Another possible faker outed on a popular blog. Some of the pics show him in a CAP uniform but in the comments some CAP members say there is no record of him being a member. Thoughts?
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=39855 (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=39855)
Interesting. The gentleman also says he has a PhD. I'd love to see those credentials.
Best,
Allen Kem Fronabarger, PhD, Capt. CAP
(yup, I'm a bona fide) chuckle.
Quote from: DrKem on February 20, 2014, 12:26:51 AM
Interesting. The gentleman also says he has a PhD. I'd love to see those credentials.
Best,
Allen Kem Fronabarger, PhD, Capt. CAP
(yup, I'm a bona fide) chuckle.
Your last name is "Fronabarger?"
Ok, thats cool. You win at crazy last names.
Piled high & Deeper. ;)
Quote from: JK657 on February 19, 2014, 11:02:23 PMSome of the pics show him in a CAP uniform but in the comments some CAP members say there is no record of him being a member. Thoughts?
It is beyond my comprehension why someone would fake having CAP rank...
The bad part is, his uniform (from what I can see) looks pretty good.
Unfortunately, it is entirely possible he did earn Lt Col some time ago. The CAP picture he has is Capt with blue epaulets.
Quote from: raivo on February 20, 2014, 01:50:23 AM
Quote from: JK657 on February 19, 2014, 11:02:23 PMSome of the pics show him in a CAP uniform but in the comments some CAP members say there is no record of him being a member. Thoughts?
It is beyond my comprehension why someone would fake having CAP rank...
Aw, I haven't updated my .sig in a while. I just recently promoted to Grand Imperial Potentate High Llama Grand Poobah General First Rank Super Marshall Field Hockey Supervisor Generalissimo in the Civil Combat Air Scouts Patrol. I fly the highly venerated AC-145034 and shot down many Iranian F-16s over the Turkish Desert in the Great War for Constantinople (Formerly Istanbul). Now I know most of you will find my claims spurious and unverifiable but I tell you, it's all true. I have my DoDo Form 24414 to prove it.
Quote from: Garibaldi on February 20, 2014, 03:00:52 AMAw, I haven't updated my .sig in a while.
That's nobody's business but the Ottomans'..
Anybody else notice he is wearing a blue colored nametag in pic 2 with blue CAP insignia with white railroad tracks from "SOS" dated 2011? For those of us who are real members we know the only ones who wear blue and white nametags are cadets. This has been the way it was since WIWAC in 1996.
There is no record of him in e-services. At least in OpsQuals.
Here is another link with additional photos and information:
http://scotty-stolenvaloroffendersexposed.blogspot.com/2014/02/dennis-chevalier-retired-lt-col-us-air.html (http://scotty-stolenvaloroffendersexposed.blogspot.com/2014/02/dennis-chevalier-retired-lt-col-us-air.html)
Quote from: Jaison009 on February 20, 2014, 04:16:56 AM
Anybody else notice he is wearing a blue colored nametag in pic 2 with blue CAP insignia with white railroad tracks from "SOS" dated 2011? For those of us who are real members we know the only ones who wear blue and white nametags are cadets. This has been the way it was since WIWAC in 1996.
He's also wearing Blue Epaulets. He also has Hair in that Picture which leads me to think this picture was taken quite some time ago...probably around the same time that the Senior Members also had Blue Nameplates. I had a Blue Nameplate and the Maroon epaulets when I first joined as a Senior in 1992
Quote from: RogueLeader on February 20, 2014, 04:24:32 AM
There is no record of him in e-services. At least in OpsQuals.
eServices and Opsquals only show current members. According to some of the information provided on one of the other sites it appears he "retired" from CAP in 2011.
What throws up a red flag for me is him posing in his AF blues with metal Lt. Col. grade insignia on his service coat and US lapels. His comment was that they were switching between blue, maroon, and gray epaulets so he just "left them off" for the picture.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DHzLju_QT0A/UwE4ClOXm0I/AAAAAAAAIJ0/HJtVBAkFNOA/s1600/16-a.PNG)
^^^^ yeah. I saw that too. "It was just for the Picture" Sure it was.
Quote from: Jaison009 on February 20, 2014, 04:16:56 AM
Anybody else notice he is wearing a blue colored nametag in pic 2 with blue CAP insignia with white railroad tracks from "SOS" dated 2011? For those of us who are real members we know the only ones who wear blue and white nametags are cadets. This has been the way it was since WIWAC in 1996.
Well the 2011 date is when it was posted to the forum, not necessarily when it was taken. Remember, we were wearing blue epaulets back in like the late 80s. We went from metal on the service coat/blue epaulets on shirt to maroon epaulets to gray epaulet all in the late 80s early 90s. So again, it is possible that at one point in time (not necessarily current or today), he was a CAP Lt Col. Of course the SOS is probably a fabrication and he really meant SLS or simply another program back then that used SOS or just a complete lie. So he probably is not a current CAP member, but at least at one point in time he was a member.
