NHQ looking for the next National Command Chief of CAP

Started by Falling Hare, February 09, 2018, 06:55:17 PM

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abdsp51

Quote from: capmaj on February 19, 2018, 09:48:17 PM
Drifting mildly back on to the topic..... a question. If a CAP Lt Col, Level V, who is an honorably discharged E-5 veteran, wanted to convert to NCO status, what would be his or her NCO grade in CAP? Would they remain at E-5 upon entry or would a higher NCO grade be granted?

There's a conversion matrix that would determine that based upon the Officer grade and PD accomplished. 

kwe1009

Quote from: abdsp51 on February 19, 2018, 10:01:23 PM


There's a conversion matrix that would determine that based upon the Officer grade and PD accomplished.

Where is this matrix?  There is nothing in 35-5 about officer to NCO transition that I could find.

darkmatter

Quote from: capmaj on February 19, 2018, 09:48:17 PM
Drifting mildly back on to the topic..... a question. If a CAP Lt Col, Level V, who is an honorably discharged E-5 veteran, wanted to convert to NCO status, what would be his or her NCO grade in CAP? Would they remain at E-5 upon entry or would a higher NCO grade be granted?

E-5 is what you would start out as but then you could move up E-6 through 9 with in cap

abdsp51

Quote from: darkmatter on February 19, 2018, 10:21:46 PM
Quote from: capmaj on February 19, 2018, 09:48:17 PM
Drifting mildly back on to the topic..... a question. If a CAP Lt Col, Level V, who is an honorably discharged E-5 veteran, wanted to convert to NCO status, what would be his or her NCO grade in CAP? Would they remain at E-5 upon entry or would a higher NCO grade be granted?

E-5 is what you would start out as but then you could move up E-6 through 9 with in cap

Wrong.

abdsp51

#44
See attached signed by CAP/CC and CAP/CCE.  So following this based upon my current CAP grade,  PD level, time in CAP and military grade if I were inclined to transition to NCO grade it would be MSgt.

The good LtCol who asked the question would transition to SMSgt. 

Ozzy

Quote from: abdsp51 on February 19, 2018, 10:40:20 PM
Quote from: darkmatter on February 19, 2018, 10:21:46 PM
Quote from: capmaj on February 19, 2018, 09:48:17 PM
Drifting mildly back on to the topic..... a question. If a CAP Lt Col, Level V, who is an honorably discharged E-5 veteran, wanted to convert to NCO status, what would be his or her NCO grade in CAP? Would they remain at E-5 upon entry or would a higher NCO grade be granted?

E-5 is what you would start out as but then you could move up E-6 through 9 with in cap

Wrong.

Yes and no.... yes they would normally stay as an SSgt when they switch to the enlisted ranks however there is, until the 28th a "recruiting" drive for CAP Officers who were RM NCOs to go over to the enlisted side. So the Lt Col who was an E-5 could possibly be granted SMSgt or MSgt.
Ozyilmaz, MSgt, CAP
C/Lt. Colonel (Ret.)
NYWG Encampment 07, 08, 09, 10, 17
CTWG Encampment 09, 11, 16
NER Cadet Leadership School 10
GAWG Encampment 18, 19
FLWG Winter Encampment 19

OldGuy

Quote from: Ozzy on February 19, 2018, 10:51:46 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on February 19, 2018, 10:40:20 PM
Quote from: darkmatter on February 19, 2018, 10:21:46 PM
Quote from: capmaj on February 19, 2018, 09:48:17 PM
Drifting mildly back on to the topic..... a question. If a CAP Lt Col, Level V, who is an honorably discharged E-5 veteran, wanted to convert to NCO status, what would be his or her NCO grade in CAP? Would they remain at E-5 upon entry or would a higher NCO grade be granted?

E-5 is what you would start out as but then you could move up E-6 through 9 with in cap

Wrong.

Yes and no.... yes they would normally stay as an SSgt when they switch to the enlisted ranks however there is, until the 28th a "recruiting" drive for CAP Officers who were RM NCOs to go over to the enlisted side. So the Lt Col who was an E-5 could possibly be granted SMSgt or MSgt.
What is the long term intent and strategy for the CAP NCO program?

abdsp51

Quote from: Ozzy on February 19, 2018, 10:51:46 PM
Quote from: abdsp51 on February 19, 2018, 10:40:20 PM
Quote from: darkmatter on February 19, 2018, 10:21:46 PM
Quote from: capmaj on February 19, 2018, 09:48:17 PM
Drifting mildly back on to the topic..... a question. If a CAP Lt Col, Level V, who is an honorably discharged E-5 veteran, wanted to convert to NCO status, what would be his or her NCO grade in CAP? Would they remain at E-5 upon entry or would a higher NCO grade be granted?

