a link on eServices for the card with a note that the cards would not be available until the end of the year. Since we don't know how long it was there, we're assuming that mean 2006.

One of our people called the Personnel Directorate and they indicated thay had no idea it was even there.

Considering the pending budget cuts, my bet is we don't see any action on this which incurs costs.

"That Others May Zoom"

Viper

The ID card will look something like this:



When my PC is up and running again, I'll post THE  picture.  It's available on the National Commander's Video Update.

Eclipse

Or...

You could just go here:  http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=66.120

There's about 5 thread on this here alone...

"That Others May Zoom"

Viper

Quote from: Viper on March 16, 2006, 01:30:05 AM
The ID card will look something like this:



When my PC is up and running again, I'll post THE  picture.  It's available on the National Commander's Video Update.

Sorry it took so long, but here's the latest picture that was also posted on CadetStuff