Not in the db cuz he's CAP special ops. Duh!
Quote from: NIN on February 20, 2014, 11:02:59 AM
Not in the db cuz he's CAP special ops. Duh!
I always forget about SOCCAP
Quote from: GroundHawg on February 20, 2014, 02:27:47 PM
Quote from: NIN on February 20, 2014, 11:02:59 AM
Not in the db cuz he's CAP special ops. Duh!
I always forget about SOCCAP
<Jedi Mindtrick Wave>
This isn't the squadron you're thinking of
</Jedi Mindtrick Wave>
Quote from: GroundHawg on February 20, 2014, 02:27:47 PM
Quote from: NIN on February 20, 2014, 11:02:59 AM
Not in the db cuz he's CAP special ops. Duh!
I always forget about SOCCAP
The black 182's will be by shortly for a reeducation session.
If he's truly an Air Force retired Lt Col, then why is he a junior enlisted with the Texas State Guard? They usually give you a grade comparable to your former military grade.
What really irks me about this story is, assuming he really WAS in CAP at some point, and assuming he really did make it to CAP Lieutenant Colonel, and I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say those badges and ribbons are legit... he put in a lot of work. And for what? To play wannabe? It's disheartening.
And it's also frustrating because if the allegations are true, I can totally see that he would be the type of person hanging around the PX trolling for salutes. >:(
Quote from: Storm Chaser on February 20, 2014, 05:18:44 PM
If he's truly an Air Force retired Lt Col, then why is he a junior enlisted with the Texas State Guard? They usually give you a grade comparable to your former military grade.
Clearly the Texas State Guard vets their members a little more stringently.
Like actually
looking at their DD-214.
According to his own social media sites, Lt Col Chevalier, CAP (ret) was a member from 1982 to 2013. Doing a little digging on the world-wide-web-of-knowledge, what I found shows he was on TXWG staff from 2003 to at least 2006 and was in a TXWG squadron in 2010. He attended SLS, RSC and NSC and has a GRW. I just found this stuff, I can't verify any of it.
Mike
Quote from: sardak on February 20, 2014, 09:08:05 PM
According to his own social media sites, Lt Col Chevalier, CAP (ret) was a member from 1982 to 2013. Doing a little digging on the world-wide-web-of-knowledge, what I found shows he was on TXWG staff from 2003 to at least 2006 and was in a TXWG squadron in 2010. He attended SLS, RSC and NSC and has a GRW. I just found this stuff, I can't verify any of it.
Mike
1982 - so that's probably why he had the blue slides. In recent years they're quite difficult to find (from a collector's perspective), even on EvilBay.
I still have a couple of pairs of blue epaulet slides for FO, TFO, SFO and Captain in my collection from my early days as a senior member.
I also have maroon slides for SFO, Captain and Major. Of course nobody actually wants those. ;D
Also, interesting to note is the last time the FAA had a valid medical for Denny was in Aug 1994 and it was a third class. I seriously doubt he is a command pilot. He is a single engine land commercial pilot according to the FAA.
If I was a commercial pilot with at least 2000 hours, I would fight to get and keep a valid medical no matter my condition. I have worked with guys that have had heart attacks and nearly sold their children into slavery to get a medical back and those were the mild manner guys. 2000+ hour guys don't settle and those that do, don't wear their wings anymore.
Lt Col Chevalier (brasshat) has been a member of CAP Talk since 2005!
Mike
Quote from: Panache on February 20, 2014, 05:13:24 AM
What throws up a red flag for me is him posing in his AF blues with metal Lt. Col. grade insignia on his service coat and US lapels. His comment was that they were switching between blue, maroon, and gray epaulets so he just "left them off" for the picture.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DHzLju_QT0A/UwE4ClOXm0I/AAAAAAAAIJ0/HJtVBAkFNOA/s1600/16-a.PNG)
Just out of curiosity and in an attempt to lock down a date of this photo: When did the US pins replace CAP on officer uniforms?
Quote from: JK657 on February 21, 2014, 02:24:08 AM
Quote from: Panache on February 20, 2014, 05:13:24 AM
What throws up a red flag for me is him posing in his AF blues with metal Lt. Col. grade insignia on his service coat and US lapels. His comment was that they were switching between blue, maroon, and gray epaulets so he just "left them off" for the picture.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DHzLju_QT0A/UwE4ClOXm0I/AAAAAAAAIJ0/HJtVBAkFNOA/s1600/16-a.PNG)
Just out of curiosity and in an attempt to lock down a date of this photo: When did the US pins replace CAP on officer uniforms?
Sometime in the late 1990s, or early 2000's
Just out of curiosity and in an attempt to lock down a date of this photo: When did the US pins replace CAP on officer uniforms?
