New CAP Awards Being Proposed

[JC004]

Or...

Maybe it was a very young Tony Pineda, trying to push the TPU even then?!

Who needs conspiracy theory sites when we have CAPTalk?   

[alamrcn]

Maybe it was a very young Tony Pineda, trying to push the TPU even then?!

Oh NO you di-ent!!

[Former_C/LTC]

After reading all these posts I think we have to look at the bigger picture here.  The foundation level problem is instead of trying to follow the Air Force guidance we keep inventing more badges to wear on our uniforms.  I don't care if we have hundreds of "occupational" badges to wear, just limit them to two, and two only.  We run around on Air Force bases looking like field marshalls wearing up to four differenct badges all over the place, plus all our aeronautical ratings as well, please, will someone tell the right people to STOP THE MADNESS...!!  Look at any Air Force occupational style badges and the majority all have a basic design of rounded wings with some specific symbol indicating the occupation, i.e., security forces, maintenance, fuels, historian, administration...etc.  Why can't we redesign all our badges and follow that common sense philosophy? 

   Richard J Levitt, LTC, CAP
   NER/CT011 Liason Officer

           or

  Richard J Levitt, MSGT, USAFR
  439th ASTS, NCOIC Skills Lab

[RogueLeader]

Look at any Air Force occupational style badges and the majority all have a basic design of rounded wings with some specific symbol indicating the occupation, i.e., security forces, maintenance, fuels, historian, administration...etc.  Why can't we redesign all our badges and follow that common sense philosophy? 

 

That is common sense.  We can't have any of that, now can we?

[mikeylikey]

After reading all these posts I think we have to look at the bigger picture here.  The foundation level problem is instead of trying to follow the Air Force guidance we keep inventing more badges to wear on our uniforms.  I don't care if we have hundreds of "occupational" badges to wear, just limit them to two, and two only.  We run around on Air Force bases looking like field marshalls wearing up to four different badges all over the place, plus all our aeronautical ratings as well, please, will someone tell the right people to STOP THE MADNESS...!!  Look at any Air Force occupational style badges and the majority all have a basic design of rounded wings with some specific symbol indicating the occupation, i.e., security forces, maintenance, fuels, historian, administration...etc.  Why can't we redesign all our badges and follow that common sense philosophy? 

   Richard J Levitt, LTC, CAP
   NER/CT011 Liason Officer

           or

  Richard J Levitt, MSGT, USAFR
  439th ASTS, NCOIC Skills Lab

I believe a link was posted on here somewhere that said the AF did EXACLTY what CAP is doing with badges.  They went from a plain blue uniform to one that has bling.  It was a very good read.......anybody know where it is/was?  I think CAP should standardize the development process and maybe streamline it alot!  However, we need to make people feel good, and keep them in the organization to make the corporation money right?

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'm not sure who posted the link or where it was, but the article was in Air Force Magazine.

[ZigZag911]

Do I understand that the AF is pro-bling now??

What changed??

[Eagle400]

I think CAP should propose some of these awards.

[SarDragon]

Most of which have absolutely no relevance within CAP. But then, neither do you now.

[Eagle400]

That's why I said some of the awards.

And are you implying that none of my achievements in the CAP cadet program have any relevance?

[lordmonar]

That's why I said some of the awards.

And are you implying that none of my achievements in the CAP cadet program have any relevance?

Your current acheivements and conduct have negated any thing you have acheived in the past.

[jb512]

After reading all these posts I think we have to look at the bigger picture here.  The foundation level problem is instead of trying to follow the Air Force guidance we keep inventing more badges to wear on our uniforms.  I don't care if we have hundreds of "occupational" badges to wear, just limit them to two, and two only.  We run around on Air Force bases looking like field marshalls wearing up to four differenct badges all over the place, plus all our aeronautical ratings as well, please, will someone tell the right people to STOP THE MADNESS...!!  Look at any Air Force occupational style badges and the majority all have a basic design of rounded wings with some specific symbol indicating the occupation, i.e., security forces, maintenance, fuels, historian, administration...etc.  Why can't we redesign all our badges and follow that common sense philosophy? 

