CAP Awards and Decorations

[Pylon]

There's a healthy discussion going on over at CadetStuff about underrecognition of CAP members doing a good job, and the corresponding difficulty of people below Wing-level to earn even a Commander's Commendation.

Have others had positive or negative experiences with members not getting recommendations approved, or not seeing recommendations made for deserving members?  Seems to be widespread around here.

[fyrfitrmedic]

That sort of thing has gone on for as long as I can remember.

Many moons ago, for example, A. A. Milano was notorious for shooting down awards and decorations that made it to his level in PAWG.

[Cobra_Bubbles]

Maybe I'm just showing my age but after looking at the posts from Cadet Stuff, it seems that we're getting a bit bogged down on the CC Award. (I'd post this on CS.ORG but am waiting to be approved to post) Long ago in a CAP Far Far Away.... IZ seem to recall that it was not a problem for UNIT CCs to generate a certificate for just about anything.

I haven't researched this in the regs but I can't imagine that HQ would object to a unit CC (or his/her designee) designing and issuing a local level certificate of "Merit" (since they have already used the term "achievement". Call it whatever you want and prior to issuing one, set and publish the criteria to the unit. How many programs are there out there that will generate certificates that will look as good or (dare I say) better than some of the Ivory Tower ones?

Just a thought...

[M.S.]

Maybe I'm just showing my age but after looking at the posts from Cadet Stuff, it seems that we're getting a bit bogged down on the CC Award. (I'd post this on CS.ORG but am waiting to be approved to post) Long ago in a CAP Far Far Away.... IZ seem to recall that it was not a problem for UNIT CCs to generate a certificate for just about anything.

I haven't researched this in the regs but I can't imagine that HQ would object to a unit CC (or his/her designee) designing and issuing a local level certificate of "Merit" (since they have already used the term "achievement". Call it whatever you want and prior to issuing one, set and publish the criteria to the unit. How many programs are there out there that will generate certificates that will look as good or (dare I say) better than some of the Ivory Tower ones?

Just a thought...

There is already a CAP Certificate of Appreciation (CAPC-35) that any commander at any level can request and give to members and non-members for a job well done. 

but does that set up a fair balance that a member at a squadron should get a paper certificate to put home in a folder while guys at Wing get ribbons to wear on their uniform for the rest of their CAP career?

[MIKE]

If I were king, I'd throw out the existing awards and decs and start from scratch... modeled after equivalent USAF awards with similar requirements.

[Cobra_Bubbles]

Well, lets look at this.... If the Squadron CC set up criteria for each of the "local level" awards that were fair, attainable yet challenging (not just a .. "ok, you attemnded most of the meetings so we'll forget that you didn't promote or participate in activities" award) it could be something that the Cadet (or Officer) might be quite proud of and even hang on the wall.

Also, lest we forget that the Parents of our Cadets are a vital part of the equation. If Cadet Johnny or Jane comes home with laurels, might it help to garner some more parental support?

[Cobra_Bubbles]

I'm ashamed to admit that it's been so long since I was in that I don't really recall many AF awards.... I do know that It didn't seem very hard to ger an AF Achievement Award.... just helped rennovate an old building into a new home for our squadron.

[davedove]

If I were king, I'd throw out the existing awards and decs and start from scratch... modeled after equivalent USAF awards with similar requirements.

I don't know that the requirements should be a stringent as military standards (although I'm sure we can all name many examples of people getting decorated for just doing their job).  After all, the folks in the military ARE paid for what they do.  In CAP, the ONLY recognition is through awards.  Now, I'm not saying that you should get awards for just showing up and doing your job.  There is already a ribbon for that, the Red Service Ribbon.  I will say though, that the standards  should be the same no matter what the organization level.

[Cobra_Bubbles]

Quite True! However, until Wing (or Groups and Wings if you have groups) catch on that warm fuzzys are important motivational tools (translate recruiting and retention), it will be up to the units (maybe they could work together of this?) to work toward their own survival/proliferation.(?)