Around 1995. I was a cadet when the switch was made and remember buying the US cutouts at WPAFB.
To a faker, it matters not when the change was.. they're already not using the correct stuff ;)
I searched for Dennis H. Chevalier Linked In profile and when I found it with his picture in Google, I got the following message when I clicked on it:
Quote
An exact match for docchevalier could not be found.
I thought that was strange as it had the same picture posted with his ACUs.
I found another profile with the same name, which stated the following under Summary:
Quote
Professional Investigator, Jury profiling, Criminal Profiling of violent serial rapists.
Expert in deception recognition.
We specialize in those that steal Valor under the Stolen Valor Act of 2006.
Member of the Texas Military Forces (Army Division -NCO)
Professional; educator, University Adjunct, combative arms instructor
Certified Medical Investigator by the American Board of Medicine and the ACFEI and Certified by the Board of Homeland Security.
Texas DPS CHL instructor
Federal Firearms License dealer
He list his experience as a Non-Comissioned Officer with the Texas State Guard (2 years), a Chief Investigator with Chevalier and Associates (almost 28 years), a PI Company Owner of PI Industries (28 years) and Lt Col and Mission Pilot with Civil Air Patrol (almost 32 years; retired). There's no mention of his alleged service in the U.S. Air Force.
On education, he says he has a Master of Science in CJ (Criminal Justice?) from Colorado Technical University. No mention of a Ph.D. or any other doctorate degree.
What I found most interesting is that under his Chief Investigator job he describes the following:
Quote
We profile serial rapists and catch them.
We perform investigations of all types and provide a free service on exposing people that steal Valor and impersonate U.S. Military forces that wear awards they didn't earn..
Is it the same person? Unfortunately, I didn't see any pictures with this profile to confirm it. ???
Strange. I can no longer find his profile in Linked In. Hmm... I did find the following link:
http://www.yatedo.com/p/Dennis+Chevalier/normal/894a775ee6f8393c13bfd98260a923ff (http://www.yatedo.com/p/Dennis+Chevalier/normal/894a775ee6f8393c13bfd98260a923ff)
From what I understand, it IS confirmed that he is a currently a Corporal in the Texas State Guard, so "NCO" would be accurate.
When you find people via Google, pointing at Linked In, you can see more if you are logged out. (of Linked In)
It tries to sucker you into paying to upgrade otherwise.
He may have smoked his Linked In due to getting the attention, too.
I checked his linkedin yesterday (free premium trial) and thats the right person.
There is nothing "confusing" or "possible" about it. He's a flat out liar, plain and simple.
CAP doesn't need people like him. I'd be curious to see what he listed on his application.
He is a faker and it does not surprise me. We have some strange folks on a CAP Talk and even stranger people in CAP, JMHO and YMMV 8)
If I put on my CAP application that I served 4 years as Presidentof theUnited States, do you think it would get by Suzie Parker?
Maybe he meant to say he was a retired Lt Col in CAP and typing USAF was just a "mistake". :P
It's hard to say. Either way, he could either clarify this "mistake" or provide the evidence requested.
Quote from: Storm Chaser on February 22, 2014, 12:33:44 AM
Maybe he meant to say he was a retired Lt Col in CAP and typing USAF was just a "mistake". :P
It's hard to say. Either way, he could either clarify this "mistake" or provide the evidence requested.
That was his argument. The actual signature is really USAF Aux but it has been cropped out.
Senior Members where still wearing CAP cutouts on the Service Coat and BDUs when I left in 99. We went to the Grey slides and nameplates around 96.
Quote from: Storm Chaser on February 22, 2014, 12:33:44 AM
Maybe he meant to say he was a retired Lt Col in CAP and typing USAF was just a "mistake". :P
It's hard to say. Either way, he could either clarify this "mistake" or provide the evidence requested.
There was no mistake. He is a liar!
This was just one of several major lies he told.
Quote from: LSThiker on February 22, 2014, 12:39:04 AMThat was his argument. The actual signature is really USAF Aux but it has been cropped out.
Backtrack backfill. :)
Quote from: abdsp51 on February 22, 2014, 03:32:31 AM
Senior Members where still wearing CAP cutouts on the Service Coat and BDUs when I left in 99. We went to the Grey slides and nameplates around 96.
Double check. The US cutouts were approved by CSAF Fogleman when he referenced CAP as being part of the "Total Force." He stepped down in 1997.
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on February 22, 2014, 05:42:32 AM
Double check. The US cutouts were approved by CSAF Fogleman when he referenced CAP as being part of the "Total Force." He stepped down in 1997.
There is a change highlight bar next to the US cutouts in the 1997 CAPM 39-1.
Quote from: BillB on February 21, 2014, 11:55:39 PM
If I put on my CAP application that I served 4 years as Presidentof theUnited States, do you think it would get by Suzie Parker?