E-5 is what you would start out as but then you could move up E-6 through 9 with in cap

Wrong.

Yes and no.... yes they would normally stay as an SSgt when they switch to the enlisted ranks however there is, until the 28th a "recruiting" drive for CAP Officers who were RM NCOs to go over to the enlisted side. So the Lt Col who was an E-5 could possibly be granted SMSgt or MSgt.

Disagree.  NHQ would be off their rocker to screw over long term committed members to make them start at the bottom again especially if they are transitioning over from FGO.  Otherwise there would be no incentive for them to switch.  And one of the key items now of the NCO program grants them the opportunity to promote in CAP even if they don't promote in the military or left at a particular grade.

grunt82abn

Maybe we should do away with all senior member rank! No Officers, no NCO's, just senior members serving for the betterment of the organization, system to better serve its goals. Senior members would just be that, unless you were a CC, then that would be the only rank that you would hold. Give SM rates of duty position titles like Emergency Services officer, Logistics officer for those that head up those areas and keep the technician, senior,  and master to show your area of skill and knowledge (for lack of a better word). This would allow us to focus on the mission at hand versus how much rank we have or the arguments of why this group is this way or why that groups gets this and we don't. It would also keep those out there who like to threaten, bully and badger other senior members because they think their rank actually entitles them to belittle those who are supposedly beneath them. Just a thought!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present

OldGuy

Quote from: grunt82abn on February 19, 2018, 11:16:50 PM
Maybe we should do away with all senior member rank! No Officers, no NCO's, just senior members serving for the betterment of the organization, system to better serve its goals. Senior members would just be that, unless you were a CC, then that would be the only rank that you would hold. Give SM rates of duty position titles like Emergency Services officer, Logistics officer for those that head up those areas and keep the technician, senior,  and master to show your area of skill and knowledge (for lack of a better word). This would allow us to focus on the mission at hand versus how much rank we have or the arguments of why this group is this way or why that groups gets this and we don't. It would also keep those out there who like to threaten, bully and badger other senior members because they think their rank actually entitles them to belittle those who are supposedly beneath them. Just a thought!


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We have a nearly 80 year history as a proud part of the Air Force family. The ranks and uniforms help us honor that past and realize the reality of today's USAF assigned missions.  I could not disagree more with your idea. OTOH if you do not want to use your rank, you can wear corporate uniforms and simply "do the job" (and I have no doubt you do!) But getting rid of SM ranks would be a mistake in my opinion. YMMV.

FW

Quote from: Cicero on February 19, 2018, 10:57:13 PM
What is the long term intent and strategy for the CAP NCO program?

The long term intent and strategy of the CAP NCO program is to be one of the three discussion missions of CAPTalk... The others being cadet programs and uniforms. YMMV ;D

OldGuy

Quote from: FW on February 19, 2018, 11:31:50 PM
Quote from: Cicero on February 19, 2018, 10:57:13 PM
What is the long term intent and strategy for the CAP NCO program?

The long term intent and strategy of the CAP NCO program is to be one of the three discussion missions of CAPTalk... The others being cadet programs and uniforms. YMMV ;D
:)

But never politics!

grunt82abn

Quote from: Cicero on February 19, 2018, 11:25:21 PM
Quote from: grunt82abn on February 19, 2018, 11:16:50 PM
Maybe we should do away with all senior member rank! No Officers, no NCO's, just senior members serving for the betterment of the organization, system to better serve its goals. Senior members would just be that, unless you were a CC, then that would be the only rank that you would hold. Give SM rates of duty position titles like Emergency Services officer, Logistics officer for those that head up those areas and keep the technician, senior,  and master to show your area of skill and knowledge (for lack of a better word). This would allow us to focus on the mission at hand versus how much rank we have or the arguments of why this group is this way or why that groups gets this and we don't. It would also keep those out there who like to threaten, bully and badger other senior members because they think their rank actually entitles them to belittle those who are supposedly beneath them. Just a thought!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We have a nearly 80 year history as a proud part of the Air Force family. The ranks and uniforms help us honor that past and realize the reality of today's USAF assigned missions.  I could not disagree more with your idea. OTOH if you do not want to use your rank, you can wear corporate uniforms and simply "do the job" (and I have no doubt you do!) But getting rid of SM ranks would be a mistake in my opinion. YMMV.

I get the history, don't understand how it helps us realize the reality of today's mission. Commanders intent and the mission statement make that clear, what we wear doesn't. I work for the US Navy as a civilian, don't wear the Navy uniform, but have a clear understanding of the reality of the assigned DoD mission. Again it was me thinking out load.