Common standards for at least an entire wing would be a great thing... but until a unit or a couple of units demonstrate that it can be done and does have a positive effect, I'm thinking that Group or Wing(s) will not volunteer for the extra burden of development and oversight.

I guess I'm thinking along the lines of taking responsibility for ones self rather than operating on the mentality of Here's the problem... now YOU solve it for me.   Baby steps lead to marathons.      (Spell check is such a wonderful thing!)

[TankerT]

Quite True! However, until Wing (or Groups and Wings if you have groups) catch on that warm fuzzys are important motivational tools (translate recruiting and retention), it will be up to the units (maybe they could work together of this?) to work toward their own survival/proliferation.(?)

Why is it that everyone complains and blames Wing or Group?  (Or higher) but never looks at themselves?

We've been beating the bush for years trying to get units to recommend people for awards.  (Lets face it, most active units have at least one person that's done something above and beyond, if not only comarable to the rest of his/her unit.) 

Often, the problem isn't Wing or Group realizing that awards are a good thing for retention... it is the local unit.

If you were to sift through your wing's files for award recommendations, I think you would find it's the same 10-20% of units that submit award recommendations, and nobody else.

[lordmonar]

I think one of the problems is inconsistency across the Nation.

Some wings do it well, maintaining the standard and providing good feed back for rejected awards, while other do not.  They either just sit on them, reject them as "not Strong enough" with no futher feedback or they only give them out on the GOB system.

Doing your job well while others are doing their job poorly...is by definition above and beyond.  Doing a job above your "pay grade" is by definition above and beyond.

Standing up and doing any job at higher headquarters is above and beyond.

We need to see more CComms comming from unit level for project officers, exercise directors, training weekends.

We need to loosen up some of the horror stories about people doing good work and not being public recognized for it.

Awards are a tool we use to motivate our people.  A pat on the back and a certificate is good (and we need to give out more of these too) but we need make sure that people are getting the eye candy so they can wear it on their uniforms if that is what floats their boat.

[Major_Chuck]

In my CAP Career I've sat on both Wing and Region Awards Boards and can tell you that we almost beat our heads against the walls trying to get people to submit nominiations for the infamous "Of the Year" awards.

The other problem or opportunity is when nominations for Commanders Commendations and higher are made usually there is no real substance to the nomination.  No specifics about why they deserve a Meritious Service Award versus a Commanders Commendation outside of "Major Fred shows up at every meeting in uniform..." 

I fully agree, use the awards to recognize someones accomplishments and contributions.  Use them as a motivating tool but lets be careful not to water them down too much as well.  Let's face it, any award we have doesn't translate to promotion points or achievements and certainly does not effect our CAP Paycheck. 

Let's give the awards based upon some substance and follow up with the unit commander when they are kicked back.

(I mention substance in the awards to give the PAO folks some meat to work with when submitting news articles to local media)

[arajca]

Here's a real example of how it doesn't matter how good you are:

A former unit (senior sqdn) went a full year without mishap, accident, incident, etc with either of the two planes assigned to. Both planes were at every SAREX for the year, flown over 200 hours each, and were available for every real mission (not called up for everyone, but ready with crew for every one), plus 85% of the members completed the AEPSM, and could almost staff a full mission base internally. Put in for a UC. Returned three times because the citation wasn't worded according the wing/cc's wishes. Returned a fourth and final time because after the period the citation covered and while the paperwork was being processed, one of the members had an accident with one of the unit's a/c. The reason for the fourth return was that it would appear to reward the unit for wrecking the a/c. After which, the unit/cc decided wing was full of <male bovine fecal matter> and quit trying to get the UC.

I don't think the unit has submitted anyone for awards after that. At least they didn't before I left.