If your name were BillC, maybe 8. ;)
Quote from: LSThiker on February 20, 2014, 05:18:09 AM
Quote from: Jaison009 on February 20, 2014, 04:16:56 AM
Anybody else notice he is wearing a blue colored nametag in pic 2 with blue CAP insignia with white railroad tracks from "SOS" dated 2011? For those of us who are real members we know the only ones who wear blue and white nametags are cadets. This has been the way it was since WIWAC in 1996.
Well the 2011 date is when it was posted to the forum, not necessarily when it was taken. Remember, we were wearing blue epaulets back in like the late 80s. We went from metal on the service coat/blue epaulets on shirt to maroon epaulets to gray epaulet all in the late 80s early 90s. So again, it is possible that at one point in time (not necessarily current or today), he was a CAP Lt Col. Of course the SOS is probably a fabrication and he really meant SLS or simply another program back then that used SOS or just a complete lie. So he probably is not a current CAP member, but at least at one point in time he was a member.
The only way that photo of him with the short sleeve AF Blue shirt, with the dark blue CAP Captain epaulets and white-on-blue 3-line CAP nameplate could be correct, would be if that particular photo was taken sometime in the time period 1978 through 1992. In 1992, CAP changed to the maroon epaulets worn with the same white-on-blue 3-line nameplate, and in 1995 changed to the current grey epaulets and white-on-grey 3-line nameplate design that we still wear today. Even with that being a photo in a completely valid, authorised uniform from 1992 or before, his claim that it was taken at SOS seems a bit dubious. While CAP members of that era in the grade of Captain or above could have taken the Air Force Squadron Officer School as CAP members via the Air Force Extension Course Institute, with tests being sent to Wing HQ for the examination, no CAP member who was not also a member of the active AF or Reserve or Air National Guard as a Captain or above could attend the "in-residence" version during the time period that that uniform was authorised . If by the comment in that photo, he intended to say that the photo was taken at a CAP Squadron Leadership School (which, while it is an excellent CAP training activity, is in no way the same thing as AF SOS, even by correspondence), which to me screams "poser".
Quote from: Panache on February 20, 2014, 05:13:24 AM
What throws up a red flag for me is him posing in his AF blues with metal Lt. Col. grade insignia on his service coat and US lapels. His comment was that they were switching between blue, maroon, and gray epaulets so he just "left them off" for the picture.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-DHzLju_QT0A/UwE4ClOXm0I/AAAAAAAAIJ0/HJtVBAkFNOA/s1600/16-a.PNG)
If anyone looks closely, the cut of the service coat that he is wearing is the new style Service dress uniform, with the "Hap Arnold" buttons, that the Air Force adopted in 1993. We must therefore assume that this particular service dress photo was taken no earlier than 1993. While CAP was authorised to wear metal grade insignia on the shoulder straps, of the service dress uniform, this was authorised on the AF-distinctive (and earlier AAF-distinctive) uniforms, for the period 1941 through 1992. If it were the "old style" AF service dress (similar to what the actors portraying AF officers in the "I Dream of Jeannie" wore on that television series), then the CAP devices would have been correct through 1992, but only on the old style service coat. And even then, the silver U.S. collar brass was NEVER authorised on the CAP uniform at the same time as metal grade insignia, and would not replace the "CAP" cutouts on the lapels until 1995. Even counting that short period of time in 1992 that CAP members wore the maroon CAP "circlet" on the shoulder straps of the service coat, it was still a period of almost 3 YEARS between CAP wearing metal grade insignia and authorisation to wear the U.S. collar brass, which to me still screams "poser".
Methinks something is rotten in Denmark... and boy, does it stink!
Quote from: AlphaSigOU on February 22, 2014, 06:30:02 PM
Methinks something is rotten in Denmark... and boy, does it stink!
Not in Denmark...in Texas, and it sure isn't Longhorn crap in the hot sun.
I wonder if his commander in the TX State Guard has been made aware of this?
Quote from: CyBorg on February 22, 2014, 06:57:51 PM
I wonder if his commander in the TX State Guard has been made aware of this?
More accurately: "how many times?"
Holy cow! This thing has taken off. As what happens so often, it started with the discovery of one lie and now a whole can has been opened. Read the comments on TAH... Even Tesla's thread didn't get this much attention!
Quote from: JK657 on February 22, 2014, 07:48:10 PM
Holy cow! This thing has taken off. As what happens so often, it started with the discovery of one lie and now a whole can has been opened. Read the comments on TAH... Even Tesla's thread didn't get this much attention!
The TAH threads that get great attention are usually the ones where the faker makes grandiose threats toward the accusers that wind up being completely off base.. :)
Quote from: NIN on February 22, 2014, 07:17:57 PM
Quote from: CyBorg on February 22, 2014, 06:57:51 PM
I wonder if his commander in the TX State Guard has been made aware of this?
