Commander's Commendation

[Stonewall]

Okay kids, time for another thread that will start with the above subject and veer off on a tangent about whether or not dog tags are authorized for wear in CAP.... 

When I was a cadet I didn't even know what a commander's commendation (CC) was.  It wasn't until I became a senior in a different wing that I saw someone with it on and asked "hey, what's that ribbon".

Since then, I've taken notice of people getting them left and right.  Not just the CC, but the Meritorious Service Award (MSA) and whatever is higher than that. 

I've seen cadet airmen earning the CC for participating in a drill team activity, handing out brochures at the national conference and for being on staff at a weekend activity.

As for seniors, I've seen seniors with fewer than 3 years in, get an MSA on top of their CC with 2 clasps.  One senior I knew got an MSA for being the "CAC Senior Advisor".

Me, I've got 3 CC's.  One for an "extraordinary FIND" during a mission, one for some IACE support role I played and one for getting Senior of the Year while service as DCC at a squadron.  I'm not saying those things are above and beyond the call of duty, but my first CC wasn't until I had like 6 years in CAP.

I put a 1st Lt in for an MSA for playing a M-A-J-O-R role in the ground operations side of the Middle East Region SAR College.  From scratch, this LT spent at least 100 hours drawing up plans, coordinating logistics, and managing staff.  Not to mention actually kicking butt at at the college itself.  What happened?  It got turned down by the MER CC at the time because he was only an LT.  YES, I GOT THAT AS THE REASON FROM THE MER/CC himself.

So what gives?  I was commandant at NGSAR (before it was NESA) for the Advanced Course, a national activity.  I got "Distinguished Graduate" at Region Staff College along with "best speaker".  I've planned major wing exercises to include the 25th anniversary Tactical Communications Exercise (where I nominated 2 assistants for CCs).  I've brought two different squadrons from near-termination to full-blown active composite squadron; both earning "squadron of the year".  And I'm sure there's more.

I'm not asking for a medal at all.  But when I compare some of my accomplishments to those who are wearing some of these medals, it makes me wonder if it's who you know and not what you do.  I am confident that most folks do not do things with the sole purpose of getting awards, but come on, something has to give.

[/rant]

It's funny.  We're like buzzards here on CAP Talk.  I noticed everyone hanging out waiting for the next post on the CAP Sword thread, then when this one came up, 8 people migrated all at once.  Are we that bored? 

[Hawk200]

I got a CC for an encampment. Had to pick up the slack caused by a couple of seniors that got sent home (yes, you read that right). Only one I have that I recall. Was out a couple of years, and haven't even really put together a rack with CAP ribbons yet. Then again, haven't worn blues yet either.

All in all, seems like someone up your chain is either lazy or ignorant. I know the Air Force turns some decs down, or downgrades due to lower rank (which I think is a crock), but it shouldn't be that way in CAP. We all get the same negative paycheck.

I also think that a CC with the silver star on it is a load of horse droppings as well. Why should any one CC be more important because the National Commander signs it?  Show some brass, give them a higher dec if the thing is making it to the top dog's desk. Putting a unique attachment on a lower dec is lacking in sincerity.

[JC004]

The system is silly.  I too see cadet airmen getting Commanders Commendations for drill team and stuff (strange, they already got a ribbon for that).  I have been trying to handle this absurdity of members who truly deserve an award being left out, mostly by reminding folks at SLS, CLC, etc. that any CAP member can recommend someone for an award, and they should. 

[LtCol White]

Then there is also the flip side where they are RARELY given out as well and you see many people who should have them and never do get them. It creates a serious morale prob in those who really work hard and see them given to folks for lesser achievements or see them always being given to the same people.

I'm not at all advocating giving them out like xmas cards but in our org, those awards are the only way to recognize the folks to really bust their butt and should be awarded rather than horded as if they were gold.

I'm sure many of us here know of cases on both sides of this.

[Stonewall]

~Snitp~I have been trying to handle this absurdity of members who truly deserve an award being left out, ~snip~

That's one thing that is tough, for me anyway.  I don't want to put someone in for an award that I know will be approved, just because everyone else got one for the same silly reason.  Never give an award out of pitty or because everyone else got one.

A few years ago I created a Ground Operations Challenge coin.  Some of you may have one or know what I'm talking about.  While I did sell some to people outside of my wing, I made them so I could award ground team folks for doing a great job where a Commanders Commendation wasn't quite warranted.  They also worked great for giving to people outside of CAP who supported us, like the local police department, K-9 SAR folks, the Park Ranger at the local park, etc.

The coin thing worked wonders for CAP members.  In fact, I think some people liked them more than the CC medal.

[ELTHunter]

Then there is also the flip side where they are RARELY given out as well and you see many people who should have them and never do get them. It creates a serious morale prob in those who really work hard and see them given to folks for lesser achievements or see them always being given to the same people.

I'm not at all advocating giving them out like xmas cards but in our org, those awards are the only way to recognize the folks to really bust their butt and should be awarded rather than horded as if they were gold.

I'm sure many of us here know of cases on both sides of this.