[Cobra_Bubbles]

I think that I have been looking at this issue with tunnel vision. I am referring primarily to Cadet Programs. In looking through 39-3, I'm finding very little that will apply to Cadets. The reg seems to focus on Senior Members. How many Cadets are going to have the opportunity to be involved in an activity that will first, come to the attention of the Wing CC or his/her awards board and second meet the language of the Reg.?

We have available four levels of award for personal effort and performance. Commanders Commendation through Distinguished Service Medal. Pretty much rule out the DSM and ESM for Cadets just because the recipient will have accomplished something on a Region, or National level. How many Cadets even have the opportunity to participate in a "Major Project" at that level and even if they do are the chances good that they will be selected among st the "Relatively Few whose contributions clearly stand out...." ? Maybe I'm too cynical but I think not.

This leaves us with the Meritorious Service and Commanders Commendation. MSA specifies "Awards should be restricted to the recognition of achievements and services
which are clearly outstanding and unmistakably exceptional when compared to similar achievements and accomplishments of personnel of like rank and responsibilities."

Commanders Commendation calls for "Outstanding duty performance where achievements and services are clearly and unmistakably exceptional when
compared to similar achievements and service of members of like rank and responsibility."  This would be fine however, if the award is used for reward and motivation of the other membership, approval on a local level would seem to be a bit more appropriate (to me). By setting the approval level at Corporate level (Wing CC and above) the intimidation factor alone will prevent submission for these awards (how many people that deserve the awards are the personality type to blow their own horns?). Add to this the various levels that some wings will have to go through just to get to Wing level and I can easily understand the intimidation factor.

Now to add insult to injury, the CAPC 35 (Certificate of Appreciation) is available to Unit CCs. Is this something that the average Cadet or even SM will covet? Possibly but it is also the same certificate that a Unit CC would give to the troop leader of BS Troop XXX for allowing one of his members to come to their meeting to recruit..... It just lacks the impact that an "atta boy" available only to a member that excels would.

I'm told that the "basic unit" in CAP is the Squadron but the regs deny the Unit CC from "Officially" recognizing his/her people for efforts above and beyond at their level. I am at a Composite Squadron that is suffering from a severe lack of "active" Cadets. We are stinking with Senior Members but the cadet turn over is atrocious. Awards are not the sole answer but the lack of them may be a contributor.

We don't get the "major structure fire" or serious MVA with the frequency that our Fire and EMS counterparts (read volunteers) do and therefor cannot always derive the personal or even peer level sense of satisfaction of saving a life, a families home or even of taking a dirt ball to jail (in the case of reserve Police and Deputies) for taking advantage of someone "more civilized".

Cadets are people to (and at least 1/3 of our Mission) and they need kudos just like their SM counterparts... maybe even more and for every cadet that we loose, we loose at least a few recruits through the word of mouth when the former cadet tells them why they are no longer in CAP.

I'm through talking now.

[Cobra_Bubbles]

BTW... Has anyone heard of any of the National Commander Awards going out to Safety Officers that went mishap free in 05-06 during the big safety challenge?

[TankerT]

First - those awards for safety officers.  Yes, that program was cancelled before the year was up.  As such, no awards were sent.

Well... I'm going to go out on a limb... and pretty much disagree with J_Baker here... and say that cadets are not shut out of awards as harshly as he puts it.

Mind you, 18 of my 19 of my CAP career were dedicated to the Cadet Program.  (This is my first year in positions that are not directly related to them.)

I know a few cadets that have earned an ESA.  (I will admit, DSA, is pretty much unreachable for a cadet.  But, then again, it is for 99.9% of our seniors too... so... I call close enough...)  Yes, they worked hard, and made the opportunities that opened it up for them.  Mind you, these were senior cadets, with several years in.  But, that's going to be the norm for a lot of the higher awards.  It takes time to get into positions that would put someone in the position to earn one.  (Sure, there have been exceptions to that too... but that is the norm...)