More accurately: "how many times?"
Point taken. And if he is a Corporal in the TXSG, he may well be kissing those stripes bye-bye.
Quote from: NIN on February 22, 2014, 07:52:55 PM
Quote from: JK657 on February 22, 2014, 07:48:10 PM
Holy cow! This thing has taken off. As what happens so often, it started with the discovery of one lie and now a whole can has been opened. Read the comments on TAH... Even Tesla's thread didn't get this much attention!
The TAH threads that get great attention are usually the ones where the faker makes grandiose threats toward the accusers that wind up being completely off base.. :)
And they were. The backtracking and threats were very evident, and not taken very seriously due to the serious grammatical errors made by this so-called PhD.
So, where are all those NHQ legal beagles who press companies about manufacturing CAP insignia? Yeah, I get it cheaper to sue a corporation about producing than to pursue a faker.
Quote from: flyboy1 on February 23, 2014, 01:28:13 PM
So, where are all those NHQ legal beagles who press companies about manufacturing CAP insignia? Yeah, I get it cheaper to sue a corporation about producing than to pursue a faker.
Colonel,
Your comment is a little unfair.
1. NHQ has a total of one "legal beagle" on staff, our General Counsel.
2. We have never spent a significant amount of money sueing anyone about producing anything. Because a letter usually works well in commercial applications. Letters are inexpensive.
3. Most importantly, there are no legal remedies available to CAP in most faker situations. Because in most situations, there is a First Amendment right to lie about things, including CAP service. Even for something like actual military service. Most of the Stolen Valor act was found unconstitutional on that basis.
The most effective response to someone telling lies is for someone else to tell the truth. Not litigation. And this thread (and similar efforts at TAH) are pretty good examples of an effective response.
One of the hardest things for any lawyer to say is "you can get better results by NOT bringing a lawsuit or sending a nasty letter."
QuoteFrom Ned:
Because in most situations, there is a First Amendment right to lie about things...
The other side of the coin is that you, and that Court, is saying that everyone has a right to deceive the public. This would not be a nice place if most of the people decided they have no responsibility to be honest and do the right thing towards others...
Flyer
Quote from: flyer333555 on February 23, 2014, 05:20:14 PM
QuoteFrom Ned:
Because in most situations, there is a First Amendment right to lie about things...
The other side of the coin is that you, and that Court, is saying that everyone has a right to deceive the public. This would not be a nice place if most of the people decided they have no responsibility to be honest and do the right thing towards others...
Flyer
OTOH, he DOES have the right to lie and deceive about his CAP service, but YOU also have the right NOT TO BELIEVE, TO BE VIGILANT ABOUT SUCH PERSONS, AND TRY TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC ABOUT SUCH INDIVIDUALS.
Why the heck are you using ALL CAPS as if I stated you do not have the right to not believe, not vigilant, or not educate? That is not the point. The point is that everyone should strive to make it a better society for everyone!
Flyer
Quote from: flyer333555 on February 23, 2014, 05:20:14 PM
QuoteFrom Ned:
Because in most situations, there is a First Amendment right to lie about things...
The other side of the coin is that you, and that Court, is saying that everyone has a right to deceive the public. This would not be a nice place if most of the people decided they have no responsibility to be honest and do the right thing towards others...
Flyer
NO! The Supreme Court of the United States said that lying is a First Amendment Right. Ned is the wrong judge to blame.
Lets not forget there are other courts besides the legal system. :)
You can say anything you want to .. the court will decide. :)
Quote from: flyer333555 on February 23, 2014, 07:00:22 PM
Why the heck are you using ALL CAPS as if I stated you do not have the right to not believe, not vigilant, or not educate? That is not the point. The point is that everyone should strive to make it a better society for everyone!
Flyer
I believe you are right to believe that everyone should strive to make it a better society for everyone. Perhaps my use of all caps was to reiterate that the burden is on you to do what you can do and not trust the altruism of other people in all circumstances. This may sound very cynical but I have worked in a correctional facility for over 20 years and witness daily people who practice deception in situations where there is no reason, advantage, or profit to do so. Some people are just wired or programmed differently. They are pathological liars. In this instance, the pathological lie is protected speech until there is more legislation or judicial precedence to try and curb it. However, all the laws in the world do not stop behavior, they just deal with it after the fact in most cases of ingrained dishonesty. If good intentions and laws actually worked like that, Chicago would be one of the safest places in the country.
So I am curious, because I do not know, how this CAP Knowledgebase answer would play into this:
QuoteA former senior member is wearing the CAP uniform and getting certain privileges by claiming that he is a Civil Air Patrol member. What power does CAP have for dealing with people like this?
