Specialty Waiver for Promotion

[Spike]

Heck.  I was a 2d Lt in CAP for 4 years.  I did not care about rank at all, and it did not help me get my job done any bit better.  However, I did do a special Promotion, when I advanced in the reserves.  Being a CAP 2d Lt, and a National Guard CPT did seem somewhat weird to those around me.  Having Drill Weekend and wearing CPT, then turning around and Wearing 2d Lt.....confused some of my NCO full time staffers.

I could be a CAP Major now.  Man......here come those regrets........  

[AirAux]

Hopefully you have read CAPR-160 and understand how limited your role in CAP is as a Health Service Officer is.  Unfortunately you appear to have expended a lot of effort undergoing extensive education that did not benefit in like credentials.  If I understand correctly, you are licensed as an EMT-P.  Most EMT-P's have a year or so of specific training leading to their certification.  Your training with the fire department is not recognized as a need by CAP.  As such it has little to no value to CAP.  CAP limits medical care to victims as the most basic of first aid and stabilization.  CAP expects us to find them and get the professionals to them as quickly as possible.  There are many reasons for this and that is for another post.  Now, having read all of your posts, being a unit commander, being a medical officer, and being a legal officer, I would really be concerned with promoting you.  Based upon the information I have seen and my vast years of experience, I would place you in the area of being a loose cannon and you would have to prove yourself and worth to me before I would recommend you for promotion to anything.  Try not to take it personal, but that is my considered opinion.  If you are legit and worth promotion, you will receive it.  We are a group of professionals and take ourselves very seriously.  We expect you to do the same. 

[stimpy4242]

So just to clear you up, paramedics do four years of training ending in a BS...The new 160-1 actually allow for much more involvement on the behalf of the provider, at their own risk.  Before it said, like you said basic first aid, that has changed.

If you have read all my posts, you would know I haven't spent a lot of time for no credentials.  I have a Masters and almost done a Phd.  I feel pretty proud of those accomplishments.

[arajca]

So just to clear you up, paramedics do four years of training ending in a BS...

Depending on what state or program you are in. The program the local community college runs here lasts just over a year and does not earn a degree.

[stimpy4242]

Well they do operate under a medical director and each state is different on what they allow and require.  I am in MD: http://ehs.umbc.edu/

[AirAux]

Unfortunately, you are the first EMT-P I have run across that took 4 years of college to obtain same.  Most have done so with a year or less of training.  I also have a current EMT license.  I also am a doctor and a lawyer.  That said, the general consensus in both the medical and legal fields in CAP is that CAPR 160 is very limiting and if you do something in the field dumb, it exposes CAP to some very severe liability.  Therefore, it is not recommended to have medical personnel running around with suture kits and scalpels.  Again, based on personal experience, I would cast a suspicious eye on such an eager beaver.  Just remember, the commander you are asking to promote you has his reputation on the line and his butt will be in the ringer if you do something outside of the Reg's or embarrassing to CAP.  If you are legit and your desire is legit, slow down and find out what you can contribute to CAP and where and how you fit in.  After all, this isn't the coast guard aux..(Just for you RiverAux)..

[stimpy4242]

Here is an interesting question to the whole, limited practice, Maryland has a duty to act, some states don't, but Maryland does.  So if CAP doesn't want me acting and I am supposed to act, who gets sued?

[arajca]

How broad is your duty to act? Is it 24/7 regardless of whether your duty status? What if you're out of your medical director's area of responsibilty?

Legal details like these should be asked of YOUR WING's Legal Officer. Here we can give you a bunch of opinions, some informed, some not, but we (generally) do not have enough information to provide wing specific advice.

[stimpy4242]

Maryland has a statewide EMS System.  MIEMSS.  So we can operate anywhere in the state under our state protocols, additional procedures can be performed in specific areas based on that advanced program.  A duty to act is 24/7 not just while on duty.  Anytime you could be tied to having a medical license which the paramedics have, the EMTs have a certification they do not have a medical license in our state.

I will ask our wing legal advisor, in fact the MDWG nursing officer has already private messaged me for some details.