Cadets do deserve awards just like SMs.  The problem isn't the regulation.  The problem is that nobody puts in either SMs or Cadets a large portion of the time.

Sure, sometimes we'll have Commanders that don't want to pass them on.  I don't think that's the rule, just the exception.

If you have terrible turnover, awards are probably not the major issue, or the solution.

[capchiro]

I have found that my cadets that leave are not the cadets that are progressing in the program.  If a cadet progresses as they should, they earn a rank and ribbon almost every two months.  A couple of promotions in a row and they are hooked.  I do think some squadrons make it difficult for cadets to progress and maybe sometimes it is the higher ranking cadets that make it hard for the newbies.  I personally feel that we should offer every cadet the opportunity to succeed.  I have never felt that a cadet was worried or even interested in ribbons outside of the cadet program (other than a find ribbon).  I sometimes feel the emphasis of some squadrons is on emergency services and not the true cadet program.  One must put a priority on what will be offered at our limited meetings and emphasized.  So, if a lot of time is spent discussing 24 hour v 72 hour packs, the emphasis of 52-16 is probably being ignored.  As usual, JMHO.

[DNall]

I sometimes feel the emphasis of some squadrons is on emergency services and not the true cadet program.  One must put a priority on what will be offered at our limited meetings and emphasized.  So, if a lot of time is spent discussing 24 hour v 72 hour packs, the emphasis of 52-16 is probably being ignored.  As usual, JMHO.

On the money there.

If I were king, I'd throw out the existing awards and decs and start from scratch... modeled after equivalent USAF awards with similar requirements.

I'm all for that. It doesn't seem all that well put together & needs some updating.

On a related point in that process... I'd have a sit down w/ AF in the process. You know about a third of their decorations are awardable to civilians serving on AF missions? For example, the humanitarian assistance ribbon was awarded to maint crews who preped helos to deploy to Katrina but didn't actually go themselves. I'm just talking about a small handful of things on the bottom end of the scale, and of course it would be recommendations from our chain of command to the AF for approval. I think it'd be nice though to share some of those in common for a couple reasons. First, it allows current members of any service to get something extra they can wear on that side for their service with us; and second, it gives us common ground with the rank in file AF where they can see us meeting their standards & that's nothing but good. I might also propose an AF "CAP Service" ribbon that currently serving members of the military can wear to show their contribution to us - maybe just approve the red service ribbon for that purpose on real mil uniforms. I think AF would go for some of this since they are ultimately the awarding authority & it's their regs that specify who is eligible for what decorations. I mean getting a recommendation all the way thru the CAP chain AND the AU CC is a lot harder than the process for a service member.

[AlphaSigOU]

I might also propose an AF "CAP Service" ribbon that currently serving members of the military can wear to show their contribution to us - maybe just approve the red service ribbon for that purpose on real mil uniforms. I think AF would go for some of this since they are ultimately the awarding authority & it's their regs that specify who is eligible for what decorations. I mean getting a recommendation all the way thru the CAP chain AND the AU CC is a lot harder than the process for a service member.

There is a service medal already awarded for this purpose. It's the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal. Some CAP senior members currently in the military have earned this award.

[MajorChuck]

If I were king, I'd throw out the existing awards and decs and start from scratch... modeled after equivalent USAF awards with similar requirements.

I don't know that the requirements should be a stringent as military standards (although I'm sure we can all name many examples of people getting decorated for just doing their job).  After all, the folks in the military ARE paid for what they do.  In CAP, the ONLY recognition is through awards.  Now, I'm not saying that you should get awards for just showing up and doing your job.  There is already a ribbon for that, the Red Service Ribbon.  I will say though, that the standards  should be the same no matter what the organization level.

I agree,

The Only "pay" We as members recieve is thru Awards and promotions.

The problem We have in Michigan Wing isnt Wing level Command refusing to
aprove Awards and decs, its the units/ Membership are not requesting.

