Tuck in your Polo

[Spike]

Question....

Does the Polo Shirt (short sleeve variety) need to be worn tucked into the trousers by men? 

Yes, I know it looks better, but one of my members tells me men no longer have to, and I want to get an answer before the weekly meeting.  If it is true, can someone direct me to the source??

Thanks!!

[IceNine]

There are three golf shirts approved for wear. A dark blue knit shirt with embroidered CAP seal on the right breast and embroidered name and
aeronautical rating or specialty badge on the left breast; a dark blue knit shirt
with embroidered seal on the right breast, without the name or rating on left
breast; and a dark blue knit shirt with the CAP seal screen printed in white
lettering on left breast. Shirt must be worn tucked in by men unless heat
conditions on the flight line require additional air circulation. Women may
wear the shirt out of slacks but shirt length must not fall below mid-hips.

[SarDragon]

What he said, cuz he types faster than I do.

Also, there is no additional supplementary text in any of the ICLs.

[Airrace]

Yes, it must be tucked according to CAP 39-1.

[Flying Pig]

Please......tuck in your polos!!!!!! Its still a uniform. And while were at it.......if your flight suit is the same one you wore as a 2Lt in 'Nam (no offense Kack ) or you also use it for yard work, get a new one!!!!!

[Eclipse]

Does the Polo Shirt (short sleeve variety) need to be worn tucked into the trousers by men? 

No.

Find something else to worry about.

[RiverAux]

No?  Really?  Despite a reg that clearly requires it in most circumstances? 

[Eclipse]

No?  Really?  Despite a reg that clearly requires it in most circumstances?

Yes.

[Gunner C]

That's the polo shirt mentality - "I wear it because (choose one)"

• I hate uniforms
• I wear it instead of a uniform
• I don't have to conform to anything because it's not a uniform
• I don't have to do it, you're not the boss of me
• [Redacted] you - I'm playing your game by wearing this stupid shirt, now get out of my way, I wanna go flying

I had a squadron in my group that wore them.  No problem - it was what they wanted as a unit and they all wore it.  But they insisted on wearing it untucked.  I confered with the squadron CC.  He told me that they weren't going to do it.  I removed their flying priviledges, froze promotions, and held up any awards, and they saw their error.  It only took three days.

[Capt Rivera]

That's the polo shirt mentality...

I had a squadron in my group that wore them.  No problem - it was what they wanted as a unit and they all wore it.  But they insisted on wearing it untucked.  I confered with the squadron CC.  He told me that they weren't going to do it.  I removed their flying priviledges, froze promotions, and held up any awards, and they saw their error.  It only took three days.

Good job!

[Major Carrales]

It is a matter of professional appearance.  An un-tucked polo shirt does not say "US Air Force Auxiliary" as much as it says "I'm a middle school student who just won't conform to dress code."

It does not physically hurt to tuck your shirt in (although I bet there is one disingenuous fool out there that will try to make the point to the contrary, to which I will say in advance; if you are not physically fit enough to tuck in a shirt then you are not physically fit enough to fly an aircraft.)

I have long talked about the "sliding line," the more relaxed something is made it then follows that there will be some that will still want to "slide" the line down further down. 

Funny, I wonder what would happen if a reg allowed a speed-o and flip flops as a CAP Uniform.  Would some of you push for nakedness as a SAFETY ISSUE?

[Spike]

Now I am confused.  I have both yes and no answers as well as a hit against Middle School kids   

[RiverAux]

The answer is YES (except in those situations noted as exceptions in the regulation).  The "NO" that you received is an opinion on what the regulation SHOULD be, not an expression of what it IS. 

[jimmydeanno]

That's the polo shirt mentality - "I wear it because (choose one)"

I don't wear PT clothing on my cadet's PT night.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Please......tuck in your polos!!!!!! Its still a uniform. And while were at it.......if your flight suit is the same one you wore as a 2Lt in 'Nam (no offense Kack ) or you also use it for yard work, get a new one!!!!!

No offense taken.  I didn't wear a flight suit in Nam, since I was a Navy hospital corpsman then, not an aircrewman. 

Also, nothing that I wore in 1969-1970 fits me now!

[Rotorhead]

That's the polo shirt mentality - "I wear it because (choose one)"

• I hate uniforms
• I wear it instead of a uniform
• I don't have to conform to anything because it's not a uniform
• I don't have to do it, you're not the boss of me
• [Redacted] you - I'm playing your game by wearing this stupid shirt, now get out of my way, I wanna go flying

I had a squadron in my group that wore them.  No problem - it was what they wanted as a unit and they all wore it.  But they insisted on wearing it untucked.  I confered with the squadron CC.  He told me that they weren't going to do it.  I removed their flying priviledges, froze promotions, and held up any awards, and they saw their error.  It only took three days.

+1 for this.

