Had my First actual aircrew mission yesterday

[flyguy06]

I have been in CAP for 25 years starting as a very young cadet. As a Senior Member I have mostly concentrated on the cadet program and building a positive programin my community. About two years ago I decided to get active in ES. I became a Mission Scanner, Observer and last year went to NESA to Mission pilot school. Did everything except the Form 91 so I am a qualified Observer.

Got the call on Monday morning about a nondistress ELT  and drove up to the airport, did the preflight while the MP did wht he does and we took off with a UDF guyon the ground. We found the ELT in a subdivision. A guy was building an airplane and accidentaly set off his ELT.

It was a fun mission. I learned a lot. Now I neeed to finishup the MP thing. All I need is a Form 91 but its been solong since Ihad done the training Ineed to get retrained on the GX55.

Anyway just thought I'd shre the story and say how much I do enjoy ES. My goal is to become an AOBD and eventually a IC. We dont have enough in my Wing.

[Eclipse]

Congrats on finally getting to an actual and on the new bling for the ribbon rack - don't forget to add the prop since you were aircrew, and start tracking those sorties towards the SAR ribbon.

I'll let someone else ask about why the UDF team was only one guy.

[flyguy06]

Cool. I was wondering if I am entitled to a ribbon. Since it was the UDF guy that actually went up to the house and turned it of. What form do I use to request it?

[Eclipse]

Cool. I was wondering if I am entitled to a ribbon. Since it was the UDF guy that actually went up to the house and turned it of. What form do I use to request it?

The IC should prepare a PA, certificate or similar that indicates who participated, and sorties / ribbon credit.  Unfortunately they don't always do that, and when they do, don't always jump on it.

It would be via a Form 2A, indicating the ribbon "Find", and clasp "Propeller", with the mission number noted in the remarks area.  Assuming all things are equal, this would be a find ribbon w/ prop for the aircrew and one sortie for each member towards the 10 needed for the SAR ribbon.

Since most states require wing approval for Finds, sending up the 2a should prompt the Wing to issue a PA, or atleast approve the decoration.

When you eventually get your SAR ribbon, it would have a prop as well since at least one of the sorties was aircrew.

Its the IC's call, but most standard practice is to award everyone involved in the search, ground and air, with a find ribbon once its deactivated, and generally not award one if its located but not deactivated.

I've never been involved in an ELT run where the A/C's weren't awarded Finds with the GT's - unless you have a really long stick or a parachute, its pretty hard for A/C's to do anything but point.   

[flyguy06]

Thanks for the info

[SJFedor]

I have been in CAP for 25 years starting as a very young cadet. As a Senior Member I have mostly concentrated on the cadet program and building a positive programin my community. About two years ago I decided to get active in ES. I became a Mission Scanner, Observer and last year went to NESA to Mission pilot school. Did everything except the Form 91 so I am a qualified Observer.

Got the call on Monday morning about a nondistress ELT  and drove up to the airport, did the preflight while the MP did wht he does and we took off with a UDF guyon the ground. We found the ELT in a subdivision. A guy was building an airplane and accidentaly set off his ELT.

It was a fun mission. I learned a lot. Now I neeed to finishup the MP thing. All I need is a Form 91 but its been solong since Ihad done the training Ineed to get retrained on the GX55.

Anyway just thought I'd shre the story and say how much I do enjoy ES. My goal is to become an AOBD and eventually a IC. We dont have enough in my Wing.

If you need some help with the GX55, give me a shout man! I'll be glad to road trip down to the ATL sometime and work with ya for a few hours on it!

[davidsinn]

Congrats on finally getting to an actual and on the new bling for the ribbon rack - don't forget to add the prop since you were aircrew, and start tracking those sorties towards the SAR ribbon.

I'll let someone else ask about why the UDF team was only one guy.

I'll be that guy. 

[flyguy06]

Thanks Steven. I have no idea. Is not supposed to only be one guy?

[jb512]

Doesn't the aircraft get a sticker too?

[Eclipse]

Thanks Steven. I have no idea. Is not supposed to only be one guy?

A UDF team must be comprised of a minimum of two members - that's a pretty serious safety and reg violation when its not.
Just as a GT must be at least 4, including a qaul'ed GTL, and there is also a prescribed ratio of qualified to trainees which must be followed.

Doesn't the aircraft get a sticker too?

Not officially - they make a find sticker for it, but you better ask the POC before you start slapping stickers on the plane, especially if its on one with the new paint scheme.   I think only only plane in my state has a fine sticker and its a pretty old one (the sticker and the plane).

[RiverAux]

Putting a find sticker on a vehicle for a non-distress find is extremely lame.  Distress finds, sure, but even then I'm not sure plastering our planes with those little ribbons is a great idea.

[IceNine]

Are you kidding I've got about 30 of them how else am I going to cover those fender benders on the COV's?   

[jb512]

Putting a find sticker on a vehicle for a non-distress find is extremely lame.  Distress finds, sure, but even then I'm not sure plastering our planes with those little ribbons is a great idea.

Oh. 

Guess that makes the bumper stickers and chrome chick mud flaps not a good idea after all.

[flyguy06]

ohhh, ok

[bosshawk]

Apollo used to have a GX55 sim on their website, but I am told that it is buried.  One of our guys Googled "GX55" and went right to the sim.  Its a whole lot better to sit and play with the sim than it is to wear the battery on the airplane down.  If you have an external power source for your airplane, then have at it.  I solved the issue by buying a used GX55 and having it installed in the panel of my own airplane.  Now, I don't have to switch back and forth between GPSs.  I know---not everyone has an airplane. It is merely a hole in the sky into which you pour money.