As you can see below, a federal statutory disposition exists with reference to this type of situation. However, I suggest you coordinate this matter with your Unit Commander,Wing Commander and the Wing/Group Legal Officer so that they may take appropriate corrective action (e.g.,formal verbal and written request to cease and desist). In the event the subject individual still refuses to comply, they may then seek assistance of a proper law enforcement agency with jurisdiction on the matter to file appropriate criminal charges, if need be.
See below US Code Title 18 U.S.C. Section 702, which in its pertinent part reads as follows:
TITLE 18. CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I. CRIMES
CHAPTER 33. EMBLEMS, INSIGNIA, AND NAMES
Go to the United States Code Service Archive Directory
18 USCS § 702
§ 702. Uniform of armed forces and Public Health Service
Whoever, in any place within the jurisdiction of the United States or in the Canal Zone, without authority, wears the uniform or a distinctive part thereof or anything similar to a distinctive part of the uniform of any of the armed forces of the United States, Public Health Service or any auxiliary of such, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
HISTORY: (June 25, 1948, ch 645, § 1, 62 Stat. 732; May 24, 1949, ch 139, § 15, 63 Stat. 91; Sept. 13, 1994, P.L. 103-322, Title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(E), 108 Stat. 2146.)
Quote from: LSThiker on February 24, 2014, 12:27:41 AM
So I am curious, because I do not know, how this CAP Knowledgebase answer would play into this:
I think the biggest problem with either CAP or LE taking any sort of official action is that it appears that the guy in question is not
currently wearing CAP uniforms or insignia. Instead, it appears that he is using an old(?) picture that casts a misleading impression.
In a former life I spent a year as a prosecutor with the responsibility to review incoming cases from LE and decide what, if any charges, should be filed. From what we have seen so far, I would not have been able to file any criminal charges on these facts.
Again, the best way to deal with impersonators and stolen valor types is to make sure that the truth is told; not litigation. There's that old saying about wrestling with pigs . . .
It takes a pretty extreme case to do anything with a real stolen valor situation. And those generally require some sort of theft or personal gain to be involved. Someone sporting a CAP uniform isn't going to get a second look.
Ive dealt with a guy who runs a flight school based on telling people he was a green beret, combat diver and army helicopter pilot and has a wall full of fraudulent certificates and a forged DD214 he uses to give himself credibility. He did a couple weeks in jail for thinking a judge would believe all of that..... but is still running the flight school. Stolen Valor comes in many forms. Jump up and down all you want, impersonating a CAP member isn't even on the radar.
Quote from: Ned on February 24, 2014, 05:24:44 PM
Again, the best way to deal with impersonators and stolen valor types is to make sure that the truth is told; not litigation. There's that old saying about wrestling with pigs . . .
Sorry, I did not mean to imply taking LE action. Nevertheless, you answered the question. Thanks for the information.
Has CAP or any auxiliary ever invoked this law that you are aware of?
I'm wondering how they manage to hold up under questioning by those who have BTDT. I know in my younger days I'd just tell people I was in the Air Force because it was easier than explain what CAP was, and why I did it for free, etc etc ad nauseum. One day I actually got backed in a corner by someone in the REAL Air Force and I had to do a lot of backpedaling and "Um, er, well" and vowed never to do it again. Just makes me wonder how they keep it up. Case of "keep lying to yourself and pretty soon you begin to believe it"?
Quote from: Garibaldi on February 25, 2014, 02:23:23 AM
I'm wondering how they manage to hold up under questioning by those who have BTDT. I know in my younger days I'd just tell people I was in the Air Force because it was easier than explain what CAP was, and why I did it for free, etc etc ad nauseum. One day I actually got backed in a corner by someone in the REAL Air Force and I had to do a lot of backpedaling and "Um, er, well" and vowed never to do it again. Just makes me wonder how they keep it up. Case of "keep lying to yourself and pretty soon you begin to believe it"?
Yeah, there is certainly that ragged edge between "Not going into exhaustive detail" and "not misrepresenting".
I've been in a similar situation where I sort of casually said "I spent 28 years in Air Force blue" and suddenly I'm getting the 3rd degree from a guy who was a retired AF SMSgt.
I didn't backpedal, I just said "I was a CAP cadet for 6 years, and a CAP adult officer for 22.." and he said "Why didn't you just say that?"
"Because saying 'I'm was the Civil Air Patrol' *always* results in 'What is that?' and then 5 minutes of explaining what CAP is vs the USAF. Ain't nobody got time for that." He totally understood that.
Quote from: NIN on February 25, 2014, 11:36:27 AM
Quote from: Garibaldi on February 25, 2014, 02:23:23 AM
I'm wondering how they manage to hold up under questioning by those who have BTDT. I know in my younger days I'd just tell people I was in the Air Force because it was easier than explain what CAP was, and why I did it for free, etc etc ad nauseum. One day I actually got backed in a corner by someone in the REAL Air Force and I had to do a lot of backpedaling and "Um, er, well" and vowed never to do it again. Just makes me wonder how they keep it up. Case of "keep lying to yourself and pretty soon you begin to believe it"?
