NHQ to discontinue Access version of CAPWatch

[Eclipse]

The CAPWATCH downloads in Microsoft Access format will be discontinued on 01 January 2010. The text file version, which has been available for several months to help with the transition, will continue. The tools and processes used to create the Access versions are no longer supported by Microsoft making it impractical to continue this format. A detailed mapping of the tables and fields in the Access and text versions is available under the Documentation link.

Does anyone have real info on what this will mean to SIMs? 

I'm pushing its use hard, but without an easy import function that's going to be an uphill climb.

(Let's leave MS bashing out of this and just address the question.)

[jimmydeanno]

I don't really mind, so long as all the information that is pulled from it can be built into a reporting function like in the cadet promotion utility.  The PD Report, S-3, etc...

[Eclipse]

I just checked and the text files are a collection of .csv's with the .txt extension.  Certainly usable for anyone with a little savvy and initiative, but just like the CAP Watch Access tables, useless without some kind of a front end like SIMs.

[RiverAux]

Well, this is not great news.  At least with the Access version the neophytes could use the file to gin up some basic reports and those of us with more Access experience could do a lot with it.  Yes, the txt files should be convertable, but it will be a pain. 

[NIN]

Next thing you know, they'll do something like changing the charter number structure because the original structure was too hard to decipher..

Oh, wait.

[Larry Mangum]

For those of you who have MS Access, CSV files cab be imported into access. It may take a little work but scripts can be be created in access that when run, can properly tranfer the information into the appropriate  tables.

[airdale]

For those of you who have MS Access, CSV files cab be imported into access. It may take a little work but ...

Certainly usable for anyone with a little savvy and initiative ...

... the txt files should be convertable, but it will be a pain.

Yes, this way hundreds of people across the country can each do a monthly task that could be done once at National instead.  Multiple choice question:

Why?

A) Arrogance
B) Incompetence
C) Laziness
D) All of the above
E) Other

It must be wonderful to work in an organization where cost/benefit decisions are strictly limited to deciding what is good for oneself.

[gistek]

But remember, those hundreds (or even thousands) of people who will now be doing the conversions and writing scripts are volunteers, and the one person at HQ who pushes the button that runs the conversion at National is a paid employee. Therefore it costs CAP le$$ to provide .csv files.

[airdale]

But remember, those hundreds (or even thousands) of people who will now be doing the conversions and writing scripts are volunteers, and the one person at HQ who pushes the button that runs the conversion at National is a paid employee. Therefore it costs CAP le$$ to provide .csv files.

Exactly my point.  The cost-benefit decision is being made very narrowly.

Actually the better poster child for this, IMHO, is the mandated 10,000+ man-hours of watching ground handling videos.  (1) They have no estimate of how many $$ ground handling accidents are costing them and (2) they have no cost reduction target for the program.  So, there is no way to know whether the program is effective or cost-effective.  It will never die.

If an employee came to me with this kind of crackpot cost-benefit thinking, he would be at risk of becoming an ex-employee.

[Eclipse]

Except you have no idea what you're talking about, which is great considering the tone of your messages.

My guess is that because of licensing costs the tools NHQ was using to convert the data were getting too expensive to justify their continued use.

I'd be willing to bet that the number of Unit CC's actually downloading the files for SIMs or other use was pretty low. 

[jimmydeanno]

I would download it, not for SIMs, but for the reporting functions: address labels, S-3, PD Report, etc.

While not the greatest, it provided information we don't get anymore at the local level...

If they can replace that in some web based app, that'd be great.  Otherwise we all end up having to take a course on converting .csv into a database and creating our own custom reports, etc.

[airdale]

Except you have no idea what you're talking about

From NHQ based on a question I sent in: "Exact figures are not available, but are significant and the video will hopefully go a long way in reducing these costs."  Real businesses don't make decisions on "hopefully."  At least not successful ones.  I have no idea whether this is a cost-effective program or not.  But neither do they, nor do they have a means to find out.

My guess is that because of licensing costs the tools NHQ was using to convert the data were getting too expensive

My guess is that your guess is wrong.  Microsoft does not have recurring licensing costs for this type of product, nor do their products stop working simply because they are no longer formally supported.  Also, any of the workarounds mentioned here could be done at NHQ.  Once a month.  Even if it is only twenty people who would otherwise have to do that work, doing it just once would still be the cost-effective decision.