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Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present

OldGuy

Quote from: grunt82abn on February 19, 2018, 11:48:30 PM
Quote from: Cicero on February 19, 2018, 11:25:21 PM
Quote from: grunt82abn on February 19, 2018, 11:16:50 PM
Maybe we should do away with all senior member rank! No Officers, no NCO's, just senior members serving for the betterment of the organization, system to better serve its goals. Senior members would just be that, unless you were a CC, then that would be the only rank that you would hold. Give SM rates of duty position titles like Emergency Services officer, Logistics officer for those that head up those areas and keep the technician, senior,  and master to show your area of skill and knowledge (for lack of a better word). This would allow us to focus on the mission at hand versus how much rank we have or the arguments of why this group is this way or why that groups gets this and we don't. It would also keep those out there who like to threaten, bully and badger other senior members because they think their rank actually entitles them to belittle those who are supposedly beneath them. Just a thought!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We have a nearly 80 year history as a proud part of the Air Force family. The ranks and uniforms help us honor that past and realize the reality of today's USAF assigned missions.  I could not disagree more with your idea. OTOH if you do not want to use your rank, you can wear corporate uniforms and simply "do the job" (and I have no doubt you do!) But getting rid of SM ranks would be a mistake in my opinion. YMMV.

I get the history, don't understand how it helps us realize the reality of today's mission. Commanders intent and the mission statement make that clear, what we wear doesn't. I work for the US Navy as a civilian, don't wear the Navy uniform, but have a clear understanding of the reality of the assigned DoD mission. Again it was me thinking out load.


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One of our missions is the Cadet Program. Uniforms are a tool. And we have choices. If you want, you may wear a corporate style uniform and eschew the military look.

J2H

SSgt Jeffrey Hughes, Squadron NCO
Glenn L. Martin Composite Squadron MD-031
#217169

ColonelJack

Quote from: Cicero on February 20, 2018, 01:01:00 AM
Quote from: grunt82abn on February 19, 2018, 11:48:30 PM
Quote from: Cicero on February 19, 2018, 11:25:21 PM
Quote from: grunt82abn on February 19, 2018, 11:16:50 PM
Maybe we should do away with all senior member rank! No Officers, no NCO's, just senior members serving for the betterment of the organization, system to better serve its goals. Senior members would just be that, unless you were a CC, then that would be the only rank that you would hold. Give SM rates of duty position titles like Emergency Services officer, Logistics officer for those that head up those areas and keep the technician, senior,  and master to show your area of skill and knowledge (for lack of a better word). This would allow us to focus on the mission at hand versus how much rank we have or the arguments of why this group is this way or why that groups gets this and we don't. It would also keep those out there who like to threaten, bully and badger other senior members because they think their rank actually entitles them to belittle those who are supposedly beneath them. Just a thought!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We have a nearly 80 year history as a proud part of the Air Force family. The ranks and uniforms help us honor that past and realize the reality of today's USAF assigned missions.  I could not disagree more with your idea. OTOH if you do not want to use your rank, you can wear corporate uniforms and simply "do the job" (and I have no doubt you do!) But getting rid of SM ranks would be a mistake in my opinion. YMMV.

I get the history, don't understand how it helps us realize the reality of today's mission. Commanders intent and the mission statement make that clear, what we wear doesn't. I work for the US Navy as a civilian, don't wear the Navy uniform, but have a clear understanding of the reality of the assigned DoD mission. Again it was me thinking out load.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
One of our missions is the Cadet Program. Uniforms are a tool. And we have choices. If you want, you may wear a corporate style uniform and eschew the military look.

To be honest, I've often wondered why someone who does not like uniforms, rank, military traditions, etc., would join an organization that is set up along those lines.  But that's just me.

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia

grunt82abn

Quote from: ColonelJack on February 20, 2018, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: Cicero on February 20, 2018, 01:01:00 AM
Quote from: grunt82abn on February 19, 2018, 11:48:30 PM
Quote from: Cicero on February 19, 2018, 11:25:21 PM
Quote from: grunt82abn on February 19, 2018, 11:16:50 PM
Maybe we should do away with all senior member rank! No Officers, no NCO's, just senior members serving for the betterment of the organization, system to better serve its goals. Senior members would just be that, unless you were a CC, then that would be the only rank that you would hold. Give SM rates of duty position titles like Emergency Services officer, Logistics officer for those that head up those areas and keep the technician, senior,  and master to show your area of skill and knowledge (for lack of a better word). This would allow us to focus on the mission at hand versus how much rank we have or the arguments of why this group is this way or why that groups gets this and we don't. It would also keep those out there who like to threaten, bully and badger other senior members because they think their rank actually entitles them to belittle those who are supposedly beneath them. Just a thought!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
We have a nearly 80 year history as a proud part of the Air Force family. The ranks and uniforms help us honor that past and realize the reality of today's USAF assigned missions.  I could not disagree more with your idea. OTOH if you do not want to use your rank, you can wear corporate uniforms and simply "do the job" (and I have no doubt you do!) But getting rid of SM ranks would be a mistake in my opinion. YMMV.