Yeah, there is certainly that ragged edge between "Not going into exhaustive detail" and "not misrepresenting".
I've been in a similar situation where I sort of casually said "I spent 28 years in Air Force blue" and suddenly I'm getting the 3rd degree from a guy who was a retired AF SMSgt.
I didn't backpedal, I just said "I was a CAP cadet for 6 years, and a CAP adult officer for 22.." and he said "Why didn't you just say that?"
"Because saying 'I'm was the Civil Air Patrol' *always* results in 'What is that?' and then 5 minutes of explaining what CAP is vs the USAF. Ain't nobody got time for that." He totally understood that.
The problem is that even if it wasn't your intention, saying "I spent 28 years in Air Force blue" can be misconstrued as you having spent 28 years in the Air Force. It's just better to call what it is and explain it if needed.
I've been in the Air Force for 18 years (active, guard and reserve), but when I'm in CAP uniform and someone asks, I proudly say that I'm in the Civil Air Patrol. I see it as a great PA and recruiting opportunity.
What I tell people is this:
"I am an officer in the Civil Air Patrol, which is the volunteer Auxiliary of the Air Force. We are very broadly and loosely comparable to a Reserve component, except that we are civilians who serve as and when we are available. We are not combatant and have missions of Emergency Services, including Search and Rescue tasked by the Air Force, Aerospace Education and Cadet Programmes. Do you have any questions? I would be glad to answer."
And in other poser news: MSgt Soup Sandwhich has passed away. I'm sure you remember him and his awesome Air Force Uniform
http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=40011 (http://thisainthell.us/blog/?p=40011)
Fakers are interesting.
Now back in the 1960s didn't we just called them, "characters"? Every now and then grandpa (WWI Vet) or my Dad or Uncle (all WWII Vets) would punch a "character" in the nose.
Interesting how society has changed. 8)
Quote from: Flying Pig on February 24, 2014, 05:52:43 PMa forged DD214
Forget whatever he hangs on the wall for decoration. THIS is your prosecutable crime.
Quote from: CyBorg on February 25, 2014, 08:15:23 PM
What I tell people is this:
"I am an officer in the Civil Air Patrol, which is the volunteer Auxiliary of the Air Force. We are very broadly and loosely comparable to a Reserve component, except that we are civilians who serve as and when we are available. We are not combatant and have missions of Emergency Services, including Search and Rescue tasked by the Air Force, Aerospace Education and Cadet Programmes. Do you have any questions? I would be glad to answer."
This.
Quote from: Private Investigator on February 25, 2014, 09:58:35 PM
Interesting how society has changed. 8)
Yeah, but nowadays the last thing you want to do is hurt somebody's feelings and/or mind-oppress their feeling-thoughts.
Quote from: VNY on February 25, 2014, 10:54:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on February 24, 2014, 05:52:43 PMa forged DD214
Forget whatever he hangs on the wall for decoration. THIS is your prosecutable crime.
Or..... When you hand it to a judge as part of your character reference package not knowing the judge has already been told it's a fake :)
Quote from: Flying Pig on February 26, 2014, 02:22:39 PM
Quote from: VNY on February 25, 2014, 10:54:19 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on February 24, 2014, 05:52:43 PMa forged DD214
Forget whatever he hangs on the wall for decoration. THIS is your prosecutable crime.
Or..... When you hand it to a judge as part of your character reference package not knowing the judge has already been told it's a fake :)
So how hard was it to not bust out laughing in court Rob? >:D
And for the hat trick this week:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Fiteam&id=9448327&vid=9448337 (http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Fiteam&id=9448327&vid=9448337)
Quote from: Panache on February 26, 2014, 04:54:28 AM
Quote from: Private Investigator on February 25, 2014, 09:58:35 PM
Interesting how society has changed. 8)
Yeah, but nowadays the last thing you want to do is hurt somebody's feelings and/or mind-oppress their feeling-thoughts.
Yes indeed. I hate to hurt a liar's feelings.
Quote from: JK657 on February 28, 2014, 06:02:26 PM
And for the hat trick this week:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Fiteam&id=9448327&vid=9448337 (http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Fiteam&id=9448327&vid=9448337)
Wow, that was a crazy story. Especially the part about the tequila and after midnight. :clap:
Unlike Decker, who still denies it, despite there being "evidence" on web pages and the like.
Owned. Right there on TV.