   Richard J Levitt, LTC, CAP
   NER/CT011 Liason Officer

           or

  Richard J Levitt, MSGT, USAFR
  439th ASTS, NCOIC Skills Lab

I wholely agree and have the solution...  We already have the Ground Team badge that is a slightly different shape than the AF badges.  Take our GT badge, and change out the inside of it with our different emblems we already have established in our colored specialty track badges (but in silver only, no color).  Limit wear to two (or one with wings), and there's your answer.

[Hawk200]

I wholely agree and have the solution...  We already have the Ground Team badge that is a slightly different shape than the AF badges.  Take our GT badge, and change out the inside of it with our different emblems we already have established in our colored specialty track badges (but in silver only, no color).  Limit wear to two (or one with wings), and there's your answer.

Been proposed before, several dozen times as a matter of fact. One major problem is that you'll end up with two different styles of PD badges. Which will be just as confusing.

Second, Vanguard will most likely not be interested in producing a badge that reasonably should be lower cost than the current ones.

Three, it would look a little too close to the Air Force. It's best to maintain some type of indicators that are worn and shaped in a substantially different manner than the Air Force. There really is nothing wrong with the way we do it now.

I won't count this as a fourth, but if specialty badges were worn above ribbons, I would never wear one. I have two military badges that I wear in that location. Both took work to earn. The way it is at present, I can wear three badges and show experience in the Army, Air Force and Civil Air Patrol.

Just something to point out to a few people: Putting CAP and military signatures in your posts doesn't present you with any more credibility on this board. Nobody is going to look at those double signatures and say "Oh look, he's in the Air Force, he must know more than the rest of us." It's really transparent. There are people on this board that are both as well, but show the professionalism of not flaunting it. We figure out who knows the military and who doesn't.

[Eagle400]

That's why I said some of the awards.

And are you implying that none of my achievements in the CAP cadet program have any relevance?

Your current acheivements and conduct have negated any thing you have acheived in the past.

I will let those who have actually seen me in person be the judge of that! 

How can you say such a thing when you don't even know me?  That's really pathetic.  People like you make me want to join the military even more.   If it were not for a medical condition, I would be serving today.

I appreciate your service, Captain Harris.  However, that's the only thing I appreciate about you. 

[jb512]

I wholely agree and have the solution...  We already have the Ground Team badge that is a slightly different shape than the AF badges.  Take our GT badge, and change out the inside of it with our different emblems we already have established in our colored specialty track badges (but in silver only, no color).  Limit wear to two (or one with wings), and there's your answer.

Been proposed before, several dozen times as a matter of fact. One major problem is that you'll end up with two different styles of PD badges. Which will be just as confusing.

PD as in Professional Development?  Then specify one exclusively.

Second, Vanguard will most likely not be interested in producing a badge that reasonably should be lower cost than the current ones.

I have read enough to know about the $$$ involved in the two corporations, but if they don't like it, I'm certain we can find another vendor to produce our insignia.

Three, it would look a little too close to the Air Force. It's best to maintain some type of indicators that are worn and shaped in a substantially different manner than the Air Force. There really is nothing wrong with the way we do it now.

I don't see that as a bad thing.  We are the AF Auxiliary even though things are moving more and more into a "corporation".

I won't count this as a fourth, but if specialty badges were worn above ribbons, I would never wear one. I have two military badges that I wear in that location. Both took work to earn. The way it is at present, I can wear three badges and show experience in the Army, Air Force and Civil Air Patrol.

Then I would suggest placement above the nametag as a third location for silver badges.

Just something to point out to a few people: Putting CAP and military signatures in your posts doesn't present you with any more credibility on this board. Nobody is going to look at those double signatures and say "Oh look, he's in the Air Force, he must know more than the rest of us." It's really transparent. There are people on this board that are both as well, but show the professionalism of not flaunting it. We figure out who knows the military and who doesn't.

Kinda like wearing military and CAP badges on the uniform...  Maybe a better option for him would be to incorporate it all into one sig...



Well that didn't come out right......  My [ quoting ] needs a little work.....

