Encampment Packing Lists

[Stonewall]

I was just looking at the FLWG Winter Encampment website, which is very well done by the way, and it got me thinking when I looked at the packing list.

I have always noticed mimimum requirements being far above what the CAP minimum standard is for cadets.  For instance, the encampment requires at least two sets of BDUs and two sets of blues (short-sleeve).  How many doolie cadets have this?  Except for the lifer cadets, usually officers or senior NCOs, how many junior cadets have more than one pair of each?  Especially since a majority of encampment attendees are newer, younger, and first timers.

In 1987 at Tyndall AFB I brought one blues and one fatigue uniform.  Didn't bother me and no one else seemed to care.  I don't know if I even washed it.  Honestly, I don't recall washing facilities there.

Is this a realistic expectation or is it one of those "bring this many, but we'll accept anything" policies?

[Maj Ballard]

I've seen cadets arrive at encampment without a uniform, period. I've seen others arrive sans nametapes or grade insignia. In those instances, I fault the unit commander who approved that cadet's application (and readiness) to attend.

With that said, *technically* we can't even require BDUs, since the "minimum basic uniform" is the short sleeve service uniform. It's always been a bit troublesome to me to require "doolies"/basics to wear brown t-shirts (specifically), since these are increasingly hard to come by, especially for cadets nowhere near a military base.

[Eclipse]

I've seen too much of that as well - considering that minimum grade to attend an encampment is Curry, and Curry requires a proper uniform, it amazes me that cadets show up so woefully unprepared.

I've gotten pretty good with Photoshop for nametapes and nametags.

As to the BDU "requirement" question - its never been an issue in the 7 years I've been involved with encampments, but comes up in conversation each year.

We issue 2 t-shirts, so that's a non-issue, though I don't agree the browns are getting hard to come by.  I also don't believe a encampment cc can require one color over another when both black and brown are approved (unless they are issuing them as many do).

Common sense would say that the average cadet cannot wear the same clothes, especially in a hot, active, summer environment, for an entire week - there's hygiene issues to be aware of if nothing else.  Encampment is the time to step things up and get your act together, and if that means having to buy/beg/borrow another set of BDU's, so be it. 

With that said, I have never turned away a cadet because of uniform problems - the encampment is one place to get those squared away, and I've amassed a pretty good pile of "leavings" in the form of hats, belts, etc., to give to those who "forgot".

I also have the advantage of two weekends vs. a week, so even for the really messy ones, its two days and you're home.

A brand-new doolies cadet is going to get more slack than a diamond who I know has spent $300 on ABU's for paintball but can't be bothered to buy the proper outerwear.

Our equipment list indicates that for cadets who do not have proper outerwear, at a minimum they should use common sense and choose jackets in subdued colors so as to not attract attention to their violations.  Despite this we get cadets every year in bright-colored "bratz-style" jackets with fur collars, glitter, and all manner of silliness.  In a lot of cases those cadets are "promoted" because of seniors giving up their jackets. (and as a funny sidebar, some of them troll salutes in the seniors' jackets - amazing!)

In answer to the original question, there's little choice but to indicate the requirements and then look the other way, since by reg we can't actually require anything (for cadets), that isn't issued to them beyond the basic service uniform.  I would say, though, that by the same token, it is not specifically the encampment's responsibility to provide the gear or clothing, and if you send your kid to a midwestern encampment in April without the proper clothing, there's some parental common sense that needs to be addressed.

[MIKE]

I'd argue that participation in an encampment is not manditory...  It's only "required" if you want to progress past phase II.  Can't meet the requirements for an optional actvity... Don't come.

[SWASH]

You can relate being in CAP as being a living, breathing human.  In that sense you can then relate Encampment to School.  Sure, everybody has the right to attend school, but to do it they have to spend money of school supplies.  Sure, every cadet has the right to attend encampment, but to do it they  have to spend money on encampment supplies.  Obviously this is not the best analagy because not everyone has money for school supplies, but... you get my point.

Now as I look at my FLWG equipment list I see that the "minimum" is 2 blues.  That is pretty odd... 