I'd be willing to bet that the number of Unit CC's actually downloading the files ...

Their server logs will be a good starting point, should they wish to do a cost-benefit analysis.  If no one is using the Access files, then the decision to abandon them is the correct one.  No need to speculate when facts are available.

[NC Hokie]

I would download it, not for SIMs, but for the reporting functions: address labels, S-3, PD Report, etc.

While not the greatest, it provided information we don't get anymore at the local level...

If they can replace that in some web based app, that'd be great.  Otherwise we all end up having to take a course on converting .csv into a database and creating our own custom reports, etc.

You could just save the Dec 2009 MDB and import the new CSV files into it when you download them.

[NC Hokie]

BTW, the developer of SIMS has been aware of this since January and has already stated that he "can definitiely update SIMS to import flat text files."

http://squadroncommand.com/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=2&showtopic=1533&mode=&onlytopic=&show=10&page=2

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I find it very hard to believe that a web application running on MS IIS and SQL Server can not produce Access files. The technique they were using may be outdated.

[Pumbaa]

Agreed.. Someone does not know what they are doing..

Why oh why does HQ refuse to seek the help of volunteers who have MAJOR skills to get the job done and they are just clamoring to help!?!?!?!

More and more I am getting tired of the way the org. is run.  I find my interest levels going down as more SHTF each week.  I'll stick with CD missions and that's it.

[NC Hokie]

I find it very hard to believe that a web application running on MS IIS and SQL Server can not produce Access files. The technique they were using may be outdated.

I don't think there's any "may" about it, as they flatly say that the "the tools and processes used to create the Access versions are no longer supported by Microsoft." 

Since the CAPWatch database is available for Access 2000, I suspect that it is created as a native Access 2000 file and converted to the XP and 2007 formats.  If that is indeed the case, the section on upcoming kill dates towards the bottom of this article explains the timing of this move:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/07/microsoft_xp_free_support_ends_april/

[jimmydeanno]

National Headquarters is always listening.  If you as a volunteer have an idea that will make their job easier or know how to do something, send it to them - I'm sure they'll at least entertain the idea.

[NC Hokie]

National Headquarters is always listening.  If you as a volunteer have an idea that will make their job easier or know how to do something, send it to them - I'm sure they'll at least entertain the idea.

Two problems with this:

1) The membership doesn't always know that there is a need until AFTER NHQ has already decided what to do.

2) If you do become aware of a need, you gotta send your suggestion up thru the chain, which often becomes a black hole from which ideas never escape.

The ideal solution would be for NHQ to recognize the need, send it DOWN the chain to the membership, and have some process in place that allows for DIRECT communication from those volunteers willing and able to help.

[jimmydeanno]

2) If you do become aware of a need, you gotta send your suggestion up thru the chain, which often becomes a black hole from which ideas never escape.

NHQ paid staffers receive a bunch of unsolicited ideas daily from volunteers without them going through "the chain."  Simple things like "I think it would be better to organize this webpage like this" or "Can this thing become available on the website?" are all taken care of without having to get the National Board to vote on it.

I've sent suggestions regarding website layout, reports for the cadet promotion utility, etc.  All were received and looked into - much was actually created/implemented. 

Just the other day the person I was offering ideas to sent an e-mail to my Wing CC telling him that he appreciated the suggestions and what a great help it was.  The Wing CC's response wasn't "why didn't you send these through me?" but "Keep up the great work."

We're not talking about regulation changes that have a specified path to take, but simple things to make the everyday life of the volunteer easier - something they'd like to do, but don't know how we use the information available.

They are extremely receptive if you identify the issue AND offer a solution instead of just saying "the website sucks" or "you guys fail at this."

So, send up your suggestion - I'm sure someone will respond in some way.

[SarDragon]

I would download it, not for SIMs, but for the reporting functions: address labels, S-3, PD Report, etc.

While not the greatest, it provided information we don't get anymore at the local level...

If they can replace that in some web based app, that'd be great.  Otherwise we all end up having to take a course on converting .csv into a database and creating our own custom reports, etc.