[Hawk200]

Quotes aren't that hard. You have to keep in mind the HTML. Remember to close a quote afterward, and open up another one before the next line you're addressing. It's not hard, but it can take a little time to get used to.

The remark about double sigs was not directed at you, jaybird. It was a post above yours. I may get flamed for pointing it out, but double sigs annoy a few people. I just happened to be irritated enough at the moment to point it out.

As for shopping around for an insignia maker, there is contract with Vanguard to produce our insignia. We can't just walk away from that. Secondly, there is the issue that Vanguard is now, more or less, the sole approved source for our insignia. It would probably be a breach of contract to even contact another company.

As far as the badges themselves go, it's not really like we're wearing some garish 8 inch badge festooned with dozens of colors. Many times when I'm in blues, I've had people ask me if my Personnel badge was an Air Force one. On occasion, some Air Force personnel wear a badge on the pocket. It's not like there is no Air Force precedent.

It's one thing to look similar to the Air Force. It's another thing to emulate them. We go trying to look exactly like them, we lose our own identity, and noone in the military will take us seriously.

Many CAP personnel think we don't look like the Air Force. If you wear the Air Force blues, you do. I don't care what the 39-1 says, it is not an Air Force style uniform. It is the Air Force uniform, just with Civil Air Patrol distinctive insignia.

39-1 actually states this: "All uniform items must display a USAF certification label.  Members who buy uniform items from other than AAFES MCSSs should check the reliability of the seller and make sure each garment has an USAF certification label."

And this: "Uniform items that do not meet Air Force specifications are not authorized for wear.  Each uniform item must have this label sewn or stamped on permanently:  "USAF CERTIFICATE NO _______.  A sample of this item has been inspected and meets or exceeds the quality prescribed by AF Specification _____.""

If it's only an Air Force style uniform, why would it require a USAF certification label? Anyway, enough of that rant. Civil Air Patrol should wear things at least a little bit differently. I'm not talking aobut drastic, but what we have works. It allows association with the AF, but still maintainsour own identity. Is your reason in CAP to be an AF clone? Or to be an Auxiliary member?

[lordmonar]

That's why I said some of the awards.

And are you implying that none of my achievements in the CAP cadet program have any relevance?

Your current achievements and conduct have negated any thing you have achieved in the past.

I will let those who have actually seen me in person be the judge of that! 

How can you say such a thing when you don't even know me?  That's really pathetic.  People like you make me want to join the military even more.   If it were not for a medical condition, I would be serving today.

I appreciate your service, Captain Harris.  However, that's the only thing I appreciate about you. 

I am judging you on your conduct on this and other forums.....I do not need to actually meet you to know something about you.

Your past accomplishments with CAP do not give you any real right to make comments about our organization.  You are an outsider who for one reason or another will not or cannot commit to joining CAP.  A lot of the grief we give you would simply go away if you would join a CAP unit somewhere.  scrape up the the $75+/- and submit your paper work.  Then you can [censored] to your hearts content.

I have no idea what your "People like you make me want to join the military even more." comment means.

And finally "I appreciate your service, Captain Harris.  However, that's the only thing I appreciate about you."...it's no skin of my nose if you appreciate me or not....I'm not hear to be appreciated.

Get with the program.  You must earn the right to an opinion....in CAP the first step is to actually join the organization.  Until you do that....just shut up!

[Dragoon]

Some observations on CAP badges and awards.

I don't have a source handy, but I read somewhere that U.S. heraldry states that civilian medals will be round, while military ones can be all kinds of shapes.  That might explain why all of our older medals are round - since that's back when USAF actually had a hand in designing them.

CAP will always have issues with the amount of bling on our uniforms compared with USAF, for two reasons.

1.  We don't pay folks, so we tend to go a bit overboard with the free compensation (mainly bling)

2.  CAP folks can have several unique identities (for example, several squadron jobs plus some ES ratings).  Most real military guys have just one identity - their current MOS. So we tend to accumulate more skills badges to cover all the different "hats" we wear.

