Possible Faker

[ol'fido]

From Ned:

Because in most situations, there is a First Amendment right to lie about things...

The other side of the coin is that you, and that Court, is saying that everyone has a right to deceive the public. This would not be a nice place if most of the people decided they have no responsibility to be honest and do the right thing towards others...

Flyer

OTOH, he DOES have the right to lie and deceive about his CAP service, but YOU also have the right NOT TO BELIEVE, TO BE VIGILANT ABOUT SUCH PERSONS, AND TRY TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ABOUT SUCH INDIVIDUALS.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Why the heck are you using ALL CAPS as if I stated you do not have the right to not believe, not vigilant, or not educate? That is not the point. The point is that everyone should strive to make it a better society for everyone!

Flyer

[MSG Mac]

From Ned:

Because in most situations, there is a First Amendment right to lie about things...

The other side of the coin is that you, and that Court, is saying that everyone has a right to deceive the public. This would not be a nice place if most of the people decided they have no responsibility to be honest and do the right thing towards others...

Flyer

NO! The Supreme Court of the United States said that lying is a First Amendment Right. Ned is the wrong judge to blame.

[a2capt]

Lets not forget there are other courts besides the legal system.

You can say anything you want to ..  the court will decide.

[ol'fido]

Why the heck are you using ALL CAPS as if I stated you do not have the right to not believe, not vigilant, or not educate? That is not the point. The point is that everyone should strive to make it a better society for everyone!

Flyer

I believe you are right to believe that everyone should strive to make it a better society for everyone. Perhaps my use of all caps was to reiterate that the burden is on you to do what you can do and not trust the altruism of other people in all circumstances. This may sound very cynical but I have worked in a correctional facility for over 20 years and witness daily people who practice deception in situations where there is no reason, advantage, or profit to do so. Some people are just wired or programmed differently. They are pathological liars. In this instance, the pathological lie is protected speech until there is more legislation or judicial precedence to try and curb it. However, all the laws in the world do not stop behavior, they just deal with it after the fact in most cases of ingrained dishonesty. If good intentions and laws actually worked like that, Chicago would be one of the safest places in the country.

[LSThiker]

So I am curious, because I do not know, how this CAP Knowledgebase answer would play into this:

A former senior member is wearing the CAP uniform and getting certain privileges by claiming that he is a Civil Air Patrol member. What power does CAP have for dealing with people like this?

As you can see below, a  federal statutory disposition exists with reference to this type of situation. However, I suggest you coordinate this matter with your Unit Commander,Wing Commander and the Wing/Group Legal Officer so that they may take appropriate corrective action (e.g.,formal verbal and written request to cease and desist). In the event the subject individual still refuses to comply, they may then seek assistance of  a proper law enforcement agency with jurisdiction on the matter to file appropriate criminal charges, if need be.

See below US Code Title 18 U.S.C. Section 702, which in its pertinent part reads as follows:

TITLE 18. CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I. CRIMES
CHAPTER 33. EMBLEMS, INSIGNIA, AND NAMES
Go to the United States Code Service Archive Directory
18 USCS § 702

§ 702.  Uniform of armed forces and Public Health Service
Whoever, in any place within the jurisdiction of the United States or in the Canal Zone, without authority, wears the uniform or a distinctive part thereof or anything similar to a distinctive part of the uniform of any of the armed forces of the United States, Public Health Service or any auxiliary of such, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
HISTORY:   (June 25, 1948, ch 645, § 1, 62 Stat. 732; May 24, 1949, ch 139, § 15, 63 Stat. 91; Sept. 13, 1994, P.L. 103-322, Title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(E), 108 Stat. 2146.)

[Ned]

So I am curious, because I do not know, how this CAP Knowledgebase answer would play into this:

I think the biggest problem with either CAP or LE taking any sort of official action is that it appears that the guy in question is not currently wearing CAP uniforms or insignia.  Instead, it appears that he is using an old(?) picture that casts a misleading impression.

In a former life I spent a year as a prosecutor with the responsibility to review incoming cases from LE and decide what, if any charges, should be filed.  From what we have seen so far, I would not have been able to file any criminal charges on these facts.

Again, the best way to deal with impersonators and stolen valor types is to make sure that the truth  is told; not litigation.  There's that old saying about wrestling with pigs . . .

[Flying Pig]

It takes a pretty extreme case to do anything with a real stolen valor situation.  And those generally require some sort of theft or personal gain to be involved.  Someone sporting a CAP uniform isn't going to get a second look. 

Ive dealt with a guy who runs a flight school based on telling people he was a green beret, combat diver and army helicopter pilot and has a wall full of fraudulent certificates and a forged DD214 he uses to give himself credibility.  He did a couple weeks in jail for thinking a judge would believe all of that..... but is still running the flight school.  Stolen Valor comes in many forms.   Jump up and down all you want, impersonating a CAP member isn't even on the radar.

[LSThiker]

Again, the best way to deal with impersonators and stolen valor types is to make sure that the truth  is told; not litigation.  There's that old saying about wrestling with pigs . . .

Sorry, I did not mean to imply taking LE action.  Nevertheless, you answered the question.  Thanks for the information.