EXAMPLE:
Every year Wing Asks for nominations for the "OF THE YEAR"awards and its like pulling teeth to get Members/Unit CC's to nominate anyone.

And as far as Cadets being shut out, My last Communicator or the year Award (last year)I approved when I was DC went to a Cadet. :clap:

[DNall]

I might also propose an AF "CAP Service" ribbon that currently serving members of the military can wear to show their contribution to us - maybe just approve the red service ribbon for that purpose on real mil uniforms. I think AF would go for some of this since they are ultimately the awarding authority & it's their regs that specify who is eligible for what decorations. I mean getting a recommendation all the way thru the CAP chain AND the AU CC is a lot harder than the process for a service member.

There is a service medal already awarded for this purpose. It's the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal. Some CAP senior members currently in the military have earned this award.

That's not exactly automatic & depends on how your command feels about the service rendered. I was thinking more of an automatic award for a couple years CAP service annoted by the AF. The point being to recognize these folks for the specific nature of CAP serivce, and to increase awareness by their peers by calling it the CAP service medal. Actually, the really slickest way to do it is rename the red service ribbon the CAP service medal & have it adopted by AF & treated kind of like the reserve medal - basically making the one CAP medal authorized for wear on military uniform under an AF document (which lets other services wear it too).

Any reaction to the other part of the concept, working w/ AF to recommend CAP members for the many AF awards also authorized for award to civilians serving with them?

[AlphaSigOU]

Now that wouldn't be a bad idea... the reason the CAP service ribbon is called the Red Service Ribbon is because that way back in the olden days of CAP there were three colors of service ribbons, red, white and blue. The White and Blue service ribbons were retired.

[RiverAux]

I think CAP members should make a push for some of the AF medals to be awarded to CAP members when appropriate and especially when there is no real equivalent CAP medal.  For example, the Air Medal is often awarded for doing an exceptional job in getting a damaged plane safely on the ground (in fact that is the example given in the AF awards manual for the proper format for writing the citation for this award.  Every so often we hear of such a feat of airmanship from a CAP pilot and none of our awards really fit.  So, why not get the CAP-USAF State Director to get CAP-USAF (or whoever is proper) to put that member in? 

I'm not terribly impressed with Commanders Commendations.  I've seen them handed out for some incredibly minor actions. 

I think there probably aren't really good awards for exceptional cadet activity, but its not as if they're entirely shut out since they can earn the various ES awards. 

[lordmonar]

That's not exactly automatic & depends on how your command feels about the service rendered. I was thinking more of an automatic award for a couple years CAP service annoted by the AF. The point being to recognize these folks for the specific nature of CAP serivce, and to increase awareness by their peers by calling it the CAP service medal. Actually, the really slickest way to do it is rename the red service ribbon the CAP service medal & have it adopted by AF & treated kind of like the reserve medal - basically making the one CAP medal authorized for wear on military uniform under an AF document (which lets other services wear it too).

No...let's keep with the AFOVSM....it is next to automatic, the language allows it to be approved at the group level, there is not a very high standard of service...it is just for a prolong period of time not for a single event.  I got my for service to BSA and ARC over a two year period.  I have recommended the AFOVSM (and it was approved) for Airman who did many small services over a three year period.

If you gave a "CAP Membership" ribbon/medal just for being a member...then you could literally buy yourself a ribbon.  Maintain your membership for two years and you get a ribbon....well it would certainly help with the dues paying member issue.  You could set up squadrons at Tech School and sign them up by the dozen just for the ribbon alone.

Using the AFOVSM at leasts only rewards those who join CAP and do something.

If you want to get visibility on USAF for CAP service....a CAP duty badge (worn on the right pocket/under name tag) would be better.  Allow wear while a member of CAP and allow permanent wear after 2 years or so.