Personally, I'd like to see CAP

1.  Design all skill and PD badges to go above the pocket

2.  Limit wear on service uniforms to 1 skill badge (pilot, obs, GT, EMT, etc) and 1 PD badge (CP, Log, ES, Personnel, etc.) representing one of the individual's currently assigned staff jobs. 

That way, we'd keep the bling down AND perhaps motivivate folks to increase their training both in special skills AND in their current staff specialty.

[JohnKachenmeister]

That's why I said some of the awards.

And are you implying that none of my achievements in the CAP cadet program have any relevance?

Your current acheivements and conduct have negated any thing you have acheived in the past.

I will let those who have actually seen me in person be the judge of that! 

How can you say such a thing when you don't even know me?  That's really pathetic.  People like you make me want to join the military even more.   If it were not for a medical condition, I would be serving today.

I appreciate your service, Captain Harris.  However, that's the only thing I appreciate about you. 

I was in the military, and I agree with Pat.  You like to kvetch too much.

[jb512]

Quotes aren't that hard. You have to keep in mind the HTML. Remember to close a quote afterward, and open up another one before the next line you're addressing. It's not hard, but it can take a little time to get used to.

The remark about double sigs was not directed at you, jaybird. It was a post above yours. I may get flamed for pointing it out, but double sigs annoy a few people. I just happened to be irritated enough at the moment to point it out.

As for shopping around for an insignia maker, there is contract with Vanguard to produce our insignia. We can't just walk away from that. Secondly, there is the issue that Vanguard is now, more or less, the sole approved source for our insignia. It would probably be a breach of contract to even contact another company.

As far as the badges themselves go, it's not really like we're wearing some garish 8 inch badge festooned with dozens of colors. Many times when I'm in blues, I've had people ask me if my Personnel badge was an Air Force one. On occasion, some Air Force personnel wear a badge on the pocket. It's not like there is no Air Force precedent.

It's one thing to look similar to the Air Force. It's another thing to emulate them. We go trying to look exactly like them, we lose our own identity, and noone in the military will take us seriously.

Many CAP personnel think we don't look like the Air Force. If you wear the Air Force blues, you do. I don't care what the 39-1 says, it is not an Air Force style uniform. It is the Air Force uniform, just with Civil Air Patrol distinctive insignia.

39-1 actually states this: "All uniform items must display a USAF certification label.  Members who buy uniform items from other than AAFES MCSSs should check the reliability of the seller and make sure each garment has an USAF certification label."

And this: "Uniform items that do not meet Air Force specifications are not authorized for wear.  Each uniform item must have this label sewn or stamped on permanently:  "USAF CERTIFICATE NO _______.  A sample of this item has been inspected and meets or exceeds the quality prescribed by AF Specification _____.""

If it's only an Air Force style uniform, why would it require a USAF certification label? Anyway, enough of that rant. Civil Air Patrol should wear things at least a little bit differently. I'm not talking aobut drastic, but what we have works. It allows association with the AF, but still maintainsour own identity. Is your reason in CAP to be an AF clone? Or to be an Auxiliary member?

Ehh, I guess I need a html class.  I can't seem to break a quote up into separate boxes.  Oh, well.

I know your sig comment wasn't directed at me, I was just commenting that he should incorporate whatever titles he wanted to project on us into one.

Well, I hate that we're stuck with Vanguard then.  I haven't had any problems with them personally, and their embroidery is better quality than the hock (no offense), but I've seen the stories people here have posted.  It's our insignia and our money (and their profit).

Good point on the uniforms and I see your point about leaving the badges alone.  I like our blues and flight suits just fine, but I don't personally care for the smurf blue/white on the BDU's.  I don't want something "tactical" or military, just something a little less clashing and a little more modern.  It will be interesting to see if there is enough support to get the colors changed when we are able to switch over to the new uniform.

You know it's actually quite interesting to see how much debate there is in this place solely involving uniforms.  It has to come from the frequent changes that our bosses make so it keeps everyone stirred up.  Other organizations that I know of have two or three different uniforms that haven't changed in decades and that's just how it is.  It's one way only, and never up for debate so there's not much reason in talking about it, which keeps the focus more on the job at hand...  my two cents.