Eliminate ugly and expensive Cadet Officer shoulder boards

[ZigZag911]

Agreed...the darn things looked ridiculous WIWAC, and have not improved with age!

[Cadet Tillett]

I agree that the shoulderboards do look a little cheesy, but I don't think that substituting epaulets would be a satisfactory solution.  I would personally like a cheaper, simpler shoulderboard design.
Comments?

[dogboy]

I wrote:

"I was one of the first to wear them in 1965 (if I remember correctly, they were worn on the khaki shirt as well) and they were as weird and silly then as they are now."

The Shade 1 khakis were largely gone and the 505s were being phased out.  The shoulder boards were worn on the 505/1505 shirts and were attached with little snaps that were a pain to sew on, this was pre velcro.

Thankfully, I have apparently successfully repressed this part.

[Grumpy]

Let them wear a blue sleeve with their cadet rank on it (like our gray ones).  Cost is about $6.00 as opposed to $29.00.  They buy the first one and swap at the squadron as they progress.

If they want to go "formal" like a cadet form of Mess Dress, they use the boards on the service coats.
You don't have to redesign anything and you get the cost down like right now.

[mikeylikey]

Just pin the rank on the coat like JROTC, or if the coat has epaulets, then on the epaulet.  Simple.....right?

[SJFedor]

Just pin the rank on the coat like JROTC, or if the coat has epaulets, then on the epaulet.  Simple.....right?

I actually almost recommended just doing the metal grade on the epaulets, but then I remembered that some cadets have the enlisted jacket w/ no epaulets, which leaves them up the creek.

They're expensive as anything, but, personally, I liked my boards.

[Robert Hartigan]

Okay interesting topic , but let me set this one on fast forward>>

2008: cadet officer boards are an issue for the National Board.
The issue is voted down and the boards stay because there is a ready supply that needs to be worked through.
2009: Issue revisited and a phase out date is established three years from then.

2012: cadet officer boards are phased out.

2025: cadet officer boards are re-introduced in an effort to get back to a heritage uniform and the National Cadet Advisory Council thinks they look cool! New price $99. New old stock is used until a suitable vendor can be contracted.

2025: CAP membership sharply declines because all your heads explode when you realized I was right!

[Grumpy]

Grrrrrr 

[Major Carrales]

Okay interesting topic , but let me set this one on fast forward>>

2008: cadet officer boards are an issue for the National Board.
The issue is voted down and the boards stay because there is a ready supply that needs to be worked through.
2009: Issue revisited and a phase out date is established three years from then.

2012: cadet officer boards are phased out.

2025: cadet officer boards are re-introduced in an effort to get back to a heritage uniform and the National Cadet Advisory Council thinks they look cool! New price $99. New old stock is used until a suitable vendor can be contracted.

2025: CAP membership sharply declines because all your heads explode when you realized I was right!

Truer words have never been spoken.  It should remain as it is, there is no need wasting time discussing such ancillary issues as this at any CAP National Level.  Since it represents one of the ad nauseum uniform items to which many here see as "wastes of time and energy" or as a otherwise distractor.

As for the price of them, chalk it up to a sacrifice for being a cadet officer.  If I am not mistaken, even in the military persons of a certain rank are required to own certain uniform items...sabres, service caps, dress uniforms etc.

I see it as one of those "it  comes with the office deals."

There are some that would say that making such a sacrifice is necessary, it shows that one is committed to their position.  I have been criticized in the past because I have a practice of purchasing cadets their name tags with my own personal funds.  The idea is that they must "invest" in the system and my doing so is wrong.  I purchase them said items as twofold, 1) new cadets get their stuff at the same time, 2) I'm a freakin' nice guy and it's my money to do with as I see fit.

Now, for other items (such as cadet officer shoulder boards, boots, shoes and the like) I subscribe to the idea of investing.  If one makes the purchase of these types of items it's a lot harder for parents to merely allow their children to leave willy-nilly.

[Grumpy]

Good thought.  Now, since we will never solve this "problem", can we close it?

[Major Carrales]

Good thought.  Now, since we will never solve this "problem", can we close it?

Agreed!

[ZigZag911]

We should leave this to the National CAC, if they see it as an issue at all.

[BillB]

With all the cadet offiers dropping from the program or turning senior, why don't Squadrons buy their shoulkder boards? I see them on eBay for $10. There must be thousands of shoulder baords in closets gathering lint and dust. Several times (I can remember at least three times) over the past, I can remember dropping the shoulder baods brought to the Ntional CAC and the decision was to retain them

[Grumpy]

Not on the subject; but I was wondering.  I notice on a lot of signatures for these blogs, that say So and So, Gil Robb Wilson #84, Gil Rogg Wilson #201 for the same person.

What do you do, earn the same award over and over again?

