The Davis Award

[flyguy06]

I really appreciate Civil AIr Patrol for naming a major award after Gen Ben O. davis. it shows their progressiveness. But I wish they would honor more African American aviation iloneeers. To be quite frank the only African American pilots most americans know about is the Tuskegee Airman. You never heard mentionabout others such as Bessie Coleman or jaques Bullard or Chief Alfred Anderson. Of course we promote these people in my squadron but it'd be nice to see CAP do the same. Heck I bet most people dont know that Willa Brown was the firs black female CAP pilot during WWII. Youdont hear abouther in CAP history.

[jimmydeanno]

You never heard mentionabout others such as Bessie Coleman

Bessie Coleman has an entire special reading section in the cadet leadership book devoted to her, FYI.

[ol'fido]

St. Louis Post Dispatch has been running a series of stories on Purple Hearts awarded to the Tuskegee Airmen. One  of the myths is that they only received eight Purple Hearts during WWII. So far they have found records for 48 and are looking for more.

www.stltoday.com/airmen

[arajca]

IIRC, there is a movement underway to rename the cadet officer achievements after people and away from duty positions. They're going to need 9 or 10 recommendations.

Start researching and writing!

[flyguy06]

IIRC, there is a movement underway to rename the cadet officer achievements after people and away from duty positions. They're going to need 9 or 10 recommendations.

Start researching and writing!

I didnt know that. Thanks

[flyguy06]

St. Louis Post Dispatch has been running a series of stories on Purple Hearts awarded to the Tuskegee Airmen. One  of the myths is that they only received eight Purple Hearts during WWII. So far they have found records for 48 and are looking for more.

www.stltoday.com/airmen

Again,The Tuskegee Airmen are theonly African AMerican pilots that people talk about. And Bessie Coleman.

[T-REA]

I read this post and a few others, and after some thought I have joined so I can post my views.. I joined many many years ago, as a cadet. That was like 1990 or 1991 heck, time has a way of moving on.. However we find, or learn that in time the focal point of history is often best seen by those who point out the items for others to see. As a DJ I can talk about the value of marketing, stop and think about this..
The reason so many know so much about the items u state, are that they "THE GROUP" is a active group. They go and speak, they educate and advise. There is no loud voice, for those who have no one to speak for them.. So if u know there name--Say it. If u know there story tell it.. Write it down, post it here, post it were u can. Advocate, educate and help others to learn about those who have been lost over time..
By the way.. I to know there names..
But again, I too was a Cadet many many --many moon's ago..
The key to education is that is alot like teaching others to fish.
One day, the will teach others.
So..Teach-
I am still in C.A.P. and I am still loving it, still learning,
and I love helping others. So- Be a voice for those who do not have one.
-Thx,
and good points made..

Capt. Rea
ARWG/SWR

[Spike]

But I wish they would honor more African American aviation iloneeers.

Lets also add Asian Americans, Latino Americans, Native Americans etc.

They contributed as well. 

I would also like to see added to the aerospace curriculum, the actual inventors of the airplane.  The folks who built prototype devices well ahead of the Wright brothers.  If you ask a Cadet who invented the airplane, the first answer is always "the Wright Bothers".  How wrong.     

[RiverAux]

I'm not a big fan of naming any award after a person no matter who they are or what they did. 

[Eclipse]

But I wish they would honor more African American aviation iloneeers.

Lets also add Asian Americans, Latino Americans, Native Americans etc.

They contributed as well.

Will there ever be a day when we're just referring to the people by name, with no concern over ethnicity?
I hope so but it won't be in my life time.

I would also like to see added to the aerospace curriculum, the actual inventors of the airplane.  The folks who built prototype devices well ahead of the Wright brothers.  If you ask a Cadet who invented the airplane, the first answer is always "the Wright Bothers".  How wrong.

Same argument with the telephone, light bulb, and even discovering America.

[Flying Pig]

Why dont we just find people we can honor without having their race be part of the equation. Are there any more CAP members we could name achievements after?  We are an organization with awards named for people who really had nothing to do with our organization.