[IceNine]

Now I am confused.  I have both yes and no answers as well as a hit against Middle School kids   

Don't be the answer according to the magic 8 ball that is 39-1 is Yes

[afgeo4]

That's the polo shirt mentality - "I wear it because (choose one)"

• I hate uniforms
• I wear it instead of a uniform
• I don't have to conform to anything because it's not a uniform
• I don't have to do it, you're not the boss of me
• [Redacted] you - I'm playing your game by wearing this stupid shirt, now get out of my way, I wanna go flying

I had a squadron in my group that wore them.  No problem - it was what they wanted as a unit and they all wore it.  But they insisted on wearing it untucked.  I confered with the squadron CC.  He told me that they weren't going to do it.  I removed their flying priviledges, froze promotions, and held up any awards, and they saw their error.  It only took three days.

You revoked flying privileges, promotions and awards of men and women who VOLUNTEER their time, money, and labor to help this country and its people because their commander decided that they should wear their polo shirts tucked out? You think they saw "their error"? I will argue that you punished everyone for the misguidance of one person, their squadron commander (who you should have replaced instead) and then proceeded to punish them all while you should have just punished the commander.

You think this makes you just or a good leader? Perhaps the uniform wear of that unit was wrong. I would admit that their commander's behavior was wrong too. However.., IMHO, your behavior as a person who is supposed to be a leader was much worse. Clearly shows you trying to flex your imaginary CAP muscle and reinforce your ego.

Threatening volunteers and denying their promotions, flying "privileges", and awards isn't going to motivate them to do better. It simply reiterates that you can do that if you want to. That's not a good CAP lesson. It's very indicative of oh so many Seniors in this organization though.

I think next time you should deal with the issue appropriately, between commanders and ONLY commanders as THEY are the ones responsible for their decisions and the decisions of their members and try to weigh in the situation. Does lack of training and loss of membership because of ego wars merit the problem itself? When the issue is of untucked polos, I think it does not.

[IceNine]

^  Everything you just said is COMPLETELY opinion.

What he did produced the desired outcome therefore it was successful.  There may have been other options but with the given information I read it as there was a liquid projectile distance contest, and the squad cc lost.

Establishing dominance and proving that you are the man in charge is a very real necessity and the amount of force necessary is dependent on the situation.  Which again is one of the issues with the volunteer mentality.

[Gunner C]

You revoked flying privileges, promotions and awards of men and women who VOLUNTEER their time, money, and labor to help this country and its people because their commander decided that they should wear their polo shirts tucked out? You think they saw "their error"? I will argue that you punished everyone for the misguidance of one person, their squadron commander (who you should have replaced instead) and then proceeded to punish them all while you should have just punished the commander.

Yes they volunteer their time.  They also volunteer to follow the rules.  If a unit, en mass decides to disobey the rules and thereby challenging the chain of command, the commander has to act or be forever impotent.  BTW, the SQDN/CC agreed with me, he just couldn't get them to follow the uniform reg.  By being the bad guy, I allowed him to maintain his relationship with his squadron without him having to break bad on them.

You think this makes you just or a good leader? Perhaps the uniform wear of that unit was wrong. I would admit that their commander's behavior was wrong too. However.., IMHO, your behavior as a person who is supposed to be a leader was much worse. Clearly shows you trying to flex your imaginary CAP muscle and reinforce your ego.

It wasn't very imaginary.  It worked.  My subordinates pushed, I demonstrated that I wouldn't tolerate an insubordinate attitude.  My ego, BTW, didn't need reinforcing.  I've commanded real units in real combat.  I did OK.

Threatening volunteers and denying their promotions, flying "privileges", and awards isn't going to motivate them to do better. It simply reiterates that you can do that if you want to. That's not a good CAP lesson. It's very indicative of oh so many Seniors in this organization though.

No, it shows that it can be done if it needs to be.  You have "privileges" in quotes.  That's exactly what they are.  They didn't want to play by the rules, so I invoked my option as a commander.  If this would have been the RM, I could have taken rank, pay, and weekends.  Here, I can just affect what they like.  They wanted to fly, I wanted them to follow the rules.  Not a good lesson?  That unit, within 6 months, was responding to mission calls within 15 minutes with complete aircrews ready to crank within an hour after that.  That unit flew more missions than any squadron in the wing.

I think next time you should deal with the issue appropriately, between commanders and ONLY commanders as THEY are the ones responsible for their decisions and the decisions of their members and try to weigh in the situation. Does lack of training and loss of membership because of ego wars merit the problem itself? When the issue is of untucked polos, I think it does not.

When the problem is small, that's the time to squash it.  Small problems get larger.  At first, it's uniforms, then fudging on paperwork, then fudging on qualifications.  Small problems, unchecked, become larger.  They don't go away.  I made the point that professionalism was going to be expected, and nothing less would be tolerated.  In return they ended up getting a HUGE number of missions, training opportunities, and more than their share of notice by the wing and higher.

If I hadn't exerted command over that unit, they would have been just another unit with their shirt tails out wondering why CAP sucks so bad.