Thanks,

Brian Billing
Cadet COP, 1963 (no number, just the year)

[Cecil DP]

There were two Gill Robb Wilson Awards,. Until 1983 it was the second highest award, after the National Commander's Citation, which was abolished. So the individual who has two numbers earned the award under two different criteria

[Pylon]

Truer words have never been spoken.  It should remain as it is, there is no need wasting time discussing such ancillary issues as this at any CAP National Level.

It's not worth discussing it because you're not a cadet forced to shell out $40 for a set of service coat rank insignia, but it's okay to beat to death discussions on tweaking, modifying, and downright recreating senior member uniforms?

Since it represents one of the ad nauseum uniform items to which many here see as "wastes of time and energy" or as a otherwise distractor.

Yeah, we discuss uniform items over and over here.  But there's a difference here.  Almost all of the senior member uniform threads (which we've all participated in, you and me included Joe) have been arguments to create a more aesthetic uniform.  Maybe you like your senior member uniform with blue epaulets, or without the silver sleeve braid, or with a darker color of nametapes, or with a different style badge... ALL of those threads are about ideas for the sake of making the uniforms look better in somebody's opinion.


Here the discussion is bringing up the Cadet Officer shoulder boards because they're unbelievably expensive (which on its own merits the discussion), and they're difficult to use, and they're aesthetically unpleasant to many.  So don't dismiss the thread simply because you believe it to be another thread on just aesthetics.

I have cadets who can't afford $40 for training, or field equipment, or encampment let alone one set of rank insignia.

As for the price of them, chalk it up to a sacrifice for being a cadet officer.  If I am not mistaken, even in the military persons of a certain rank are required to own certain uniform items...sabres, service caps, dress uniforms etc.

Excuse me?  I think you forget we're talking about cadets here.  Not senior members with jobs.

Don't even bring into the discussion military officers buying most of their uniforms out of pocket.  They get paid to be in their organization.  They traditionally pay for their own uniform items because they traditionally get paid more than enlisted, who get their uniforms issued to them or get allowances to cover it.  See the difference?   They're expected to pay because they get paid well.

A cadet officer may not even be old enough to hold a job in his or her state.   So what's chalking it up to being a cadet officer mean?  "Hey cadet, you promoted, congratulations!  You need to buy about $12 - $15 minimum in insignia just to get your basic blues shirt and BDUs up to snuff, and you'll also need to get a new set of books... - let's add $40 on to that for one single set of rank insignia, simply because senior members don't find it worth our time to discuss it amidst our discussions of demanding blue epaulets for ourselves and arguing over nametape colors."


Say you don't agree with changing it, but just don't dismiss it as a frivilous issue because people are looking to change how pretty their uniform is.  When I was a cadet, the boards cost $17 a set (plus the cost of metal pin on rank to be added to it).  Now that the cost has consistently increased (more so than just about any other piece of insignia I can think of) and total cost nears $40 (without counting in the $7 shipping from Vanguard), yes, I think it warrants discussion.




My opinion?  Find a way to make the same epaulets they already use on their blues shirts work. 

Reason #1:  No new products need to be created.
Reason #2:  Cadet officers already get these for their blues shirts.  Consolidating is a good thing.
Reason #3:  Cost is much more reasonable.
Reason #4:  AFROTC wears blue epaulets on their service dress and it looks fine. 

Con #1: Yes, I get the enlisted jackets don't have epaulets.  That's why I said we'd need to find a way to make it work.  At least this suggestion has a lot fewer cons to it than the current system.

[Eagle400]

The CAP cadet shoulder boards are gawdy, bulky, and unnecessary for anything other than a mess dress uniform.  And since CAP cadets aren't allowed to wear the mess dress, the shoulder boards must go.  This is coming from someone who used to wear them. 

Economically and professionally, blue epaulets on the service dress coat is the best way to go.  And I'm not buying all this whining about epaulets not being compatible with the enlisted service dress coat.  Got a problem with the epaulets not working with the enlisted service dress coat?  Buy an officer coat in the first place so you won't have to worry about the problem!  If I had my way, the enlisted service dress coat wouldn't be authorized for CAP cadets. 

By the way, the epaulets worn by AFROTC cadets are black, not blue. 

[MIKE]

And now I will present the following:  Cadets are not required to posses service dress/semi-formal, therefore they are not required to purchase shoulder boards which are only worn on the aforementioned uniform.  Don't like them or don't want to to shell out the coin for 'em... wear your short sleeved shirt/blouse and shoulder marks.

[mikeylikey]

^  Wow....that totally eluded all of us.  Thanks Mike.  I can't believe no one brought that up yet.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

[Pylon]

^  Wow....that totally eluded all of us.  Thanks Mike.  I can't believe no one brought that up yet.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

I guess then we can consider it "problem solved" for any and all future CAP senior member uniform issues, ideas, changes, or problems since a senior member can just choose to wear a different combination or uniform?

Got it.