[DNall]

That's not exactly automatic & depends on how your command feels about the service rendered. I was thinking more of an automatic award for a couple years CAP service annoted by the AF. The point being to recognize these folks for the specific nature of CAP serivce, and to increase awareness by their peers by calling it the CAP service medal. Actually, the really slickest way to do it is rename the red service ribbon the CAP service medal & have it adopted by AF & treated kind of like the reserve medal - basically making the one CAP medal authorized for wear on military uniform under an AF document (which lets other services wear it too).

No...let's keep with the AFOVSM....it is next to automatic, the language allows it to be approved at the group level, there is not a very high standard of service...it is just for a prolong period of time not for a single event.  I got my for service to BSA and ARC over a two year period.  I have recommended the AFOVSM (and it was approved) for Airman who did many small services over a three year period.

If you gave a "CAP Membership" ribbon/medal just for being a member...then you could literally buy yourself a ribbon.  Maintain your membership for two years and you get a ribbon....well it would certainly help with the dues paying member issue.  You could set up squadrons at Tech School and sign them up by the dozen just for the ribbon alone.

Using the AFOVSM at leasts only rewards those who join CAP and do something.

If you want to get visibility on USAF for CAP service....a CAP duty badge (worn on the right pocket/under name tag) would be better.  Allow wear while a member of CAP and allow permanent wear after 2 years or so.

That's a very fair argument. The badge of course would get worn more often in the AF, but does no good for other services like a ribbon would. And, if there was a badge for it then you more than likely wouldn't get recommended for the medal also, which carries promotion points. I don't think it's a complicated issue, & I don't think it's one appropriate for CAP to figure out & propose to AF, but rather we could make a suggestion with some options from which they could work out what they're comfortable with.

How about the other end of this, the recommendation thru CAP-USAF to SECAF for award of AF decorations for service to the AF by CAP members?

These are awardable to civilians for non-combat AF missions:
Aerial Achievement Medal (this is roughly the non-combat version of the air medal)
AF Achievement Medal
AF Outstanding Unit Award (for something like Katrina where CGAux got a presidential unit citation - the AF version requires combat)
AF Organizational Excellence Award (same sort of thing as above)
AF Recognition Ribbon (for something like national senior member of the year)

These also are non-combat, but specify AF personnel, but you could argue a case for CAP members on AFAM if you wanted to & some are appropriate:
Airman's Medal
Meritorious Service
AF Commendation Medal
Humanitarian Service Medal
Military Outstanding Volunteer Service
Note: I didn't put Distinguished Service or Legion of Merit on the non-combat list cause those really seem off the page IMO. I could see some of these other ones though.

Definitions for above: (click pix)

Once again, the stated approval auth for award of AF decorations to civilians is the SecAF. That means the rec would have to go up thru the CAP chain to CAP-USAF & then up the AF chain to the secretary. That alone, plus not changing the stated standards in any way & it ALWAYS being AF that does the approving, plus we're not changing anything, just drawing their attention to something that's already possible... I think we could get an AFI out of it if they're at all amiable to it.

Far as the original discussion, you're just looking for some tweaking of the standards on the CAP service awards that makes them more common, and better standardization / quality control on the commander's commendation. That's more political in CAP, but they could fix it if they wanted to. That's not a bad idea, I just hadn't thought much about it before.

[lordmonar]

That's a very fair argument. The badge of course would get worn more often in the AF, but does no good for other services like a ribbon would. And, if there was a badge for it then you more than likely wouldn't get recommended for the medal also, which carries promotion points.

We get it approved at the DOD level and every service can wear it just like the presidental duty badge and JCS duty badge.  Also....in the USAf the AFOVSM is worth ZERO points!  Only AFAM, AFCOM, MSM, JSAM, JCOM and DSMS and above are worth anything.  So my big womping rack of 24 medals...only five of them are worth any points.

I don't think it's a complicated issue, & I don't think it's one appropriate for CAP to figure out & propose to AF, but rather we could make a suggestion with some options from which they could work out what they're comfortable with.