[Cecil DP]

I would like to see achievements named after CAP members. To date the only one's we've had are Mary Feik, and General Spaatz. It would also be appropriate to name one after either A1C  Pittsenberger or SSgt Levitow, the only two USAF enlisted Congressional Medal of Honor recepients

[flyguy06]

But I wish they would honor more African American aviation iloneeers.

Lets also add Asian Americans, Latino Americans, Native Americans etc.

They contributed as well. 

I would also like to see added to the aerospace curriculum, the actual inventors of the airplane.  The folks who built prototype devices well ahead of the Wright brothers.  If you ask a Cadet who invented the airplane, the first answer is always "the Wright Bothers".  How wrong.     

Ok. you took my comments totally out of context. the point wasnt to start a race conversation. Never mind I dont even want to go their. thats not my point. geeez

[flyguy06]

I read this post and a few others, and after some thought I have joined so I can post my views.. I joined many many years ago, as a cadet. That was like 1990 or 1991 heck, time has a way of moving on.. However we find, or learn that in time the focal point of history is often best seen by those who point out the items for others to see. As a DJ I can talk about the value of marketing, stop and think about this..
The reason so many know so much about the items u state, are that they "THE GROUP" is a active group. They go and speak, they educate and advise. There is no loud voice, for those who have no one to speak for them.. So if u know there name--Say it. If u know there story tell it.. Write it down, post it here, post it were u can. Advocate, educate and help others to learn about those who have been lost over time..
By the way.. I to know there names..
But again, I too was a Cadet many many --many moon's ago..
The key to education is that is alot like teaching others to fish.
One day, the will teach others.
So..Teach-
I am still in C.A.P. and I am still loving it, still learning,
and I love helping others. So- Be a voice for those who do not have one.
-Thx,
and good points made..

Capt. Rea
ARWG/SWR

I like this. You are correct

[flyguy06]

But I wish they would honor more African American aviation iloneeers.

Lets also add Asian Americans, Latino Americans, Native Americans etc.

They contributed as well.

Will there ever be a day when we're just referring to the people by name, with no concern over ethnicity?
I hope so but it won't be in my life time.

I would also like to see added to the aerospace curriculum, the actual inventors of the airplane.  The folks who built prototype devices well ahead of the Wright brothers.  If you ask a Cadet who invented the airplane, the first answer is always "the Wright Bothers".  How wrong.

Same argument with the telephone, light bulb, and even discovering America.

I think ethnicity is important because it shows cadets they have role models. In the inner city kids dont relate to Chuck Yeager or Neil Armstrong. They do however relate to Guin Bluford and Mae Jemison because they "look" like them.

Its hard to explain if youhavent really experienced cetain things. But in some communities thereis no hope. I usd to teach elem school in the inner city and those kids have no hope they dont see themselves acheiving greatness. When I tell them I am a pilot they look at me in disbelief. that hard to understand if you havent been exposed to that environment. But I am telling you there is no hope.

So yes we need the Tuskegee Airmen to tell their story. We need to recognize minorities and women that have achieved greatness. So that young people wil realize that they too can achieve these things.

Again, my point wasnt to get into a raxce discussion. But I just felt moved to say this. If you take an average American and ask them who Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Edison was they could tell you without hesitation BUT if you asked them who Charles Drew was or ben O Davis they would have to think hard about that.

Young kids need to see role models to give them hope of a better tomorrow

[jimmydeanno]

I don't mean to sound argumentative when I say this, so please don't take it the wrong way.

Above you noted that you didn't want this to be a discussion about race, but in your first post, you specifically said, "I really appreciate Civil Air Patrol for naming a major award after Gen Ben O. Davis. It shows their progressiveness. But, I wish they would honor more African American aviation pioneers."

Then later you say that the inner city kids need different role models than the white suburbia kids because they "look like them."

All these comments, and the lead in discussion are specifically about race.  The same arguments could be made about the Asian-American kids, Native-American kids, Latino kids, etc needing role models that "look like them."

It just seems to me that you can't say "we need our organization to more actively teach about black aviation pioneers" without it becoming a discussion about why race matters in this situation.

