CAP Talk

General Discussion => Uniforms & Awards => Topic started by: FO Chris Kendall on March 27, 2007, 01:30:57 AM

Title: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: FO Chris Kendall on March 27, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
Alright General Question here, Im a new Cadet in C.A.P.. I just received Airman and Just acquired my dress blues in the mail. I remember hearing a while back that Cadets are allowed to wear the dress blues, Class B's, to school on the days of their respective C.A.P. meetings. Although Im not quite sure if I heard this correctly. Any and all help is appreciated.


C/Amn Christopher John Kendall
Schirra Squadron
Group 221, NJ-090, NER
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Jolt on March 27, 2007, 01:42:35 AM
Welcome to CAP! :)

To answer your question, no, you're not allowed to wear your blues uniform to school on the day of the meeting.  CAP has been using a general "one hour before, one hour after" uniform policy.  The idea is that you wear the uniform an hour before the meeting or activity and one hour after so that you're only wearing the uniform when it's required.

Also, I'd like to add that we don't refer to uniforms as "class a's, b's or c's" or anything like that.  What you're referring to is probably a short sleeve blues uniform.  And "class a's" are usually the service dress uniform.  CAP doesn't have a standardized class system, so, while it may work for your squadron, members of other squadrons won't know which uniform you're referring to.

Congratulations on your promotion to C/Amn.  Keep it up!
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Ford73Diesel on March 27, 2007, 01:43:17 AM
Quote from: Cadet Airman Chris Kendall on March 27, 2007, 01:30:57 AM
Alright General Question here, Im a new Cadet in C.A.P.. I just received Airman and Just acquired my dress blues in the mail. I remember hearing a while back that Cadets are allowed to wear the dress blues, Class B's, to school on the days of their respect C.A.P. meetings. Although Im not quite sure if I heard this correctly. Any and all help is appreciated.


C/Amn Christopher John Kendall
Schirra Squadron
Group 221, NJ-090, NER

No, you are not allowed to wear any CAP uniform  to any non- CAP activity.
Check out table 1-1 of CAPM 39-1.


Also, whats  this "Class B's" you speak of? Those are army terms. Short sleeve blues* would be the uniform you received in the mail. Check out CAPM 39-1 for more details

Congrats on you promotion, and welcome to CAP!


edit to add: Jolt, you beat me to the punch....

*edit to add again: Short Sleeve Service Uniform is the correct term instead of short sleeve blues
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: MIKE on March 27, 2007, 01:45:10 AM
What are blues?  ;D
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: FO Chris Kendall on March 27, 2007, 01:46:11 AM
Alright, Yeah its The Short Sleeved Dress Uniform. I assumed those were called Class B's in CAP also, Apparently I was wrong. But alright, Thank you for the information. And I just call them the Dress Blues, I thought CAP referred to them as that also, Apparently I was wrong again. Gotta get my jargon right,

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Pylon on March 27, 2007, 01:51:26 AM
Quote from: Cadet Airman Chris Kendall on March 27, 2007, 01:46:11 AM
Alright, Yeah its The Short Sleeved Dress Uniform. I assumed those were called Class B's in CAP also, Apparently I was wrong. But alright, Thank you for the information. And I just call them the Dress Blues, I thought CAP referred to them as that also, Apparently I was wrong again. Gotta get my jargon right,

Thanks again.

Welcome to the organization and welcome to CAPTalk.  Don't sweat the jargon stuff - after 10 years in CAP, I still hear people use new and unfamiliar terms and learn something new.  We're all learning, all the time.   :)
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: MIKE on March 27, 2007, 01:53:58 AM
Quote from: Cadet Airman Chris Kendall on March 27, 2007, 01:46:11 AM
Alright, Yeah its The Short Sleeved Dress Uniform. I assumed those were called Class B's in CAP also, Apparently I was wrong. But alright, Thank you for the information. And I just call them the Dress Blues, I thought CAP referred to them as that also, Apparently I was wrong again. Gotta get my jargon right,

Just messing with ya... We all know what you are talking about.  As far as the proper terms:

Quote from: CAPM 39-12-1. a. Service uniforms include the service dress uniform, long-sleeve light blue blouse/shirt, and shortsleeve light blue blouse/shirt.

Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: SarDragon on March 27, 2007, 02:41:25 AM
Gotta give him a little break, he's from the NY suburb part of NJ.  ;)
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: DNall on March 27, 2007, 02:53:07 AM
Just to clarify so you know the right terms from the begining... it's not "dress blues" either. The blues uniform is called service dress. It's referred to as "full service dress" meaning with the jacket, or long or short sleeve. I won't even get into cadets can't be assigned Sq staff positions, and that Amn are in the learning phase where they should never be assigned any additional duty.

Welcome though, and please keep working hard to move thru the program.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Psicorp on March 27, 2007, 03:31:56 AM
Growing up in a military household, use of that jargon became second nature.  Class A was full Service Dress, Class B was long sleeve blues shirt with tie, Class C was short sleeve blues shirt no tie,  and Class 6 was the base liquor store.   ;D

The only time you may wear your CAP uniform to school is if you are conducting some CAP activity or if your school has a JROTC program and you've been invited to participate in an activity, and both of those depend on your Squadron Commander's approval.   Otherwise, leave the uniform at home.

Congrats on the Curry and good luck!

Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: ddelaney103 on March 27, 2007, 03:44:09 AM
Wow, several answers on the name of the uniform - and all of them are wrong.

In the AF, and by extension CAP, though they are far sloppier with their terminology, the blue uniform is known as the Service Uniform.  It has several variants:

If you are wearing the jacket, it is known as the Service Dress Uniform.

The uniform w/o the jacket is the Short Sleeve Service Uniform or Long Sleeve Service Uniform.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: flyerthom on March 27, 2007, 09:15:25 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on March 27, 2007, 02:41:25 AM
Gotta give hima a little break, he's from the NY suburb part of NJ.  ;)

The Pocono's - New Yorks 6th bough...
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: FO Chris Kendall on March 28, 2007, 02:20:33 AM
Quote from: flyerthom on March 27, 2007, 09:15:25 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on March 27, 2007, 02:41:25 AM
Gotta give hima a little break, he's from the NY suburb part of NJ.  ;)

The Pocono's - New Yorks 6th bough...

*Borough

;)
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Eclipse on March 28, 2007, 04:51:37 AM
FYI - in situations where it might be appropriate to wear the uniform outside a CAP activity, it requires your unit CC's approval to do so.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: brasda91 on March 29, 2007, 03:04:41 PM
Quote from: Psicorp on March 27, 2007, 03:31:56 AM
Class A was full Service Dress, Class B was long sleeve blues shirt with tie, Class C was short sleeve blues shirt no tie.   ;D


Exactly.  This goes back years ago.  I was a cadet '87-'89 and even when I joined as a Senior member in '93, that is the terminology that was used then.  Keep in mind, over the years the terminology may have changed or the members have begun using the manuals "correct" name.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: AlphaSigOU on March 29, 2007, 06:03:45 PM
Quote from: flyerthom on March 27, 2007, 09:15:25 PM
Quote from: SarDragon on March 27, 2007, 02:41:25 AM
Gotta give hima a little break, he's from the NY suburb part of NJ.  ;)

The Pocono's - New Yorks 6th bough...

No, no, no... South Florida in the winter time is New Yawk's 6th borough!  ;D
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Major Lord on March 29, 2007, 06:12:55 PM
When I was the Deputy Commander for Cadets, I gave blanket permission to any Cadet to wear his uniform to schoool, as long as he/she carried recrutiment literature on their person and the school did not forbid it.

Capt. Lord
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Psicorp on March 29, 2007, 06:20:04 PM
Quote from: CaptLord on March 29, 2007, 06:12:55 PM
When I was the Deputy Commander for Cadets, I gave blanket permission to any Cadet to wear his uniform to schoool, as long as he/she carried recrutiment literature on their person and the school did not forbid it.

