G1000

[SarDragon]

And just think, all of Colorado is higher than the highest point in PA. By about 100 feet. 

And we mustn't forget Flat Florida, our shortest state, max elev 345 feet. 

[sparks]

That 100' elevation probably doesn't included some of the high garbage land fills

[Thrashed]

People in PA are funny.  I moved to the Poconos Mountains from California. I still have not found any mountains. If it is not at least 8,000'- it is NOT a mountain (my definition).  They talk about mountain flight training here and I laugh.  I tell them the nearest mountain is in Colorado and that's a long flight in a Cessna.

That's ok, people in CA are funny about flying in weather. 

[BillB]

I think the highest point in Central and South Florida is an I-95 overpass

[Thrashed]

Not Space Mountain?

[DG]

What the hell does a lowland state like PA need a 206 for???  That thing belongs somewhere where the additional HP is needed, i.e., mountainous/high D.A. environs.

When you fly extended SDIS missions in the middle of Class B, you learn how important it is to have 4 crew members.  Mission Pilot and Mission Observer in front and Mission Specialist (camera) and Mission Specialist (computer) aft.  And in fact, it is necessary for safety.  When orbiting low and slow doing SDIS directly under the final approach course with airliners going directly over, one after another.

We learned that early on with SDIS in PA.  We were the first (2003).  Initially with N732NS U206G (NER aircraft at the time) and then N5461X U206G (borrowed from National and later transferred to NER).

We got N206CP U206H NAVIII in April 2005.

We found early on that the U206 is the platform of choice for SDIS.  In the 182, crews wanted to land for a break after an hour and 45 minutes, tops.  In the 206, they can fly all day, with a smile.

FLWG knows that and now has N732NS (club seating).

And we just today flew 4 to another wing at the other end of region to pick up 2 aircraft.  2 pilots for receiving aircraft and the Wing Maintenance Officer (Pilot but not current).

Try doing any of that comfortably or efficiently or safely in a 172, MT7, 182 (especially C182 NAVIII), or GA-8 (with ARCHER on board.)

[Mustang]

FOUR crewmembers for an SDIS sortie? (What, no flight attendant?) 

You're kidding, right?

When you fly extended SDIS missions in the middle of Class B, you learn how important it is to have 4 crew members.  Mission Pilot and Mission Observer in front and Mission Specialist (camera) and Mission Specialist (computer) aft.  And in fact, it is necessary for safety.  When orbiting low and slow doing SDIS directly under the final approach course with airliners going directly over, one after another.

When you put it that way, I wonder how on earth I ever managed to fly over 550 hours of aerial mapping photography in a C-172, with a crew of me, myself and I, within some of the country's busiest Class B airspace including San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Dallas, New Orleans and Philadelphia, operating the camera computer system and flying the aircraft to VERY precise tolerances (+/- 5 degrees bank/pitch, desired ground track within 75 feet), for hours on end, day in and day out for months.  Why, that's simply impossible! 

[DG]

When you put it that way, I wonder how on earth I ever managed to fly over 550 hours of aerial mapping photography in a C-172, with a crew of me, myself and I, within some of the country's busiest Class B airspace including San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego, Phoenix, Salt Lake City, Dallas, New Orleans and Philadelphia, operating the camera computer system and flying the aircraft to VERY precise tolerances (+/- 5 degrees bank/pitch, desired ground track within 75 feet), for hours on end, day in and day out for months.  Why, that's simply impossible! 

I am surprised to hear you are a pilot.  You had made such a big deal over the importance of using the U206 for altitude.  You and the other posters sounded clueless when you made such a big deal over 206's needed only for higher altitudes.  We use our 206 (normally aspirated) to increase useful load and interior space over the 182, not for altitude.

Further, your flying in Class B like that sounds extremely unsafe.

And you come across like a cowboy.

An unsafe cowboy.

[truthseeker]

Yes, the 206 is a great aircraft.  Too bad we don't get to utilize this wonderful airframe for what it was intended, as it is "closely guarded" by a select few.   

[heliodoc]

I do not where CAP folks get of callin other pilots cowboys

Being a former aerial photo interpreter for a major land management agency twenty yrs ago...

It is not uncommon for aerial photo flight profiles to be done in Class B airspace.  You CAP SDIS folks operatin cameras ought to know this by now.

There are various flight profiles at different altitudes per contract requirements so I do not where DG and some other folks start clling others cowboys.  Nest thing you know CAPers are going to call pilots in Alaska,  cowboys.   There are some probably.

Flying in Class B under aerial photo / sketch mapping contracts is NOT unsafe.  Don't know where that come from , either.

As for U206 and my case C182RG's in CAP...well you can sure bet it is only flown by the few with very little opportunities for others to fly.

U206 C206/ C205/ C207 series were and are standard workhorses.  Some Wing are just lucky to have 'em.  But limiting to a certain few while their are others that fly them them for a living and some in CAP wanting to fly them, but can't, is a pure JOKE.

Again there is is NOTHING unsafe or being a cowboy about Mustang's former carrer field.  Whether CAP know its or not, there are guys doing this type of stuff everyday

What's the matter CAPers, forgot to read the new Aerospace text for cadet and seniors?  Different careers are mentioned there, including aerial photography,  Just not the contract requirements.  No cowboys in aerial photo flyin work...probably could teach a few CAPer SDIS and aerial photo folks a few things or two......

Did I enlighten any CAPers here?

[DG]

Years ago, the PA Legislature bought PAWG a Piper Aztek.

Main purpose was to transport DMVA under MOU.

PAWG later traded the Aztek for a Saratoga and eventually later still traded in the Saratoga for N206CP U-206H NAVIII.

[Mustang]

I am surprised to hear you are a pilot.  You had made such a big deal over the importance of using the U206 for altitude.  You and the other posters sounded clueless when you made such a big deal over 206's needed only for higher altitudes.  We use our 206 (normally aspirated) to increase useful load and interior space over the 182, not for altitude.

So let me get this straight: you're actually trying to make the argument that crew comfort is more important than crew safety?  In high density altitude search operations, the extra horsepower is a necessity, not a luxury.

If you NEED four crewmembers to accomplish an SDIS sortie, at least one of those crewmembers is incompetent.

Further, your flying in Class B like that sounds extremely unsafe.

Heliodoc covered this pretty well, but let me just say this: it probably would be unsafe if performed by your average CAP aircrew.  Instead, we're talking about a professional operation, flown by professional pilots who typically fly 80-100 hours a month or more--with all the proficiency benefits flying daily provides. Our mapping operations were probably a lot safer than your average CAP crew out for a grid search in the flatlands.  The average CAP pilot flies MAYBE 4-5 hours a month, most fly a lot less.

I will concede that many of the pilots performing such mapping work are low-timers working to build flight experience for charter or regional airline jobs (I was), and thus may be less experienced than some CAP pilots, but they all hold commercial certificates and instrument ratings.  Many are even CFIs.  Qualifications which most CAP pilots do not possess.  And statistically, pilots so-qualified are safer than pilots who are not.

Moreover, the operations themselves are closely coordinated with ATC, who are provided maps depicting the areas and altitudes to be flown. And when we say where and how high we'll be, that's EXACTLY where we'll be; the navigational tolerances for this sort of flying are so tight that being off course or altitude is simply not an option.  This close coordination allows us to fly virtually anywhere in the US we need to--even the prohibited areas in DC have been flown recently by mapping crews. 

And you come across like a cowboy.

An unsafe cowboy.

People who know and fly with me would suggest otherwise, but thanks for weighing in with your uninformed opinion.