This year we have to bring our own linens.  I don't give 2 cents about brinign white sheets, but this year no green sheets will be provided for bunk making.  That is a big issue as a 12 year old girl (heck, even boy) could bring her Hannah Montanna blanket.  This will almost rob cadets of encampment by not having these simple green sheets.  But then again, we have to make with what we have....

[MIKE]

Say plain dark blanket then... That's what MAWG has done... plain unfitted linens/sheets etc.  I always brought my OD U.S. blanket for looks, and my poncho liner for actual use as a blanket.

[Eclipse]

Green sheets?  Like really "green"?

Why are they green?

[Stonewall]

I think it's a bad state when cadets have to bring their own linen to a Type A encampment...

[Eclipse]

Its seems a bit odd, but by the same token somebody's gotta provide them and wash them, and the stuff ain't free.

Again we're incredibly fortunate regarding our Navy hosts - last year we had ~130 people using a rack -
that's 130+ blankets, 260+ sheets, and 130+ pillows with cases.

The RTC can absorb that laundry without a blink, but for some bases that aren't normally "residential" (such as many of the guard facilities used by CAP), where's that going to come from?

I'd say if the participants have to bring linens, then sleeping bags should be a valid option, but those are real hard to get into hospital corners, and the rack inspections are such a big part of the experience for a lot of cadets.

Again, are they actually "green"?  Every base I've ever stayed on had white sheets and gray wool blankets w/ the "US" on it.

[JAFO78]

^^^ They are green if they have not been washed with bleach.^^^^^

Gross I know, but hey its early yet.

[SWASH]

By green I meant the wool blanket. The sheets are still white. And out of the three encampments I've gone to only one had laundry equipment for us to use, and with it we only washed PT cloths.

[Stonewall]

Who needs to wash sheets more than once a week anyway?  In basic training we exchanged linen once a week, and trust me, we weren't the cleanest folks in the world.

[CadetProgramGuy]

For the NCR encampments in Iowa, we always drew linen from supply, then turned everything back in at the end of the week.  No washing of linen was involved.

[Pingree1492]

This will almost rob cadets of encampment by not having these simple green sheets. 

Granted, I've never been to the particular encampment you're talking about, and every one is a little bit different... but how will not having sheets, or having a "Hannah Montana" blanket rob a cadet of encampment?  Isn't there a little bit more to the whole week other than making your bed and dorm maintenance?   

[Stonewall]

This will almost rob cadets of encampment by not having these simple green sheets. 

Granted, I've never been to the particular encampment you're talking about, and every one is a little bit different... but how will not having sheets, or having a "Hannah Montana" blanket rob a cadet of encampment?  Isn't there a little bit more to the whole week other than making your bed and dorm maintenance? 

You know, one would think that such a small part of encampment would be irrelevant, but I think it's a huge part of encampment.  When I was a cadet and preparing for encampment with my Flight Sergeant, he stressed the importance of a tight bunk, perfectly arranged drawers and having my shoes placed in the exact spot.

CAP encampments are not supposed to be fun in the sun summer camps for kids to frolic and play; it's a rite of passage of sorts.  And while encampments are inteded to be fun, the fun isn't always realized until after the fact.  In short, it's the small things that make an encampment.  We watched a drone launch and get shot down by an F-15,  we had cool briefings by Vietnam era PJs and rescue pilots, "live fire" exercises with crash rescue and obstacle courses.  But it was the daily activities such as room and uniform inspections, standing in the chow line being asked memorization requirements and being held accountable for everything.  To me, that's what encampment is all about.  The other stuff is just a bonus.

And yes, I said encampment is a rite of passage.

[notaNCO forever]

 Not having the proper sheets or blanket will result in that cadet being gigged in every inspection therefore it will reflect badly on the entire flight since they are a team and when one fails they all fail.

[Eclipse]

And yes, I said encampment is a right of passage.

I agree 100% and sadly a lot of encampments have forgotten that for the sake of being more inclusive or political correctness.

Its not BMT, not even close, but it is supposed to be an "outside your comfort zone experience" that forces you to
suck it up a little and experience the "real world" where not every rule and reg is loosened to insure no one's feeling are hurt.

Not every one gets a trophy, there are wrong answers, and sometimes its ok to be in the middle of the pack.

To some extent the above should apply for the seniors involved as well.