I get the history, don't understand how it helps us realize the reality of today's mission. Commanders intent and the mission statement make that clear, what we wear doesn't. I work for the US Navy as a civilian, don't wear the Navy uniform, but have a clear understanding of the reality of the assigned DoD mission. Again it was me thinking out load.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
One of our missions is the Cadet Program. Uniforms are a tool. And we have choices. If you want, you may wear a corporate style uniform and eschew the military look.

To be honest, I've often wondered why someone who does not like uniforms, rank, military traditions, etc., would join an organization that is set up along those lines.  But that's just me.

Jack
Never said I didn't like any of those you mentioned above but then again my first priority is the mission; It's not the wearing of trinkets, bells and whistles. I truly believe in the CAP mission, and get it accomplished regardless of what I  chose to wear.

My tools aren't the uniform, it's the Military Bearing, the command presence, tactical mindset, and the professionalism I was taught by men and women far better than me when I was enlisted. I try and perform in CAP by the principles I was taught and conduct my actions by following the NCO creed, not the 39-1 telling me what I have the option to wear.

I offered up a thought, an opinion, not a statement of fact of why I joined CAP. My point is that the uniform, rank, and ribbons don't make someone more proficient of a SM, and sure in heck doesn't give a person the ability to be an effective leader, those traits are instilled. They don't magically appear because of what you are wearing. Thanks for your opinion!

Sean



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Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present

FW

Quote from: Cicero on February 19, 2018, 11:33:39 PM
Quote from: FW on February 19, 2018, 11:31:50 PM
Quote from: Cicero on February 19, 2018, 10:57:13 PM
What is the long term intent and strategy for the CAP NCO program?

The long term intent and strategy of the CAP NCO program is to be one of the three discussion missions of CAPTalk... The others being cadet programs and uniforms. YMMV ;D
:)

But never politics!
I have misspoke; the long term intent and strategy of the CAP NCO program is to have another reason to switch the discussion to uniform threads... >:D

ColonelJack

Quote
Never said I didn't like any of those you mentioned above but then again my first priority is the mission; It's not the wearing of trinkets, bells and whistles. I truly believe in the CAP mission, and get it accomplished regardless of what I  chose to wear.

My tools aren't the uniform, it's the Military Bearing, the command presence, tactical mindset, and the professionalism I was taught by men and women far better than me when I was enlisted. I try and perform in CAP by the principles I was taught and conduct my actions by following the NCO creed, not the 39-1 telling me what I have the option to wear.

I offered up a thought, an opinion, not a statement of fact of why I joined CAP. My point is that the uniform, rank, and ribbons don't make someone more proficient of a SM, and sure in heck doesn't give a person the ability to be an effective leader, those traits are instilled. They don't magically appear because of what you are wearing. Thanks for your opinion!

Well, you're welcome, of course.  I wasn't specifically referring to you, though your opinion of giving up rank, etc., did make me wonder.

And I thank you for that opinion.  It's refreshing.

I was referring to some of our other compadres, though, who've all but called for doing away with the "trinkets, bells and whistles."  Not all of CAP's members are a part of the organization for altruistic reasons.  Back in the day, when I taught Personnel classes at SLS and CLC events, I always reminded my students that, in CAP, the Personnel officer is the closest thing we have to a paymaster.  Beyond the good feeling one gets for doing the job and doing it right, rank and awards (or trinkets, bells, and whistles, if you will) are the only compensation we receive.  (Of course, you already know that.)

While I don't include you specifically in my original question, I do still wonder why some people would join a military-styled organization and then complain about the military aspects of it.  That, I may never understand.

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia

Fubar

Quote from: ColonelJack on February 20, 2018, 11:06:36 PMWhile I don't include you specifically in my original question, I do still wonder why some people would join a military-styled organization and then complain about the military aspects of it.  That, I may never understand.

Maybe I'm wearing rose colored glasses, but I think the complaints only come in when the "military aspects" waste a volunteer's time, or even worse impact mission performance. Really the only "military aspects" we run into are uniforms and a mostly irrelevant grade structure (to bring this back around to the alleged need for a command chief), which can certainly irritate those who find other aspects of CAP more interesting.

What's of course important to remember is in the Venn diagram of people who were attracted by wearing military uniforms (without having to be in the military) and people who couldn't care less about uniforms, there's still a large overlap between the two groups of other aspects that were also contributing factors on joining CAP. The two groups have more in common than not, but still get hung up on the differences.

People see what they want to see when it comes to recruiting. The folks that dig wearing military uniforms see a wonderful opportunity, people who don't dig military uniforms see people wearing polo shirts. Really it's win-win, yet the argument rages on.