I am tired...going to bed

[AirAux]

As a lawyer, I could tell you, but then I would have to bill you.. Actually those are some of the problems in CAP.  I know you are licensed nationally, but are you licensed in Maryland??  If so, you need to contact the Maryland Wing legal officer and get their official opinion, preferably in writing.  After you do that, check with other CAP medical service officers and see what local practices are among them.  Remember, in CAP you are not under a Medical Director as you are in civilian life.  Therefore your responsibilities may not be the same.  If you get in trouble in civilian life, the Medical Director could be liable also, as you are in essence under his/her direction and license.  Not so in CAP.  As I said before, there are many good and legitimate reasons for the restrictions placed on CAP medical personnel.  Believe it or not, there is a much bigger picture here than you getting promoted.  We sometimes sacrafice individually for the greater good of the whole. That is the nature of this beast.  That is why we are leary of someone that is so consumed with their own worth.  I sincerely hope you stick around long enough to appreciate the professionalism and uniqueness of our great organisation.  I have been with it for over 30 years this time and am one of it's biggest fans.  Almost every poster on this board is dedicated and supports CAP to the nth degree.  If you need help they will provide it, however, they can smell BS from miles away.  Try some humbleness and try to fit in, not make CAP fit you and your unusual chosen career path. 

[James Shaw]

I have attended over 300 hours of national curriculum classes for the fire department, many of which are accredited for post graduate credits.  I also have a MS degree as well as a doctoral student.  I am an advanced practice paramedic as well as a private pilot.  I just attended SLS and sat thinking that it was SO BASIC and this is something I did in the fire department 10 years ago.  Since then I have taken Fire Officer Courses up to levels of managing entire fire departments.

I am seeking the rank of Capt.  Given my ability to provide transcripts and documentation for all the above does this seem reasonable or difficult to achieve?

Your academic background though impressive does not specifically fit into the "check off" sections of our organization. This does not mean that they are any less valuable than others.  That does mean that you have to figure out where you fit into the organization. That is the great thing about the organization it is "voluntary". Obviously you are passionate about your work and people that you work with in CAP will notice that. Let this shine through and the promotion may come.

You stated that SLS is SO BASIC. This may hold true for you but it may not for others. That does not mean that it is any less important to other CAP members who’s life experiences and educational background do not match yours. Be careful how you degrade the level of training offered to our members, that type of “perceived” opinion will hurt you greatly amongst your peers. Our National Commander is very passionate about professional development and our specific programs.  I have attended almost every PD course there is and I learn from every course. I learn “more” from the people than I do from the course. I have been Squadron, Wing, Region and now National Staff and hold a National Office. I just recently attended Unit Commanders Course and I already have Level V. The course was great but the people I met were better.
I will tell you honestly that if you came to me as a Squadron Commander with the attitude of “entitlement of grade” based on what you have listed than I would turn it down. Not because it doesn’t fit but because you need to figure out how to adapt your skills and passions for the organization not the other way around. The advanced promotions for the other areas such as Aerospace Officer is because it is in direct support of our missions, just like being a CFI it is in direct support of our mission. We are not a life flight type group and your advanced training would get you further and faster with something like that.

I have thousands of hours in the military as an intelligence analyst, WAS a basic level EMT years ago when I joined, have ADVANCED level skills and training in communications systems from NSA, USN, USA, and other unique skills. I came in as a SM and was just as effective as a SM as I am as a Major (after 10 years). I have 5 Master Ratings and 1 Basic. And get this I am now a Historian. Our structural hierarchy has no “solid authority”. By this I mean if you are a Lt. Col and a CNA and you come to an emergency scene than you are the best bet at the time. If you are a SM and an EMT-P… with ALS skills than you are the person for the job. Who would I listen to and work with the SM.

We have retired Generals, and Admirals in CAP who hold the rank of Lt. Col. In CAP. They are experts in their field and are highly respected no matter what rank they wear.

I love being a Historian and it shows in my work and my peers recognize it, what more can you ask for? I have done pretty good this far!!

[stimpy4242]

I was not the only one to say it was so basic, so were a few of the SLS INSTRUCTORS!  I guess they should learn not to say that then?

[Chappie]

There was a time when Chaplains could waive the SLS/CLC by reading the 221 and 221A specialty track pamphlets and taking a test.  That was changed by action of the National Board (based on recommendation of the CCAC and presented by Cols Jay Hughes and Bryon Cooper) last year.  When the proposed CAPR 265-1 is adopted, promotions beyond the initial appointment will be based on completing the levels of training in the Senior Member Professional Development Program...and not from simply breathing (time-in-grade).   The 221 Series is also being updated to reflect that the other specialty training tracks.   The members of the CCAC have felt and feel strongly that Chaplains need to know the history/culture/organization of CAP in order to perform our missions effectively.