As for working with .CSV files for Jimmy's purposes, pull the file into Excel, instead of Access, and do the same mail merge magic. Excel automatically recognizes .CSV files, and processes them very easily.

[Eclipse]

You can do all manner of things with .CSV's.

I just want to dump them quickly into SIMs, not reinvent the wheel.

[Eclipse]

BTW, the developer of SIMS has been aware of this since January and has already stated that he "can definitiely update SIMS to import flat text files."

http://squadroncommand.com/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=2&showtopic=1533&mode=&onlytopic=&show=10&page=2

A tool to convert the files is posted here:
http://cid-68346388060ddd7d.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/CAP|_SIMS/CAPWATCH

I haven't tested it yet, but others have and say it works fine.  Hopefully by the end of the year it will be somewhat more automated.

[twe]

I'm looking for a tool to change all the text files back into CAPWATCH.mdb.
What would be perfect is a program to look in the directory with the downloaded and unzipped  .txt files and convert all of them, one at a time, so that the result would be CAPWATCH.mdb that I could then import into Access and use all the SQL queries I've written over the last 5 years or so. I'll write one myself if I have to, but why re-invent the wheel.

[RiverAux]

I've just imported the tables one by one into an Access database.  I usually only use a couple of them, so its not that much trouble. 

[NC Hokie]

I'm looking for a tool to change all the text files back into CAPWATCH.mdb.
What would be perfect is a program to look in the directory with the downloaded and unzipped  .txt files and convert all of them, one at a time, so that the result would be CAPWATCH.mdb that I could then import into Access and use all the SQL queries I've written over the last 5 years or so. I'll write one myself if I have to, but why re-invent the wheel.

There's a link for two CAPWATCH conversion tools (Access 2003 or Access 2000) in the last post on this page:
http://squadroncommand.com/forum/viewtopic.php?forum=2&showtopic=1712&mode=&onlytopic=&show=10&page=2

You might need to tweak the table names a bit as I believe NHQ made some changes since this was posted in December.  BTW, if you're NOT using SIMS to work with CAPWATCH you might want to give it a try.

[twe]

-- I'll try the suggested link.
-- I'm using lots of the tables to do some wing-level tracking, and I'm checking for updates a couple of times per week, so importing the .txt files by hand is not a realistic option.
-- The newly released SIMS is working fine for my squadron.

[Nick]

I'm looking for a tool to change all the text files back into CAPWATCH.mdb.
What would be perfect is a program to look in the directory with the downloaded and unzipped  .txt files and convert all of them, one at a time, so that the result would be CAPWATCH.mdb that I could then import into Access and use all the SQL queries I've written over the last 5 years or so. I'll write one myself if I have to, but why re-invent the wheel.

Assuming you just want a database and aren't integrating with SIMS...

Download the .zip from eServices and extract it to a folder. 
Create yourself an empty Access database (call it CAPWATCH.mdb if you want).
Create linked tables to each text file.
Done.

When you want to update the data, just re-extract the .zip to the folder you originally created.

[twe]

Re: Create linked tables to each text file.
That's exactly the problem: there are a couple of dozen tables, and manually doing something for each one individually is simply not reasonable to do a couple of times/week. Do you know of an automatic way to link to **all** the text files in one fell swoop?

[NC Hokie]

Re: Create linked tables to each text file.
That's exactly the problem: there are a couple of dozen tables, and manually doing something for each one individually is simply not reasonable to do a couple of times/week. Do you know of an automatic way to link to **all** the text files in one fell swoop?

The link I gave you in Reply #25 is the best option available at the moment.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Re: Create linked tables to each text file.
That's exactly the problem: there are a couple of dozen tables, and manually doing something for each one individually is simply not reasonable to do a couple of times/week. Do you know of an automatic way to link to **all** the text files in one fell swoop?

You could write an Access macro or VBA code to do this.

However, Access stores the path to the object of a linked table (text file in this case). If you change the target file the new data is available in Access. I would close the database before updating the CAPWATCH text files

[SarDragon]

You only have to do the table links once. Just make a special directory for the data files, and keep only the current set there. Every time you open the database with the links, it will use whichever files are in that directory. The files in that directory MUST have the file names used when doing the links.

I have a setup like that for another database I use, and once the initial links were established, it was a piece of pie.