[Stonewall]

Its not BMT, not even close,

I disagree.  I have been to Basic Training and encampment as a doolie.

CAP Encampment: Marching, inspections, chow hall, chow lines, sleeping in a bunk, having to make that bunk, ironing uniforms, PT, being in a flight with element leaders, flight sergeants and "brass" walking around; customs & courtesies, briefings and uniforms.

Army Basic Training:  Marching, inspections, chow hall, chow lines, sleeping in a bunk, having to make that bunk, ironing unfiroms, PT, being in a platoon with squad leaders, drill sergeants and "brass" walking around; customs & courtesies, briefings and uniforms....plus all the combat related training.

Looks pretty similar to me.

My wife went to AF BMT and she pretty much agrees that AF BMT is a helluva lot more like a CAP encampment than Army Basic Training.  They even have 341s at AF BMT, just like I had at my encampments.

[Stonewall]

Not having the proper sheets or blanket will result in that cadet being gigged in every inspection therefore it will reflect badly on the entire flight since they are a team and when one fails they all fail.

You can't gig someone if they weren't issued the right sheets.  There is only one thing mandatory in CAP as far as uniforms and equipment and that's the short-sleeve blues uniform with flight cap, belt, shoes.

[LtCol057]

Out of 9 encampments I've been to, we've had sheets at 2. rest of the time we've used sleeping bags.  Forgot, we did use sheets at Blue Beret. But where we've used sleeping bags, every morning we rolled or folded them up to the head end of the cot.   Of the 2 places we used sheets, one we had maid service so every other day we had fresh sheets. The other place, I had a private room because I was on Senior Staff and my room was on a floor that was off limits to cadets.

[Eclipse]

Not having the proper sheets or blanket will result in that cadet being gigged in every inspection therefore it will reflect badly on the entire flight since they are a team and when one fails they all fail.

You can't gig someone if they weren't issued the right sheets.  There is only one thing mandatory in CAP as far as uniforms and equipment and that's the short-sleeve blues uniform with flight cap, belt, shoes.

Here I don't agree - with respect to uniforms, yes, the regs are clear about what you can actually mandate, however other equipment is anyone's call - you can't play on a Ground Team without 24/72, you can't launch rockets w/o rockets, and if the packing list says bring your own sheets, and you don't, or bring something inappropriate, gigs are fair game.

I know someone will want to play the poverty card, but come on, the vast majority of our cadets are not impoverished beggars barely able to scrape enough money together for ribbons.  Ever seen what it costs for football or hockey? Not to mention the latest X-Box games?

If a particular activity has equipment requirements that are too onerous, then maybe you can't attend this year, or have to go to a different encampment.  In this case, assuming the cadet has a bed, two sheets and a blanket are not going to break them.

A PITA to have to drag them with?  Yes.  But some venues simply cannot provide that service.  The alternative is going to be raising the cost of the activity to provide the linens.

[Stonewall]

Out of 9 encampments I've been to, we've had sheets at 2.

I have participated in 3 encampments, but have visited my cadets at every one in about a 14 year time period.  Until I created this topic, I have never heard of cadets being required to bring their own linen.  Two sheets, pillow and pillow case, and green wool blanket with US.  In fact, I have been to a few encampments where they issued two wool blankets; one for a "dust cover".

[MIKE]

Not having the proper sheets or blanket will result in that cadet being gigged in every inspection therefore it will reflect badly on the entire flight since they are a team and when one fails they all fail.

You can't gig someone if they weren't issued the right sheets.  There is only one thing mandatory in CAP as far as uniforms and equipment and that's the short-sleeve blues uniform with flight cap, belt, shoes.

UK, that was writen for cadets who go to meetings once a week for 2.5 hours... and do next to nothing else.  i.e. drill, take tests and sit and listen.

[Stonewall]

UK, that was writen for cadets who go to meetings once a week for 2.5 hours... and do next to nothing else.  i.e. drill, take tests and sit and listen.

True.  True.

And trust me, I'm not one of those guys that cries "poverty" and "their parents don't have money".  To be in our program there is an expectation of having certain things, a set of BDUs is one of them.  But to me, having specific linen is over the top.  Sure, tell'em to bring a fart sack sleeping bag, that's fine.  But it certainly takes away from the cadets' encampment experience.