Whew, Tough Questions. I Guess im Lucky I havnt had People Question Me. Well I have, but not like that. I can "Prove" everything you want me to. Nothing Grinds my Gears more than a "Faker"
Quote from: Private Investigator on February 28, 2014, 08:18:34 PM
Quote from: JK657 on February 28, 2014, 06:02:26 PM
And for the hat trick this week:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Fiteam&id=9448327&vid=9448337 (http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Fiteam&id=9448327&vid=9448337)
Wow, that was a crazy story. Especially the part about the tequila and after midnight. :clap:
Well maybe after some tequila and around midnight, I could tell you all the story of how as a young lad I fueled the Wright Flyer for its powered flight. It is a little known fact...a footnote in history. ;D ;D
Quote from: Chappie on February 28, 2014, 08:41:35 PM
Quote from: Private Investigator on February 28, 2014, 08:18:34 PM
Quote from: JK657 on February 28, 2014, 06:02:26 PM
And for the hat trick this week:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Fiteam&id=9448327&vid=9448337 (http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Fiteam&id=9448327&vid=9448337)
Wow, that was a crazy story. Especially the part about the tequila and after midnight. :clap:
Well maybe after some tequila and around midnight, I could tell you all the story of how as a young lad I fueled the Wright Flyer for its powered flight. It is a little known fact...a footnote in history. ;D ;D
After midnight we all got a story ;)
Quote from: Chappie on February 28, 2014, 08:41:35 PM
Well maybe after some tequila and around midnight, I could tell you all the story of how as a young lad I fueled the Wright Flyer for its powered flight. It is a little known fact...a footnote in history. ;D ;D
Hey, I remember you!
Little known fact: I was the Orville's crew chief.
Quote from: NIN on February 28, 2014, 09:02:07 PM
Quote from: Chappie on February 28, 2014, 08:41:35 PM
Well maybe after some tequila and around midnight, I could tell you all the story of how as a young lad I fueled the Wright Flyer for its powered flight. It is a little known fact...a footnote in history. ;D ;D
Hey, I remember you!
Little known fact: I was the Orville's crew chief.
Fun times had by all...thanks for the reminder that you were there too. Weren't you the one that went chasing after Orville's bowler when it blew off???? At my age the memory fades a bit...but the tequila after midnight kicks it into high gear ;D
Quote from: Devil Doc on February 28, 2014, 08:38:12 PM
Whew, Tough Questions. I Guess im Lucky I havnt had People Question Me. Well I have, but not like that. I can "Prove" everything you want me to. Nothing Grinds my Gears more than a "Faker"
And one of the biggest fakers we had around here made a big point of going after other fakers. :o
Quote from: PHall on March 01, 2014, 01:54:43 AMAnd one of the biggest fakers we had around here made a big point of going after other fakers. :o
Takes one to know one.. so why turn down a chance to attempt to deflect the heat.
Quote from: a2capt on March 01, 2014, 02:49:22 AM
Quote from: PHall on March 01, 2014, 01:54:43 AMAnd one of the biggest fakers we had around here made a big point of going after other fakers. :o
Takes one to know one.. so why turn down a chance to attempt to deflect the heat.
It didn't work, as a matter of fact it drew attention to
him.
(http://www.colganmarketing.com/img/clock1.gif)
Tick, tock. Tick, tock. Tick, tock.
Quote from: SarDragon on March 01, 2014, 03:09:49 AM
(http://www.colganmarketing.com/img/clock1.gif)
Tick, tock. Tick, tock. Tick, tock.
Why? The thread is still on-topic.
Anybody knew where I can get my Medal of Honor and Navy Cross mounted in a shadow box?
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 01, 2014, 05:27:11 AM
Anybody knew where I can get my Medal of Honor and Navy Cross mounted in a shadow box?
Probably the same eBay seller you got them from...
Darnit!
Rob, try the base frame shop! ;)
Son Proudly Follows In Father's, Grandfather's Footsteps In Faking Military Service (http://www.duffelblog.com/2012/06/son-proudly-follows-in-fathers-grandfathers-footsteps-in-faking-military-service/)
Quote
CLEVELAND, OH – John Jakeman always knew he wanted to be a fake veteran, ever since he grew up following his father Sullivan "Sully" Jakeman around to various veterans' reunions.
"As a boy I loved to play with the Purple Hearts and Distinguished Service Cross Dad pretends he was awarded in Vietnam," said Jakeman. "Those are powerful experiences to a young man."
That headline almost makes me think that the whole family is a line of fakers.
Quote from: a2capt on March 04, 2014, 06:21:22 AM
That headline almost makes me think that the whole family is a line of fakers.
I was pretty sure that was the Duffelblog.
I was not disappointed.
Quote from: raivo on February 20, 2014, 01:50:23 AM
Quote from: JK657 on February 19, 2014, 11:02:23 PMSome of the pics show him in a CAP uniform but in the comments some CAP members say there is no record of him being a member. Thoughts?
It is beyond my comprehension why someone would fake having CAP rank...
It's really sad that a person has so little self-respect for their life that they have to fabricate a fantasy life.
Following this post, this topic got severely out of hand and all posts that followed have been removed and offenders warned/suspended/banned from CAP Talk. The topic has now been locked for any further comments.
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