IMO, Commanders Commendations are pretty meaningless, as are most of the other "subjective" awards.  They should all probably be done away with.  Maybe keep the Medals Of Valor but make them be approved by a board or the CAP-USAF.

I have three CC's and as far as I am concerned, all I did was do my job to the best of my ability.  Did I put more time in than other staff members, yes, but that's because I needed to in order to get the job done.

I also have a Disaster Relief Ribbon with "V" device.  I got it for spending the day helping clean up after a tornado hit a neighboring county and it became a Presidentially declared disaster.  As far as I was concerned, I was just doing what good neighbors do.  The on scene commander happened to be the Group CC at the time and put us all in for it.

I used to wear my ribbons on my service uniform but decided it was too much BS to be taken seriously.

[Hawk200]

It creates a serious morale prob in those who really work hard and see them given to folks for lesser achievements or see them always being given to the same people.

I remember a cadet in a previous wing that had five CC's, with only about four years in CAP. Seems like the individual always buddied up to the person in charge and would ask for one. In reality, this person would always direct another lower ranking cadet to accomplish any task the director gave. This person always seemed to have some kind of malady whenever other seniors requested assistance.

[TankerT]

Disclaimer: I've been in CAP for 20 years, and have served on a Wing Awards Board for a little over 4 years.  So, I am somewhat opinionated...

Well.  Having an award denied because the person had a low rank is absurd.  That should actually bolster the award justification.

My experience is, the real problem is that most people just don't take the time to recommend other members for awards.

I'm not going to judge what people get them for without knowing what the facts are. To complain about a cadet Airman getting a CCA for something Drill Team related, doesn't mean it isn't warranted.  It depends if the actions of the cadet meet the criteria in the regs.  If they do, then by all means, they deserve the award.

Does "who you know" have anything to do with the award?  Absolutely.  But, not necessarily the way you might think. 

My experience (which will vary in different wings mind you) is that about 90% of the awards are written by the same small group of people.  Sometimes these people making the recommendations are people "in power" and sometimes they are not.  But, if "who you know" is one of the people that writes people up for awards, then you might have more than others.

So, if a handful of people write people up for awards (in my wing, I want to say we have about 10 people that write someone up every year... not meaning they write up the same people, but they take the time to recommend someone...

So, I'm certain that some people are recommended for brushing their teeth... while other people that save the universe get squat.

So, if you know someone deserving, write 'em up.  You may/may not feel that awards are meaningful, but normally, most people will appreciate being recognized for their service.

Feel free to send 'em my way, and I;ll be happy to give it a critique.

[jimmydeanno]

The last NCC I went to there was a C/SSgt with an ESA, MSA X 2 and 4 CCs - I am curious what a C/SSgt that doesn't even have a red service could have done to earn them...

I have also seen people earning a CC for the same thing multiple times - kinda sad actually.

Then there are the CCs that give them out at the end of their duty assignment just to say "thank you" to the staff - not that they went above and beyond, but simply held the position for a year...

frustrating...yes. 

[TankerT]

The last NCC I went to there was a C/SSgt with an ESA, MSA X 2 and 4 CCs - I am curious what a C/SSgt that doesn't even have a red service could have done to earn them...

I have also seen people earning a CC for the same thing multiple times - kinda sad actually.

Then there are the CCs that give them out at the end of their duty assignment just to say "thank you" to the staff - not that they went above and beyond, but simply held the position for a year...

frustrating...yes. 

Yes, those examples would be frustrating.

[MIKE]

I will have 10 years in in two days, and I still ain't got one... Yet some 12 year old C/Amn gets one for setting up chairs for some wing event.

Maybe I'll have better luck with the Aux.

[Stonewall]

I don't think it's at all too much for a a CAP commander to give a CCA to, let's say, a Captain who served at the squadron for 3 years in a position of responsibility, like Deputy Commander for Cadets; assuming they did a better than average job.  There are lots of reasons to award people for the work they do or a specific action.  There are also not-so-goo reasons to award someone for doing next to nothing.

I was shocked the first time I got a CCA.  I had no clue it was in the works and I'll be honst with you, I was very proud and pleased to recieve it.  I got it for "out of the box" thinking during an ELT mission in the DC area.  We could all hear the signal but no one, not even the aircraft could pinpoint it.  I went to a high-rise building, met with the security manager on duty, and asked if we could gain access to the roof to take a signal.  In no time, we knew where the signal wasn't coming from, which allowed us to concentrate on a much smaller area.  I don't think it was a big deal at all and I certainly didn't consider a CCA was in order.  But to my surprise, I got one.

[Stonewall]

Yet some 12 year old C/Amn gets one for setting up chairs for some wing event.

Those chairs can be a biznitch.  And for a 12 year old?  Come on, he should have gotten an MSA with "V" device.

[AlphaSigOU]

...Then there are the CCs that give them out at the end of their duty assignment just to say "thank you" to the staff - not that they went above and beyond, but simply held the position for a year...

frustrating...yes.