Capt. Lord

And they managed to keep the uniform in good enough condition to pass inspection at meetings?   That's impressive.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Monty on March 29, 2007, 07:18:35 PM
Quote from: Psicorp on March 29, 2007, 06:20:04 PM
Quote from: CaptLord on March 29, 2007, 06:12:55 PM
When I was the Deputy Commander for Cadets, I gave blanket permission to any Cadet to wear his uniform to schoool, as long as he/she carried recrutiment literature on their person and the school did not forbid it.

Capt. Lord

And they managed to keep the uniform in good enough condition to pass inspection at meetings?   That's impressive.

It's not that hard, friend....some of us had to work in the "real" blue uniform on a daily basis, walking around, passing out recruiting literature.....and still had to pass uniform inspections when our Flight Chiefs and Superintendents came for spot visits after the sun went down!  :)
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Psicorp on March 29, 2007, 07:26:38 PM
Quote from: msmjr2003 on March 29, 2007, 07:18:35 PM
Quote from: Psicorp on March 29, 2007, 06:20:04 PM
Quote from: CaptLord on March 29, 2007, 06:12:55 PM
When I was the Deputy Commander for Cadets, I gave blanket permission to any Cadet to wear his uniform to schoool, as long as he/she carried recrutiment literature on their person and the school did not forbid it.

Capt. Lord

And they managed to keep the uniform in good enough condition to pass inspection at meetings?   That's impressive.

It's not that hard, friend....some of us had to work in the "real" blue uniform on a daily basis, walking around, passing out recruiting literature.....and still had to pass uniform inspections when our Flight Chiefs and Superintendents came for spot visits after the sun went down!  :)

Copy sir, but Middle and Jr. High Schools are a very different environment, the average maturity level (of the other students) just isn't there yet.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: RogueLeader on March 29, 2007, 07:34:37 PM
Quote from: Psicorp on March 29, 2007, 07:26:38 PM

Copy sir, but Middle and Jr. High Schools are a very different environment, the average maturity level (of the other students) just isn't there yet.
I'd have to say for the most part, you are correct, but there are some that do have an above average maturity level.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: SarDragon on March 30, 2007, 07:34:20 AM
Quote from: brasda91 on March 29, 2007, 03:04:41 PM
Quote from: Psicorp on March 27, 2007, 03:31:56 AM
Class A was full Service Dress, Class B was long sleeve blues shirt with tie, Class C was short sleeve blues shirt no tie.   ;D


Exactly.  This goes back years ago.  I was a cadet '87-'89 and even when I joined as a Senior member in '93, that is the terminology that was used then.  Keep in mind, over the years the terminology may have changed or the members have begun using the manuals "correct" name.

I have a Uni Manual from 1968, and that terminology wasn't used back then, nor does it show up in any subsequent Uni Manual I have on hand. Class A's, etc, has been wrong for at least 38 years, and some folks just won't let it go.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: SAR-EMT1 on March 30, 2007, 08:12:24 AM
Quote from: Jolt on March 27, 2007, 01:42:35 AM
Welcome to CAP! :)

To answer your question, no, you're not allowed to wear your blues uniform to school on the day of the meeting.  CAP has been using a general "one hour before, one hour after" uniform policy.  The idea is that you wear the uniform an hour before the meeting or activity and one hour after so that you're only wearing the uniform when it's required.

Also, I'd like to add that we don't refer to uniforms as "class a's, b's or c's" or anything like that.  What you're referring to is probably a short sleeve blues uniform.  And "class a's" are usually the service dress uniform.  CAP doesn't have a standardized class system, so, while it may work for your squadron, members of other squadrons won't know which uniform you're referring to.

Congratulations on your promotion to C/Amn.  Keep it up!


- Not attacking you, just stating something:
I am familiar with the 1 hour rule for BDUs but not for Blues... in fact several  squadrons in my Wing encourage Blues-at School every once in a while as a recruiting tool. - to keep jrotc on their toes or somesuch.