BTW - I have completed every level of training in the Senior Member Professional Development program...as well as serving on staffs at SLS/CLC/UCC/CCRSC/NSC.

[RADIOMAN015]

Some people that have been in CAP for a long time are of the opinion that CAP should do away with senior rank anyways.

My view is that one's assigned position in a unit is much more important than one's rank.   So I would think with the original poster's skills that he would be assigned in the Emergency Services area, perhaps as the Assistant Emergency Services Officer, or ES Training Officer.   From my standpoint ones demonstrated skills/knowledge is much more important than rank!

As others have posted, you do sense that there's some resentment IF a member joins and has specific skills and or prior military grade that allows him/her to enter after phase I with a higher rank as allowed by CAP policy.   It is kind of childish in a way and validates with some long term high ranking members' opinions are.

As far as training goes, I don't believe in being critical of any training provided, because it is volunteers taking their time to do their best in providing this training, and I believe we should show respect to them!   
RM 

[Hawk200]

My post:

This one reminds me of a person that came to a meeting, stayed a while, and at the end of the meeting asked, "What can CAP do for me?".

Talked to him for awhile, but he didn't seem interested in making any contribution. Just wanted to know what was in it for him, and what rank he could get. Even thought that he'd be eligible for higher rank since he was aircrew.

By the time it was done, I discouraged him from returning. Wasn't hard, just let him know that he had to bring something to the table, but he just didn't see that.

And your post:

Wow I appreciate the positive message in the post above...you're right, I guess I don't have anything to offer.  Thank you for setting me straight.

I simply said your posts remind me of that person, I didn't state that you didn't have anything to contribute. Some people could, would and will infer that I was directly accusing you of such, but that wasn't the intent. Then again, I didn't state that person didn't have anything to contribute, just that he didn't seem to want to.

To me, (and probably a few others here), it seems that you are only looking for what you can get. Musings such as this reinforce that:

I did notice that, I wonder if you could infer that professional development wouldn't be necessary...

That gives the appearance of "I don't think I should have to do anything further."

Most of your posts equate to "I deserve ..., I am entitled to ..., because I already have ......"

A lot of folks here find those posts disturbing. Your outlook or views of entitlement are not compatible with what our organization is. We're not here for advancement of self. Professional progression is expected. Placing your own desires above the organization's goals isn't. You're here to serve others.

With all the above aside, here's some food for thought: A lot of people will tell you that you're crazy for doing this for free.

[Hawk200]

Some people that have been in CAP for a long time are of the opinion that CAP should do away with senior rank anyways.

So are some that have an extremely short time are of the same opinion. Length of time doesn't validate the viewpoint.

My view is that one's assigned position in a unit is much more important than one's rank.   So I would think with the original poster's skills that he would be assigned in the Emergency Services area, perhaps as the Assistant Emergency Services Officer, or ES Training Officer.   From my standpoint ones demonstrated skills/knowledge is much more important than rank!

It's actually the same way in the military. If a general knows that a private has a skillset acquired from before the military, he relies on that source. He trusts an Intel soldier to get him information. He trusts the pilot to deliver him to where he needs to go. He relies on a Supply sergeant to provide him with what he needs. Commanding doesn't make one a master of all needs.

As others have posted, you do sense that there's some resentment IF a member joins and has specific skills and or prior military grade that allows him/her to enter after phase I with a higher rank as allowed by CAP policy.   It is kind of childish in a way and validates with some long term high ranking members' opinions are.

And most of those opinions are the "They didn't get it here like I did" view. It is simple envy. And a desire to put everyone on the same footing, even if they lose out themselves. "If I can't have it, no one else should either."

As far as training goes, I don't believe in being critical of any training provided, because it is volunteers taking their time to do their best in providing this training, and I believe we should show respect to them!   
RM

No one is critical of the training, the training is simply not identified as being of use to us, so CAP doesn't offer anything for it. Someone could have a Bachelors in basket weaving, but we don't have any need for it, so we wouldn't offer anything for it.

Some people don't realize that the time they give CAP counts for something. It just takes a little longer for the recognition.

[Flying Pig]

Sounds like your looking for a 'title" to put on a resume.  Captain sounds better than Lt.