Has CAP or any auxiliary ever invoked this law that you are aware of?

[Garibaldi]

I'm wondering how they manage to hold up under questioning by those who have BTDT. I know in my younger days I'd just tell people I was in the Air Force because it was easier than explain what CAP was, and why I did it for free, etc etc ad nauseum. One day I actually got backed in a corner by someone in the REAL Air Force and I had to do a lot of backpedaling and "Um, er, well" and vowed never to do it again. Just makes me wonder how they keep it up. Case of "keep lying to yourself and pretty soon you begin to believe it"?

[NIN]

I'm wondering how they manage to hold up under questioning by those who have BTDT. I know in my younger days I'd just tell people I was in the Air Force because it was easier than explain what CAP was, and why I did it for free, etc etc ad nauseum. One day I actually got backed in a corner by someone in the REAL Air Force and I had to do a lot of backpedaling and "Um, er, well" and vowed never to do it again. Just makes me wonder how they keep it up. Case of "keep lying to yourself and pretty soon you begin to believe it"?

Yeah, there is certainly that ragged edge between "Not going into exhaustive detail" and "not misrepresenting".

I've been in a similar situation where I sort of casually said "I spent 28 years in Air Force blue" and suddenly I'm getting the 3rd degree from a guy who was a retired AF SMSgt. 

I didn't backpedal, I just said "I was a CAP cadet for 6 years, and a CAP adult officer for 22.." and he said "Why didn't you just say that?"

"Because saying 'I'm was the Civil Air Patrol' *always* results in 'What is that?' and then 5 minutes of explaining what CAP is vs the USAF.  Ain't nobody got time for that."   He totally understood that.

[Storm Chaser]

I'm wondering how they manage to hold up under questioning by those who have BTDT. I know in my younger days I'd just tell people I was in the Air Force because it was easier than explain what CAP was, and why I did it for free, etc etc ad nauseum. One day I actually got backed in a corner by someone in the REAL Air Force and I had to do a lot of backpedaling and "Um, er, well" and vowed never to do it again. Just makes me wonder how they keep it up. Case of "keep lying to yourself and pretty soon you begin to believe it"?

Yeah, there is certainly that ragged edge between "Not going into exhaustive detail" and "not misrepresenting".

I've been in a similar situation where I sort of casually said "I spent 28 years in Air Force blue" and suddenly I'm getting the 3rd degree from a guy who was a retired AF SMSgt. 

I didn't backpedal, I just said "I was a CAP cadet for 6 years, and a CAP adult officer for 22.." and he said "Why didn't you just say that?"

"Because saying 'I'm was the Civil Air Patrol' *always* results in 'What is that?' and then 5 minutes of explaining what CAP is vs the USAF.  Ain't nobody got time for that."   He totally understood that.

The problem is that even if it wasn't your intention, saying "I spent 28 years in Air Force blue" can be misconstrued as you having spent 28 years in the Air Force. It's just better to call what it is and explain it if needed.

I've been in the Air Force for 18 years (active, guard and reserve), but when I'm in CAP uniform and someone asks, I proudly say that I'm in the Civil Air Patrol. I see it as a great PA and recruiting opportunity.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

What I tell people is this:

"I am an officer in the Civil Air Patrol, which is the volunteer Auxiliary of the Air Force.  We are very broadly and loosely comparable to a Reserve component, except that we are civilians who serve as and when we are available.  We are not combatant and have missions of Emergency Services, including Search and Rescue tasked by the Air Force, Aerospace Education and Cadet Programmes.  Do you have any questions?  I would be glad to answer."

[JK657]

And in other poser news: MSgt Soup Sandwhich has passed away. I'm sure you remember him and his awesome Air Force Uniform
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=40011

[Private Investigator]

Fakers are interesting.

Now back in the 1960s didn't we just called them, "characters"? Every now and then grandpa (WWI Vet) or my Dad or Uncle (all WWII Vets) would punch a "character" in the nose.

Interesting how society has changed. 

[VNY]

a forged DD214

Forget whatever he hangs on the wall for decoration.  THIS is your prosecutable crime.

[Garibaldi]

What I tell people is this:

"I am an officer in the Civil Air Patrol, which is the volunteer Auxiliary of the Air Force.  We are very broadly and loosely comparable to a Reserve component, except that we are civilians who serve as and when we are available.  We are not combatant and have missions of Emergency Services, including Search and Rescue tasked by the Air Force, Aerospace Education and Cadet Programmes.  Do you have any questions?  I would be glad to answer."

This.

[Panache]

Interesting how society has changed. 

Yeah, but nowadays the last thing you want to do is hurt somebody's feelings and/or mind-oppress their feeling-thoughts.

[Flying Pig]

a forged DD214

Forget whatever he hangs on the wall for decoration.  THIS is your prosecutable crime.

Or..... When you hand it to a judge as part of your character reference package not knowing the judge has already been told it's a fake

[PHall]

a forged DD214

Forget whatever he hangs on the wall for decoration.  THIS is your prosecutable crime.

Or..... When you hand it to a judge as part of your character reference package not knowing the judge has already been told it's a fake

So how hard was it to not bust out laughing in court Rob?