[MIKE]

A set of white twin unfitted sheets and a pillow case and a plain dark blanket is over the top?  Most cadets can probably use that on their own bed when they get home.  And I'd rather be between some sheets than an old fart sack when it's in the 90s anyway.

What about the 8 pairs of boot socks, brown/black t-shirts etc?  I never needed that many except for encampment.

You want an encampment where the only uniform cadets wear is one set of short-sleeved service uniform... and they get to go home every night?

[Stonewall]

Silly

No, of course not.  Thought you knew me better than that.  I just think it sucks that cadets have to bring their own sheets and blanket to encampment.  It detracts from the experience of being a military style enviornment when there isn't enough consistency in something as simple as bunks so that they can be inspected using the same standard (different sheets, blankets, pillows).

You may not agree, but I think something as simple as a bunk inspection is important to the experience at encampment.

[Eclipse]

You may not agree, but I think something as simple as a bunk inspection is important to the experience at encampment.

I agree with that - the sheer mental and physical effort some cadets put into getting their bunks "tight and right" is amazing.  Its as important as the ever-present shoe-shine (which is going to open a lot of cadet time when we get ABU's).

We've got to deal with "coffin lockers",

which means no way to get under and "tuck flags", etc.  A few years ago the RDC's showed some of the cadets the technique the recruits use (requires a canteen), and now its cool each year to see that being passed down to the new guys without and prompting.

But if the Navy suddenly told us they couldn't provide linens, we'd be in the same world of hurt.

[SWASH]

Now as I think of it, yes cadets not being able to make bunks does take away from the bunk making experience.  But on the other hand you can still standarize the bunks.  Just have cadets tuck in the sheets nice and tight, then fold the sleeping bag in a certain way.  It is not as elaborant, but if you are creative you can standarize just about anything.

Heres something to think about: Last Sunday in church our pastor was talking about life impactss.  He was talking about how major life accomplishes may seem like life changing moments, but it really the thousands of small experience that change your life.  Cadets may think that they graduated encampment and magically become better cadets, but it is really the bunk making, inspections, drill, standing in lines, the SOP, etc.

[AvroArrow]

My first encampment was just this summer at MOWG.

You were required to bring your own linens. However, the equipment list was very clear: bring conservative, white bed sheets, pillow cases, towels and wash clothes, etc. If you didn't, your "secret" was discovering during in-processing, and you were sent home (luckily everyone brought white linens).

Also, the equipment list asked for two BDUs, but required one. There were several cadets who only brought one and/or only wore one BDU; Camp Crowder has a washing facility, so personal hygiene nor clothing condition was a concern even though some of the cadet decided not to wash their clothes (their homes were apparently more sterile). The encampment was still a blast, and the smells honestly were no where near as bad as it could've been.

Though I don't have the years of experience, I'm confident to say that if you make the rules clear, cadets would/should follow them. Besides, as I've said to many of my fellow cadets, nice civies with a tie at the maximum only costs $30 at Wal-mart or Target, and that goes the same with linens. And as you all have pointed out, not many of our members can pull the excuse of poverty considering that there are both national and squadron dues.

Just my two cents.

[SarDragon]

We've got to deal with "coffin lockers"

Did you have to remind me of those horrid things? 

Did you? 

[BGNightfall]

We've got to deal with "coffin lockers",

I think I lived in that compartment in basic...

[Eclipse]

We've got to deal with "coffin lockers",

I think I lived in that compartment in basic...

Do you remember what ship you were on?

[BGNightfall]

Do you remember what ship you were on?

Actually, I seriously doubt that was my compartment.  I was in Ship 6 (U.S.S. Constitution) and our bearthing was usually full with all of the 900 divisions and the guys on the first deck. 

I'm guessing that one is over in one of the "new buildings" in Camp John Paul Jones?

[Eclipse]

Do you remember what ship you were on?

Actually, I seriously doubt that was my compartment.  I was in Ship 6 (U.S.S. Constitution) and our berthing was usually full with all of the 900 divisions and the guys on the first deck. 