As for the uniform Ive never heard them refered to as anything
If NOT A B or C's - in common usage.  Heck I get emails and such from the Wing Listserv with functions denoting A's as being req'd.
But then I are a 1Lt. according to some folks and not a 1st Lt so.... things aren't necessarily what they should be.

To agree with Jolt 100% : CAP is a far cry from standard when it comes to uniforms.
And of course, congrats on the promotion. I hope that you find your many years as a minion cadet,  enjoyable
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: FO Chris Kendall on March 30, 2007, 01:09:08 PM
Hahaha, My Many years will only be around 3. I literally joined as a C.A.P. cadet a Day before my 18th birthday so That I could get the full aura of the Civil Air Patrol and see what the cadets go through. My wing Commander wishes me to transfer onto the senior side after basic  Encampment but I prefer to stay a cadet till im 21 and forced to change over.


And as far as my question goes, I talked with my Cadet Commander and he said that him and the Squadron Commander had talked about it before and they encourage the cadets to wear their "Service Dress" on Thursdays (Our Squadron Meeting Night) to help with Recruiting and the forth. We have to carry around Senior Member (Some Teachers and Older students like my Age) and cadet Member pamphlets (For the others).


QuoteCopy sir, but Middle and Jr. High Schools are a very different environment, the average maturity level (of the other students) just isn't there yet.
Yeah, Middle and Jr High Schools arent that Mature in my area also, Good thing Im a Senior In High School xD, and My school has some Interest in the Military Like activities, Since there is not a JROTC Unit anywhere even relatively close to my School, Except for one at PCT, Which is a Bad unit from what I hear.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: ColonelJack on March 30, 2007, 03:04:31 PM
Good on you, Mister Kendall!!  Keep up the good work and recruit.

Here, I've been trying for two years to get a unit started in my middle school built on the old School Squadron (or whatever it was called) program.  The kids would line up to join ... but the administration of the school and the system say that if the state won't pay for the teaching position and the AF/CAP won't pay for it, we can't have it.  My schedule doesn't allow me the liberty to conduct meetings after school; it would have to be a daily class, sort of a middle-school JROTC along CAP lines.  My presentation to the principal and school board was great!  But they claim they don't have the money to pay me to teach CAP...just social studies.

Sigh.

Jack
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Becks on March 30, 2007, 03:07:45 PM
Quote from: Cadet Airman Chris Kendall on March 30, 2007, 01:09:08 PM
Since there is not a JROTC Unit anywhere even relatively close to my School, Except for one at PCT, Which is a Bad unit from what I hear.

Well now cadet, that just sounds like recruiting potential waiting to happen.  ;)
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Psicorp on March 30, 2007, 05:41:42 PM
Quote from: Cadet Airman Chris Kendall on March 30, 2007, 01:09:08 PM
Hahaha, My Many years will only be around 3. I literally joined as a C.A.P. cadet a Day before my 18th birthday so That I could get the full aura of the Civil Air Patrol and see what the cadets go through. My wing Commander wishes me to transfer onto the senior side after basic  Encampment but I prefer to stay a cadet till im 21 and forced to change over.

With all the "perks" and activities associated with being a Cadet...I'd stay in till I was 21 as well.    It may get a bit frustrating at times since there are some Officers who don't see a difference between a 14 year old Cadet and a 19 year old, and it may be tempting just to switch over to avoid some hassle, but stick it out and take advantage of as many opportunities as you can.    Good luck!
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: SAR-EMT1 on March 31, 2007, 10:28:37 AM
If you can get your basic encampment and get yourself to a flight encampment and get your wings/private. Id say you are sitting pretty.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Ford73Diesel on March 31, 2007, 02:28:26 PM
Quote from: Cadet Airman Chris Kendall on March 30, 2007, 01:09:08 PM
My wing Commander wishes me to transfer onto the senior side after basic  Encampment but I prefer to stay a cadet till im 21 and forced to change over.

Thats exactly what I would do. You only can be a cadet once, and a SM for the rest of your life...