Not to crap on the awards machine that Texas Wing sometimes can be... every time a wing king finishes up his or her tour there's a veritable avalanche of awards and decorations. I oughta know... I got a 'Comm-Comm' this year just for doing my job as senior advisor to the Texas Wing CAC. I did a good job (still do, ain't been fired yet!), and Maj Sutton (my boss) put me in for it and it was approved. I was disappointed, however in how all the awards were literally cranked out at the last minute, with award periods that didn't quite jibe with the certificate dates, poorly written citations, etc. (Just the admin/personnel weenie in me talkin' story...)

Back in my days WIWAC, the Comm-Comm was just introduced; and it was rare to see it awarded. Ever rarer still was to see an MSA... and the holy grail was to get an MSA while a cadink. I know of only two people who earned an MSA while cadets, and that's because of their participation in SER's two-time-in a row win at NCC over 30 years ago.

[MIKE]

Yet some 12 year old C/Amn gets one for setting up chairs for some wing event.

Those chairs can be a biznitch.  And for a 12 year old?  Come on, he should have gotten an MSA with "V" device.

No, thats what I should get for directing and supervising said C/Amn... thus ensuring mission accomplishment.

[Eclipse]

Generally it is standard practice for an outgoing commander to write up key staffers for Comm-Comms.

As a point of information, any member can write up any other member for a decoration.

These are simply one commander's opinion that someone did something commendable, that's all.  The higher awards have specific criteria of scope, and require higher approval, usually at a Region or national level.

Again, as with grade, just because you believe some people have been whipped to them, doesn't in any way devalue the awards that others have received.

The awards mean something to only one person YOU, but to say they as BS is insulting to people who actually earned them - BTW they are on a service coat.  Nothing raises red flags to me more than a a Capt or Major wearing a service coat with no ribbons.

If you get saluted, return it.

If you receive an award or decoration, accept it humbly.

If you get promoted, change your business card and move on.

Why do you guys spend so much time worrying about stuff like this?

[ZigZag911]

Comm Comm is specifically intended for outstanding duty performance. This can be for anyone, at any level -- I've recommended  them for outgoing squadron CCs who had a markedly successful, multi-year command: perhaps initiating new programs, or for significant accomplishments, or for restoring a struggling unit to health.

This was in addition to their Command Service Ribbon, which was all the average CC got (but still, it is recognition).

Comm Comm should be for some significant contribution...3-5 years as finance officer or ops officer doesn't suffice -- but the same tenure with noteworthy accomplishments, surely does.

ESA is supposed to be for major wing or region level contributions....I'd be fascinated to learn what a C/SSgt had done to earn one.

[JC004]

...
ESA is supposed to be for major wing or region level contributions....I'd be fascinated to learn what a C/SSgt had done to earn one.

I used to get picked on by curious folk about my Lifesaving because I got it when I was a pretty low-ranking cadet.  Lots of people thought it was the Spaatz ribbon with a star, some had no idea, lots thought it was impossible for low ranking cadets to save lives.     The first time I wore it at a major thing was a wing conference.  A bird Colonel found people were harassing me about it, verified its validity with my wing king, and proceeded to come to my defense.  I got lots of apologies from lots of people.  It was such a major deal that I didn't wear it again for at least a year or two.

[ZigZag911]

...
ESA is supposed to be for major wing or region level contributions....I'd be fascinated to learn what a C/SSgt had done to earn one.

I used to get picked on by curious folk about my Lifesaving because I got it when I was a pretty low-ranking cadet.  Lots of people thought it was the Spaatz ribbon with a star, some had no idea, lots thought it was impossible for low ranking cadets to save lives.     The first time I wore it at a major thing was a wing conference.  A bird Colonel found people were harassing me about it, verified its validity with my wing king, and proceeded to come to my defense.  I got lots of apologies from lots of people.  It was such a major deal that I didn't wear it again for at least a year or two.

Lifesaving is much more believable regardless of rank....it's a matter of being present when the need arises.

I probably would not have been among those who questioned your right to the LS award -- though I am always interested in hearing the details if someone is willing to share them.

Exceptional Service is simply a very different kettle of fish! Not something ordinarily received by junior cadet NCOs!

[JC004]

Lifesaving is much more believable regardless of rank....it's a matter of being present when the need arises.

I probably would not have been among those who questioned your right to the LS award -- though I am always interested in hearing the details if someone is willing to share them.

Exceptional Service is simply a very different kettle of fish! Not something ordinarily received by junior cadet NCOs!

Eh, it was nothing exciting (that would be a medal of valor anyways, perhaps).  The encounters I had with Big Bad Colonels and other people who sought my destruction for wearing such a thing was far more entertaining.  Sometimes, I enjoyed screwing with their heads.  Mostly, it gave me a headache.

I don't care much about pretty awards.  I guess they come in use for the resume and stuff, but I never got many in CAP compared to some folks (although I did get AFA cadet of the year for the whole state once).  I will build this e-Learning site that I'm working on, it'll really take off, awesomeness will ensue, and I'll be awarded a Curry ribbon or something.    

"There is no limit to what a man can do or where he can go if he doesn't mind who gets the credit," right?