I'm guessing that one is over in one of the "new buildings" in Camp John Paul Jones?

Its entirely possible that's from the Constitution, when I get a chance I'll see if I can dig the date on the photo.  Over the last 5-6 years we've been on 5 different ships, and of course they all look the same.

We're usually on an emptier one, or one between divisions, so generally they are empty and always the compartments are when we arrive.

I'm still waiting to hear from a cadet who later joins the Navy to see if there were any "BTDT moments" during BMT.  We eat, sleep and play just like the recruits, so its bound to start popping up.

[BGNightfall]

For my own part, I did my encampment at Tri-Wing Encampment in MD.  Still, there were a great deal of BTDT moments when I got to RTC.  In point of fact, there were  a few times where I was a bit disappointed in RTC, since at Tri-Wing we had had significantly more exacting regulations to follow.  Also, I do remember the canteen trick, as well as using my "Rickie Notebook" to fold down my top sheet.  I bet if I were put to it, I could even properly fold my blanket, with triangle fold. 

I'm actually quite intrigued by this idea of having an encampment at RTC.  Do the cadets get run through SAM-T?  Or do line-handling on the Marlinespike? 

Those are a couple of my favorite memories from RTC.  Well, that and performing at my graduation. 

[Eclipse]

I'm actually quite intrigued by this idea of having an encampment at RTC.  Do the cadets get run through SAM-T?  Or do line-handling on the Marlinespike? 

Those are a couple of my favorite memories from RTC.  Well, that and performing at my graduation. 

Yes, they do SAMT (and will have access to an all-new facility this year), The Marlinespike, and some training in the combat pool.  We also have graduation in the Midway.

One year we had access to the confidence course, but they took it down and have not replaced it yet.

BTW - I checked, those pics of the compartment are from the Constitution from 2003.  That was the last year we spent any time in the old ships, the first weekend was on an old one, the second weekend on the Constitution - we were the first non-Navy group to stay there, and have had a tradition of helping to open ships since then. Talk about a night and day difference!

More info here:  http://encampment.group22.net/

[BGNightfall]

Ooooo this just made my day.  I can hear in my head a CAP cadet on the sound powered telephone "Boatswains Mate of the watch, aye!"   

Congratulations to all of you in IL Wing.  It's great to see CAP working with the Navy so closely.  Rather makes me wish I'd been at RTC in the summer months instead. 

[davidsinn]

I'm actually quite intrigued by this idea of having an encampment at RTC.  Do the cadets get run through SAM-T?  Or do line-handling on the Marlinespike? 

Those are a couple of my favorite memories from RTC.  Well, that and performing at my graduation. 

Yes, they do SAMT (and will have access to an all-new facility this year), The Marlinespike, and some training in the combat pool.  We also have graduation in the Midway.

One year we had access to the confidence course, but they took it down and have not replaced it yet.

BTW - I checked, those pics of the compartment are from the Constitution from 2003.  That was the last year we spent any time in the old ships, the first weekend was on an old one, the second weekend on the Constitution - we were the first non-Navy group to stay there, and have had a tradition of helping to open ships since then. Talk about a night and day difference!

More info here:  http://encampment.group22.net/

What is the Battle Stations that's on the permission forms? My cadets keep asking me about it.

[Eclipse]

What is the Battle Stations that's on the permission forms? My cadets keep asking me about it.

Sadly its something that we ask for every year and have yet to be granted access to.

The new Battlestations 21 is the new culmination of Recruit training - a virtual reality simulator of a ship named the U.S.S. Trayer which puts recruits through an onboard-ship attack/disaster scenario similar to what happened to the U.S.S. Cole, including several hundred thousands gallons of salt water, real fire, and areas of the ship that are askew in the same way as if the ship had been attacked.

It was completed in late 2007 and opened in 2008 - we'll likely never be able to actually run the drills, but have been hoping for a tour since we started watching the buildings going up.  So far, the answer has been no for both safety and national security reasons.

Frankly, I'm a little surprised at how much is being shown now publicly, this time last year it was difficult to find anything on the web about it.

We'll keep asking, and on the odd chance they let us in to see it, the permission slips will have already been in the channel.




http://www.edwardstechnologies.com/military-technology.asp (video)

http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=40854

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3738/is_200312/ai_n9321061

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=30434

[davidsinn]

What is the Battle Stations that's on the permission forms? My cadets keep asking me about it.