How about the other end of this, the recommendation thru CAP-USAF to SECAF for award of AF decorations for service to the AF by CAP members?

I think that could/should be done.  Air Medals, DFCs, and other AF medals would be appropriate.   But they would be very limited and mostly to those units on Air Force bases or those at wing and above.  But I like the idea that there could be as system for our primary customer could reward us in some way.

But.....if we open the gate....what about other customers?  ARC, Local Police, Fire Department, FEMA or anyone else we support?  We may have to be very careful of where we really want to go with something like this.

[DNall]

But.....if we open the gate....what about other customers?  ARC, Local Police, Fire Department, FEMA or anyone else we support?  We may have to be very careful of where we really want to go with something like this.

The way I'm looking at it, this is AF decorations to CAP members for AFAM service. It brings us closer together by shared recognition. Also, the AF approves what can go on our uniforms, so I'd think the slippery slope ends there. Part of the reason I mention the idea is an effort to bring CAP more into the AF family. Even if they aren't very common, the openly published proceedure & description goes a long way. However, I do think a lot of the lower end decorations would be relatively possible.

Also, my bad on the points. Don't really know the system, but extra AF decorations would look good in an Army file, even with no points assigned, whereas the CAP decorations are non-documented in the real mil, hence meaningless. I don't know if you could get a badge cleared at DoD level. I'd think you'd have a line forming after that. How about just a CAP specific ribbon device (probably the triangles cause the props look stupid).

[lordmonar]

CAP awards are worth mention on your EPRs....it is only one bullet but for SNCOs that can make the difference sometimes. 

It does not really matter that much to Junior NCOs...except they look at you last 10 years of performance reports when going to E-8 and E-9, so they don't hurt at all.

I do think something can be worked out in the AFI about awarding AF medals to CAP.  I just wonder if it would actually work well...we already have a problem of some people not getting the CAP award they deserve and others getting high level awards for just staying alive.

We need to fix our internal processes first before looking for other avenues of awards.

Definitely something to work toward though.

[RiverAux]

The precedent for awarding AF awards to CAP members when appropriate can be found with the Coast Guard which regularly recognizes CG Auxiliarists with "real" CG awards. 

[BillB]

CAP got regular military awards in the 1940's. The Air Medal for example.

[DNall]

CAP awards are worth mention on your EPRs....it is only one bullet but for SNCOs that can make the difference sometimes. 

It does not really matter that much to Junior NCOs...except they look at you last 10 years of performance reports when going to E-8 and E-9, so they don't hurt at all.

I do think something can be worked out in the AFI about awarding AF medals to CAP.  I just wonder if it would actually work well...we already have a problem of some people not getting the CAP award they deserve and others getting high level awards for just staying alive.

We need to fix our internal processes first before looking for other avenues of awards.

Definitely something to work toward though.

That's a good point on EPRs, I was just thinking we could enhance it w/ additional AF decorations. I see it kind of like being out on a mission when you get that who are you guys question & you say, "the AF sent us to take care of XYZ" which brings credibility & creates some positive assumptions you don't need to shatter. Taking the officer PMEs from AFIADL well ahead of where you need them comes in pretty handy as well. Not bad fro the cross over to other services either. Certainly there's an incentive aspect to it as well.

That's about half the battle. The other end is putting certain appropriate AF decs on civilian CAP members for AFAMs. The point of that being to build the family together from both sides.

I tend to agree that we need our house more in order before we can go fighting for things like this. If I were Nat CC, I'd got to AF w/ a series of "building together for the future" kind of ideas (augmentation, more critical/sensitive HLS missions, etc), and say: "Listen, we just want to put these out there & have you thinking about them up to  the Air Staff level. We think these make a great carrot. Now we'd like to get to work professionalizing our force to near AF standards & we'd like your help doing that. When you think we deserve increasing recognition & utilization as part of the AF family, feel free to use this list of ideas & others we can work on together to best serve the AF & country."