[PHall]

Some people don't realize that the time they give CAP counts for something. It just takes a little longer for the recognition.

Well, if you're in the military, the time you give CAP does count towards getting the Military Outstanding Volunteer Service Medal. It ain't much, but at least it's something.

[heliodoc]

Stimpy

I'm going to take a stab at this one for a moment.  This my second time around CAP in the Wing I started with in 1974.  Took a 30 yr hiatus ...came in around 2005 in another Wing and became the AEO.  Sort of fun.  Some folks could care less about any of the CAP AE missions and put a heavy emphasis on GT / UDF and what not training.

Now, mind you, I have a degree in Forestry and a minor in Fire and Aviation Management, 22 years as an Army helicopter mechanic for light, medium, and heavy lift  and became a Technical Inspector (TI) for the last 10 of my enlistment, spent over 15 years in the wildland fire biz and attained my COMML / INST / MULTI and A&P and worked civilian aircraft MX for approx 10 yrs.

When I joined CAP, I looked at that advanced rank stuff.  Left it behind.  Know why? Folks in CAP barely were interested in a Forester with an aviation background.  Barely listened to what I had to say in most "circles" in the current Wing.  Even some the "CAP maintenance types" who barely have an A&P can seem to talk the talk with me or some others with same background.  So what I did is get the Squadron a training playground through working with the ARNG and let the Sqdn ES guy run with it and the ARNG facility folks.  They have become some professional buddies thru all this.  I then in my spare time, for giggles, have taught a few of the cadets (approx 20 pax)  on the finer workings of map and compass WITHOUT  their GPS units,,,the old way .    Do stuff quietly without a lot of fanfare and leave whatever Wing or Sqdn a better place.  If they give you a plaque or recognition... GREAT.   If they do not....Then go ahead and question that squadron or Wing's integrity and its ability to REALLY recognize the QUIET actors in the organization. 

So Stimp, I am going to impart this liiiiitle piece of CAP knowledge, that I came up with on my own, after reading your CV, my man, which is pretty impressive......

Do not worry about the CAP rank and grade structure for now.  Just impart that current high speed knowledge you have acquired OUTSIDE of CAP and introduce and work it quietly with those that are interested in your degree field and that high speed EMT.  Share that knowledge, even though CAP has its kniptsions about the med field, rappelling field, towing and handling aircraft videos that are suppose to make CAP superstars on how to tow and recover aircraft, and just about every thing else CAP works with.

You soon find out your education is worth FAAAAAAR more than that CAP CPT sets of bars...

How do I know??  I am a CAP "Crappedon" after 5 years in this organization.........Guess what kind of raise I received through CAP after all that life's education in the ES and AEROSPACE world, that local and Wing CAP (current) does not even be or appear interested.  I already knew how to serve the organization and since you are new to it.... I won't be the 30 yrs CAP type who will call you a loose cannon and say I wouldn't promote you.   I'd have to sit down with an individual and try to help them"steer" their education towards CAP.

So Stimp, enjoy the ride in CAP, hope u can plow through all "education" that CAP can provide for "leadership" experiences.  Hopefully, with your background, Someone in your Wing could recognize your background and help you steer it towards something applicable in CAP.  Some times even being a pilot outside of CAP does not even apply to anything inside of CAP.  So run with it, Stimpy, with or without that illustrious CAP rank and grade that can barely get one a cup of coffee at Starbucks......

[stimpy4242]

A lot of folks here find those posts disturbing. Your outlook or views of entitlement are not compatible with what our organization is. We're not here for advancement of self. Professional progression is expected. Placing your own desires above the organization's goals isn't. You're here to serve others.

With all the above aside, here's some food for thought: A lot of people will tell you that you're crazy for doing this for free.

Thanks for letting me know what the organization is all about.  I have been volunteering in the Fire Department now for more than 10 years.  Always a top 10 responder.  I know what it is to give back to my community.  Also, I have an opportunity to do that for my community multiple times a day in the FD.  So you don't need to tell me what volunteer service is all about.  Since I have joined CAP we have not had a single call for search.  So in reference to providing good to my community, I am well aware and have been doing it for a long long time.

Also my resume doesn't need some CAP rank to make it impressive.  I am pretty proud of what I have accomplished already and it speaks for itself.  In addition, I am self employed so I don't really need to hand my resume to anyone.