Sadly its something that we ask for every year and have yet to be granted access to.

The new Battlestations 21 is the new culmination of Recruit training - a virtual reality simulator of a ship named the U.S.S. Trayer which puts recruits through an onboard-ship attack/disaster scenario similar to what happened to the U.S.S. Cole, including several hundred thousands gallons of salt water, real fire, and areas of the ship that are askew in the same way as if the ship had been attacked.

It was completed in late 2007 and opened in 2008 - we'll likely never be able to actually run the drills, but have been hoping for a tour since we started watching the buildings going up.  So far, the answer has been no for both safety and national security reasons.

Frankly, I'm a little surprised at how much is being shown now publicly, this time last year it was difficult to find anything on the web about it.

We'll keep asking, and on the odd chance they let us in to see it, the permission slips will have already been in the channel.




http://www.edwardstechnologies.com/military-technology.asp (video)

http://www.news.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=40854

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3738/is_200312/ai_n9321061

http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=30434

I've heard about that. If we could get on it that would be Sierra Hotel. It doesn't surprise me that we can't do it though.

[NC Hokie]

What is the Battle Stations that's on the permission forms? My cadets keep asking me about it.

Sadly its something that we ask for every year and have yet to be granted access to.

The new Battlestations 21 is the new culmination of Recruit training - a virtual reality simulator of a ship named the U.S.S. Trayer which puts recruits through an onboard-ship attack/disaster scenario similar to what happened to the U.S.S. Cole, including several hundred thousands gallons of salt water, real fire, and areas of the ship that are askew in the same way as if the ship had been attacked.

I did something similar to this in NJROTC and it ROCKED!  The second year I went, the Master Chief running the simulator figured he'd go easy on the "kids" and pull his punches (so to speak).  He seemed upset when we had the ship stabilized within 30 minutes and sent us back in.  I don't know what all he did but we were on the bottom within 20 minutes.

[BGNightfall]

When I went through RTC they were still putting the finishing touches on Battlestations 21, and unfortunately my division did not get the opportunity to run it.  Instead we ran the old Battlestations, which I suppose I can talk about a bit now, since it has gone the way of the dinosaurs and the Winter Working Blue uniform. 

For our Battlestations we spent the entire night running around between places like the firing range, the combat pool, the old battle stations building, and several others.  My good friend, who has been with me every step of the way since boot camp, got bashed in the face with the stretcher during Mass Casualties and needed stitches to finish.  She missed the swimming drills but was with us through the rest of the night. 

I also remember vividly the bomb drills with our masks on... I couldn't see my hand in front of my face between the smoke in the air and my lack of glasses.  So my previously mentioned friend guided me through the whole exercise by the hand. 

The whole of the night was not really a pass/fail, or a right the ship or not kind of drill, it was more of a training exercise so that we could go through the motions effectively.

[jimmydeanno]

What is the Battle Stations that's on the permission forms? My cadets keep asking me about it.

Sadly its something that we ask for every year and have yet to be granted access to.

The new Battlestations 21 is the new culmination of Recruit training - a virtual reality simulator of a ship named the U.S.S. Trayer which puts recruits through an onboard-ship attack/disaster scenario similar to what happened to the U.S.S. Cole, including several hundred thousands gallons of salt water, real fire, and areas of the ship that are askew in the same way as if the ship had been attacked.

I did something similar to this in NJROTC and it ROCKED!  The second year I went, the Master Chief running the simulator figured he'd go easy on the "kids" and pull his punches (so to speak).  He seemed upset when we had the ship stabilized within 30 minutes and sent us back in.  I don't know what all he did but we were on the bottom within 20 minutes.

I took my last squadron to the damage control facility at Norfolk NAS.  They had a blast.  The guys taught the cadets how to shore up hatches, patch holes, fix burst pipes, etc.  Then they went into the room that fills with water and they had to stop all the holes.  Did I mention they had a blast?  I think it's funny when cadets do things and the instructors say, "You guys did this better than most of the guys sent here for training..."

[MIKE]

Topic?