I've seen a few cadets transition to flight officer grades, they are treated like cadets but don't get the full benefits of cadets like NCSA's etc IMHO

Resist the urge to join the darkside, although they have donuts... >:D ;)
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: arajca on March 31, 2007, 02:37:32 PM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on March 31, 2007, 10:28:37 AM
If you can get your basic encampment and get yourself to a flight encampment and get your wings/private. Id say you are sitting pretty.
You'd have to double check, but I think the flight activities are only for the under-18 y.o. cadets.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: MIKE on March 31, 2007, 02:48:48 PM
O-Flights cap out at 18 IIRC, not sure about other flight training though.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: afgeo4 on March 31, 2007, 03:37:43 PM
Quote from: CaptLord on March 29, 2007, 06:12:55 PM
When I was the Deputy Commander for Cadets, I gave blanket permission to any Cadet to wear his uniform to schoool, as long as he/she carried recrutiment literature on their person and the school did not forbid it.

Capt. Lord

I agree with this policy.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: FO Chris Kendall on March 31, 2007, 03:57:50 PM
I'm very interested in flying, So If anyone can drop me a link to where I can check out about the age limits of the other flying trainings it would be well appreciated.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: MIKE on March 31, 2007, 04:09:25 PM
CAPR 60-1 CAP FLIGHT MANAGEMENT (http://level2.cap.gov/documents/u_082503073227.pdf)

Quote from: CAPR 60-12-6. a. (2) CAP cadets under 18 years of age may participate in CAP flight activities in the following categories:
(a) Cadet orientation flights conducted in accordance with appropriate CAP regulations. CAP cadets 18 years of age or older may not fly on cadet orientation flights.
(b) Other flights when approved by the unit commander and the PIC is cadet orientation pilot qualified.

Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: FO Chris Kendall on March 31, 2007, 04:18:18 PM
I see, Hmmm Thats weird. It says that Cadets over 18 cant go on the O-Flight, but then the next requirement says that AFROTC Are allowed onto them.

Pardon me if Im wrong, But Isnt AFROTC technically 18 year olds? Since it doesnt refer to AFJROTC I don't believe that makes much sense :S

Weird CAP Regulations.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: arajca on March 31, 2007, 05:09:37 PM
AFROTC o-flights are separate program from CAP cadet o-flights.
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: mikeylikey1 on March 31, 2007, 07:36:57 PM
Quote from: arajca on March 31, 2007, 05:09:37 PM
AFROTC o-flights are separate program from CAP cadet o-flights.

There are some Cap units that don't fly their own cadets at all, but when the weather gets nice they are in the air flying ROTC around.  Makes me sick! 
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Ford73Diesel on April 01, 2007, 02:20:53 PM
I joined CAP when I was 13 and never been on a CAP o-flight. Now I'm 18, so I guess I never will............ :'(
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: FO Chris Kendall on April 01, 2007, 04:05:17 PM
Quote from: markh on April 01, 2007, 02:20:53 PM
I joined CAP when I was 13 and never been on a CAP o-flight. Now I'm 18, so I guess I never will............ :'(

You and I can wallow in missing our chance at O-Flights together :P
Title: Re: Class B Uniform Question
Post by: Major Carrales on April 01, 2007, 04:38:22 PM
There is a precarious nature in that some CAP units are isolated or have cumbersome access to aircraft to fly cadets.

I have had to drive cadets some near 300 miles to get them O-flights before.  

It, however, can be done. 

Is there not a type of flight that can position a CAP aircraft for O-Flights?  If so, it needs to be utilized in my, and other, areas.

As I see it it should be possible to gather the cadets of several units and make a day of it.

As for uniform "classes," I recall people using these terms when I first joined.  Most of them were Army prior service.  It is more or less a "short hand" they use.  Everyone seemed to know what was being said.

Still, "service dress" isn't all that difficult to say.  It's like when someone types "'bout" instead of "about."   What time or energy does it save to type it when it has the same number of characters?  By the same tolken, what time does it serve to say "Class B uniform" instead of "service dress."

Well, that is neither here nor there.