In the case of CAP awards and such, I would assume that those that are used were those who made the most significant/memorable achievements in aviation/CAP history.

If you look at the Cadet Achievements (I'm removing the Feik and Armstrong because they were added later...)

Curry - First CAP National Commander
Arnold - First 5 Star in the Air Force, one of the first rated military pilots, instructed by the Wright Brothers, Commander of the US Army Air Corps, etc.
Wright Brothers - First sustained, powered, heavier than air flight.
Rickenbacker - "Ace of Aces"
Linberg - First transatlantic non-stop flight
Doolittle - Bombing of Japan, medal of honor recipient
Goddard - "Father of Modern Rocketry"
Mitchell - Air Power Advocate, proved aviations abilities in combat
Earhart - Female aviatrix, "most famous female aviation pioneer"
Spaatz - First Chief of Staff of the Air Force

Added Later:
Feik - High Time (5,000+ hrs) aviation engineer during WWII
Armstrong - First man to walk on the moon
Eaker - Architect of Daylight Precision Bombing in WWII, Commander in Chief of the Mediterranean Allied Air Forces, etc.

If you look at all these people, they are "key players" and played vital roles in the development of aviation during our own period of creation and development.  I don't think anyone can argue that these people did not make significant contributions to the world of aviation.

Naming things, including special readings, etc become difficult because you'll always exclude someone.  Do you include "The First Pilot" or "The First Black Pilot?"  Do you include the person with the most aerial kills in WWII or the black person with the most aerial kills in WWII?

Personally, I think that teaching about aviation pioneers is great and definitely don't discourage you from doing so.  In the meantime, you could do things in conjunction with "designated" recognition periods, like "black history month" and focus the AE lesson on black aviation pioneers - Bessie Coleman, Tuskegee Airmen, Willa Brown, Benjamin Davis, etc.

[Spike]

OR we can go back to naming achievements after numbers, pre-1960 rewrite.  "this is my achievement 1 ribbon, this is my achievement 5 ribbon, this is my completion ribbon". 

We could leaves names out of it altogether!  We could just call the achievements by what they are (Example: Achievement 1; introduction to CAP Leadership, New Member Ribbon)

How about just calling them by the rank that goes with it.  "This is my Airman ribbon, this is my chief ribbon, this is my captain ribbon"....etc

I understand it is better to name the achievements after people.  I do understand where Flyguy is coming from though.  However, I agree with Jimmy that we should not overlook one group to appease another. 

[Eclipse]

I think ethnicity is important because it shows cadets they have role models. In the inner city kids don't relate to Chuck Yeager or Neil Armstrong. They do however relate to Guin Bluford and Mae Jemison because they "look" like them.

Which is exactly the problem we're trying to squash.  Why can't they simply be impressed by the human achievement? Armstrong wasn't Chinese, either, but that doesn't change that he was the first human being on the moon.

The inverse argument is that WASPs should not be impressed by Davis, Powell, or even Jordan because the don't look like them.

[arajca]

I'll reiterate - if you want achievements named after an aviation or CAP pioneer, do your research, find an appropriate nominee and write a well-thought out and researched paper explaining your case. Ethnicity and/or gender can be ONE point, but you shouldn't try to make that the MAIN point. Even if they aren't accepted, you'll have material to add to the cirriculum.

[flyguy06]

I think ethnicity is important because it shows cadets they have role models. In the inner city kids don't relate to Chuck Yeager or Neil Armstrong. They do however relate to Guin Bluford and Mae Jemison because they "look" like them.

Which is exactly the problem we're trying to squash.  Why can't they simply be impressed by the human achievement? Armstrong wasn't Chinese, either, but that doesn't change that he was the first human being on the moon.

The inverse argument is that WASPs should not be impressed by Davis, Powell, or even Jordan because the don't look like them.

I wish the world was lije that . I really do. but unfortunantly it isnt.I dont ave the answer. I just know what I see and hear daily. I'msorry if I offended anyone. But If you havent walked a mile in my shoes then really....... nevermind. I dont want this to get out of hand. You folks dont understand and I really cant explain it and I wont try to.