[SJFedor]

Apollo used to have a GX55 sim on their website, but I am told that it is buried.  One of our guys Googled "GX55" and went right to the sim.  Its a whole lot better to sit and play with the sim than it is to wear the battery on the airplane down.  If you have an external power source for your airplane, then have at it.  I solved the issue by buying a used GX55 and having it installed in the panel of my own airplane.  Now, I don't have to switch back and forth between GPSs.  I know---not everyone has an airplane. It is merely a hole in the sky into which you pour money.

Concur. Play with that sim, along with using the in-flight guide you got at NESA, which has step-by-step instructions for setting up each type of search. It'll help you memorize where things are hidden. Then when you get in the plane, it's just a matter of converting mouse clicks to knob turns.

[DG]

Thanks Steven. I have no idea. Is not supposed to only be one guy?

A UDF team must be comprised of a minimum of two members - that's a pretty serious safety and reg violation when its not.
Just as a GT must be at least 4, including a qaul'ed GTL, and there is also a prescribed ratio of qualified to trainees which must be followed.

OK, so let me understand this, exactly.

I am a Mission Observer on an aircrew.

We find the ELT which is sending a non-distress signal for all to hear.

For safety reasons and to avoid reg violations, I am NOT to do all I can to turn it off.

Two questions:

Q1.  How do I report that to AFRCC?

Q2.  Do I ignore the safety reasons and reg violations, it instead of non-distee, it is a distress ELT scenario?

[Eclipse]

Aircrews fly in airplanes, ground and UDF teams search on the ground.

An airborne aircrew is not physically capable of deactivating or even determining within more than a few hundred feet (generally) where an active ELT is.   As a mission observer you have no business poking around an airport looking for an ELT, your job, and qualification, is in the airplane, not ground search activities.

An aircrew, without UDF qualifications as well, has no business prosecuting a ground search at an airport where they believe the ELT is.  This is one of the reasons why my units stress the need for aircrews to also be UDF qualified as well, so they can fly to an airport and then search for and deactivate an ELT if they find it.  Even with that qualification in your hip pocket, you'd still need specific permission to land and leave the aircraft in the capacity of UDF.  From a mission perspective, without that permission, you're "just" an MO, and don't have any more business being on the ground operationally than an AOBD (who also happens to be a GBD) has getting involved in Ground Ops at the mission base.

You wouldn't report to the AFRCC, you would report to the mission IC, who would then dispatch a ground or UDF team to the area your aircrew has determined is likely where the ELT is, although any IC worth his salt already has one enroute or in the same area (which your aircrew is coordinating with).

I'm not sure what "safety reasons" you're referring to - if you come upon an actual downed aircraft, you'd report it to the IC and wait for instructions, in most cases you're going to orbit the area to guide in EMS, etc.

In reference to Fly's OP - he was on an aircrew, and apparently there was a UDF "team" comprised of exactly 1 person, a clear violation of the minimum manning prescribed by the regulations and the applicable training text.

[_]

An aircrew, without UDF qualifications as well, has no business prosecuting a ground search at an airport where they believe the ELT is. 

Required task for mission pilots:
O-2007 LOCATE AND SILENCE AN ELT ON THE GROUND

The aircrew task guide includes several tasks about locating a beacon on the ground and shutting it off. 

[SJFedor]

An aircrew, without UDF qualifications as well, has no business prosecuting a ground search at an airport where they believe the ELT is. 

Required task for mission pilots:
O-2007 LOCATE AND SILENCE AN ELT ON THE GROUND

The aircrew task guide includes several tasks about locating a beacon on the ground and shutting it off. 

Mmhmm. It's required knowledge for us to know how to land and shut one off.

Bob, I understand what you're saying, but, as an experienced operator, you know that the SARSAT system can (or at least used to, not sure about the 406's) only handle so many active alerts. So you can have one non-distress ELT covering up a distress ELT. How can you justify to that person who's down in their aircraft that there was a delay in finding them because we had to wait an extra 2 hours for a GT/UDFT to get their rears in gear to come out and flip a switch, so the SARSAT could pick up their signal? Or, more real world situation, there's no way an IC is going to willingly stay up another buncha hours at 2AM so a GT can drive out to the location and turn it off, when the aircrew is sitting right next to the source and can very competently handle the situation.

In an aircraft (especially with a becker) I can typically taxi right up to where the signal is originating, assuming it's on the field. I typically only ever have to get out of the aircraft to have someone turn the bad boy off, write down the specifics, use the toilet, and fly back home.

For the record, if I find a downed aircraft right next to an airport, my IC is going to be the 2nd phone call I make. My first will be as soon as my wheels touch the ground (or maybe prior, it's an emergency situation and I can go ahead and violate FARs as I need to) to 911 informing them of the whereabouts of this crash. Would I proceed on foot? Negative, as me being in my aircrew role, I wouldn't be properly equipped to do so. If it's ON the airport, I'd obviously attempt to render aid as appropriate.

Bob, I understand your affinity for GT related activities, and I can somewhat understand your rationale. But please, if you could entertain me, show me where in regulation it states that me as an MP (barring the fact that i'm also a GTL) cannot land the plane and, 99% of the time, request airport authorities or the owner to shut off their ELT? Because no GT/UDFT is going to do anything more magical then locate the source and start making phone calls to get someone to turn it off, something that myself and my "no business poking around an airport" mission observer are perfectly capable of doing.