Leadership Badge

[SarDragon]

This patch seems to have been used by Civil Air Patrol over 20 years ago...

...But sorry, no solid details on it.

I never saw it used anywhere I was ever a member, nor does it appear in any of my copies of CAPM 39-1, so let's take it back before 1964, or call it a local mod subject to a supplement.

[mikeylikey]

^ That looks like something produced for maybe an Encampment??

[RiverAux]

Temporary badges for encampment make some sense as everyone is working under a brand new command structure and it helps ensure everyone knows who is doing what.  But for regular everyday use I don't think so. 

[alamrcn]

I never saw it used anywhere I was ever a member, nor does it appear in any of my copies of CAPM 39-1, so let's take it back before 1964, or call it a local mod subject to a supplement.

Ya, could be any or all of the above. I've seen the thing three times now, not including appearances on eBay. And every time it has been in with a group of CAP stuff.

Lee Ragan noted something similar in his 1986 insignia catalog for Squadron Commanders, but don't know if this is realted.

-Ace

[DNall]

This isn't the Army, we don't have leadership badges/indicators. Only the CC badge (and cord for C/CC in this wg), nothing else is appropriate.

[nesagsar]

Your cadet commander should be the squadron representative to the wing CAC anyway and is thus eligible for the cord and ribbon.

[DNall]

Your cadet commander should be the squadron representative to the wing CAC anyway and is thus eligible for the cord and ribbon.

uhh, no. Nothing says you have to have a C/CC at all. If you do, nothing says they have to be the CAC rep. CAC is more like a 1Sgt system to advocate for cadets around the side of the adult chain of command. You put a person there that can make the meetings & is capable of that advocacy. We try to make sure our C/CC or 1Sgt are either the primary or alt rep, but we're not going to be tied down if they can't do it. Also, my wing has Gps, big ones. Our reps are to the Gp level, the Gps then have A rep each to the Wg level.

[Hawk200]

This isn't the Army, we don't have leadership badges/indicators. Only the CC badge (and cord for C/CC in this wg), nothing else is appropriate.

The Army doesn't have leadership badges. About the only soldier you'll see in a unit that has something specific is the First Sergeant. Above that level, a Command Sergeant Major. No one else has any real kind of "indicator".

[DNall]

This isn't the Army, we don't have leadership badges/indicators. Only the CC badge (and cord for C/CC in this wg), nothing else is appropriate.

The Army doesn't have leadership badges. About the only soldier you'll see in a unit that has something specific is the First Sergeant. Above that level, a Command Sergeant Major. No one else has any real kind of "indicator".

i was talking about (670-1 Ch28) badge background trimming & leadership loops. The AF doesn't do such things, and I don't think they are in any way necessary within either CAP or AF, or the Army either for that matter.

[nesagsar]

My group had a huge terrirtory but only 2 squadrons in it. We figured it wouldnt be nescessary to have group level CAC's.

[SarDragon]

My group had a huge terrirtory but only 2 squadrons in it. We figured it wouldnt be nescessary to have group level CAC's.

From looking at your pic, it looks like you are from ILWG. I just looked here, and don't see any groups with just two squadrons in them. That page appears to be fairly up-to-date, since I recognize a name or two in specific positions.

[nesagsar]

I havent been a member of CAP since 2005. Some of the groups have been rearranged since then I think.

[Hawk200]

This isn't the Army, we don't have leadership badges/indicators. Only the CC badge (and cord for C/CC in this wg), nothing else is appropriate.

The Army doesn't have leadership badges. About the only soldier you'll see in a unit that has something specific is the First Sergeant. Above that level, a Command Sergeant Major. No one else has any real kind of "indicator".

i was talking about (670-1 Ch28) badge background trimming & leadership loops. The AF doesn't do such things, and I don't think they are in any way necessary within either CAP or AF, or the Army either for that matter.

Background trimming has nothing to do with leadership positions. Those items are "authorized for organizations designated (by structure, equipment, and  mission) "Airborne" or "Air Assault" by HQDA. Qualified personnel are authorized to wear the background trimming with the Parachutist or Air Assault badge."

Leadership loops do indicate leadership position, but they are rarely worn (most likely because current uniforms don't really accommodate the wear.) Even in my earliest time in the Army Guard back in the late '90's, early 00's, I've never seen them worn. That includes active duty periods, TDY's, and AT's, all time periods on Active Army installations.

When drawing parallels to the military, we need to consider the reality of what the military is doing. Making a statement of "This isn't the Army" isn't really appropriate when the practice referenced isn't really all that common.

When it comes to the OP's suggestions, let's just make the statement "It's not necessary or appropriate", and avoid drawing references to the other branch practices that aren't practical anyway. I don't know about others, but from my viewpoint, the OP is more about the bling than they are about any practical use. I think the OP believes that a badge will provide more authority or credibility that it actually will.

[DNall]

Well that's kind of my point actually. People look at what they THINK other services are doing & make an inference that CAP needs to do that because it results in more self-important crap (on the uniform or otherwise). When what we should be doing is following the AF example moderately adapted to our unique situation. Hence, there is no need for anything like a leadership designator.

[Gunner C]

Exhibit A:

We had them in our squadron supply back in the late 60's.  We tried them out but, as someone pointed out, the prongs broke off easily.  IIRC, they were worn on the left epaulet. There weren't any for cadet officer positions - we wore shoulder boards.  Also, they weren't useable on the 1505 summer uniforms (nothing to put them on - no epaulet). No one was particularly enamored of them back then - can't see them being brought back.  They just weren't practicle.

[Pylon]

My group had a huge terrirtory but only 2 squadrons in it. We figured it wouldnt be nescessary to have group level CAC's.

Isn't minimum levels for Group status 5 squadrons? 

Perhaps he meant only 2 squadrons with cadets?

[nesagsar]

My group had a huge terrirtory but only 2 squadrons in it. We figured it wouldnt be nescessary to have group level CAC's.

Isn't minimum levels for Group status 5 squadrons? 

Perhaps he meant only 2 squadrons with cadets?

No, just two squadrons. Both were composite squadrons. That probably explains why they rearranged them though.

[CAPSGT]

Groups can have fewer than 5 squadrons if for example geography makes it necessary.  It's not a hard fast rule, just a strong suggestion.

For example, I was a group commander over 3 squadrons.  The one squadron was in the group for some odd political reasons and just never got moved.  The other two were separated by the chesapeake bay from the rest of the wing.  Interesting fact: one of the squadron commanders that worked for me back then is now a member of the NEC.

[afgeo4]

What we did in Basic is I think something that can be done at encampment if needed. Blue nametags that are worn on blue shirts with "Dorm Chief" and "Element Leader" were issued and worn above existing name tags. They were also worn above nametape on BDU's. Centered, about 1/2 inch above tape. It wasn't pretty, but it did the job.

[nesagsar]

Our advanced training squadron wore armbands with Star Trek TOS style rank braid on it for flight sergeant and flight commander.