Far as the four CAP decorations out there for this purpose, certainly they can & should be better utilized, but that's tied to the same political progression system that give us all headaches. I don't know if it's so easy to separate, and yes I can see where you'd have to be careful w/ the recs for AF decs to keep them from turning into the same thing. Maybe the recs could be made by anyone directly to State directors & up thru the CAP-USAF to the AF chain to just sidestep the BS, how would that work?

[Pylon]

I tend to agree that we need our house more in order before we can go fighting for things like this. If I were Nat CC, I'd got to AF w/ a series of "building together for the future" kind of ideas (augmentation, more critical/sensitive HLS missions, etc), and say: "Listen, we just want to put these out there & have you thinking about them up to  the Air Staff level. We think these make a great carrot. Now we'd like to get to work professionalizing our force to near AF standards & we'd like your help doing that. When you think we deserve increasing recognition & utilization as part of the AF family, feel free to use this list of ideas & others we can work on together to best serve the AF & country."

:clap:

[SAR-EMT1]

I think there is one AF ribbon that has been forgotten and literally speaking should  be awarded to certain CAP members. This being the AF TRAINING RIBBON  :"For completion of any Air Force technical or leadership activity by a uniformed individual" ETC... --taken from af website.  Examples listed included basic training, SOS, ACSC etc...   CAP members can and do complete these courses through correspondence. And Id certainly say that we qualify as "uniformed individuals"...

[lordmonar]

I think there is one AF ribbon that has been forgotten and literally speaking should  be awarded to certain CAP members. This being the AF TRAINING RIBBON  :"For completion of any Air Force technical or leadership activity by a uniformed individual" ETC... --taken from af website.  Examples listed included basic training, SOS, ACSC etc...   CAP members can and do complete these courses through correspondence. And Id certainly say that we qualify as "uniformed individuals"...

I know what the reg says about the AF training ribbon....but they only award it for initial training.  BMTS, OTS, ROTC, or USAFA.  They don't give it to you for tech school or professional development.  So...its a no go.  And it is an example of how even the USAF itself does not read it's own regulations.

[Hawk200]

No...let's keep with the AFOVSM....

.....Using the AFOVSM at leasts only rewards those who join CAP and do something.

AFOVSM ?

[Pylon]

No...let's keep with the AFOVSM....

.....Using the AFOVSM at leasts only rewards those who join CAP and do something.

AFOVSM ?

Air Force Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal


Some USAF personnel who are also in CAP have been successful in getting this awarded for sustained CAP service - most often seen given at end-of-tour.

[AlphaSigOU]

No...let's keep with the AFOVSM....

.....Using the AFOVSM at leasts only rewards those who join CAP and do something.

AFOVSM ?

Air Force Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal


Some USAF personnel who are also in CAP have been successful in getting this awarded for sustained CAP service - most often seen given at end-of-tour.

Actually, it's the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal (MOVSM). It's awarded to all services.

[DNall]

Point being I think  there's a range of AF decs that CAP members should at times qualify for. I think that would be a good thing for AF embers working w/ CAP to get the extra incentive & potential career bump. Bigger deal though is it'd be recogniztion by AF of CAP activities. It's easy for rank in file AF to look at any of us & see you stack of ribbons they don't know, but you put some stuff up there they do know - they ask what you got that for, you say direct support of AF missions, huh never knew you guys did that & apparently pretty well cause you have to bust your butt for that one. It's a recognition, respect thing & a credibility thing. I don't know, whatever, I think it's a good idea, especially for the exceptional cases like landing dead stick on hwy btwn semis on an AFAM. Keep an F15 in one piece doing that & see what you get. So I'm for a recommendation thru to Air Staff on this one.

[Hawk200]

Actually, it's the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal (MOVSM). It's awarded to all services.

Understand now. MOVSM I know. I recieved it while active duty AF. Got it for my work with CAP. At the time I got it, I was one of three people on my base that had one.