CAP Senior NCO Insignia

[thefischNX01]

My unit has a new guy who wants to become a Senior NCO.  He's submitting the proper paperwork IAW CAPR 35-5 Para. F. 

However, we're not sure what kind of insignia (bright or subdued) he would wear on the BDUs.  CAPM 39-1 states that

Senior Member NCOs and Airmen wear the 3-, 3 1/2-, or 4- inch (women) or 4-inch (men) sleeve chevrons centered halfway between shoulder seam and elbow...

I have seen only one CAP NCO in BDUs.  He wore the bright blues version of the insignia.  Anyone know anything else? 

[DeputyDog]

Senior Member NCOs wear the blue and white grade insignia on the BDUs and the Field Uniforms.

[thefischNX01]

That's what I thought.  Thanks.

[hatentx]

Okay I was looking into joining CAP and am reading about the NCO rank.  I am Active Duty Army and an e-4.  Would I wear my Corpral rank or my SGT once promoted on the CAP uniform or would I wear the Airforce e-5 rank?  If I am to wear the CPL what rank would i wear being that the AirForce no longer has Buck Sergants?

[Pylon]

Okay I was looking into joining CAP and am reading about the NCO rank.  I am Active Duty Army and an e-4.  Would I wear my Corpral rank or my SGT once promoted on the CAP uniform or would I wear the Airforce e-5 rank?  If I am to wear the CPL what rank would i wear being that the AirForce no longer has Buck Sergants?

Civil Air Patrol's NCO corps has established grades from Sgt through to CMSgt, to recognize NCO's from E-4 through E-9.  Since some services do have E-4 NCOs, such as yourself, you could become a CAP Sgt, and you would wear the AF three-stripe insignia.

[PaulR]

I never knew that these existed.  When did the CAP Bring back the Senior Member NCO rankings?  Can someone post an example of this insignia?

Thanks
Paul

[Hawk200]

I never knew that these existed.  When did the CAP Bring back the Senior Member NCO rankings?  Can someone post an example of this insignia?

Thanks
Paul

They're just standard Air Force NCO stripes, nothing different about them. And those ranks are only authorized for those having been military NCO's. CAP doesn't have its own program for NCO's at present.

[Eclipse]

Correct, and has been noted ad nauseum here and other places, there is no progression or promotion within CAP for NCO's.

If they progress within whatever service they are in, they can wear the new grade within CAP, (after the proper paperwork has been updated).

If this is a new member, and yo are unaware of the procedure and issue on this, I would suggest doing some searches for the topic here.  There are several arguments for and against not accepting CAP officer appointments.

[SeattleSarge]

My unit has a new guy who wants to become a Senior NCO.  He's submitting the proper paperwork IAW CAPR 35-5 Para. F. 

However, we're not sure what kind of insignia (bright or subdued) he would wear on the BDUs.  CAPM 39-1 states that

Senior Member NCOs and Airmen wear the 3-, 3 1/2-, or 4- inch (women) or 4-inch (men) sleeve chevrons centered halfway between shoulder seam and elbow...

I have seen only one CAP NCO in BDUs.  He wore the bright blues version of the insignia.  Anyone know anything else? 

Have your guy PM me or email to N7FTX@hotmail.com and I'll square him away.

-SeattleSarge

[SDF_Specialist]

I recently learned the if a CAP member chooses to become a CAP NCO, the same insignia that AF wears on the Blues goes on CAP BDUs with the appropriate CAP items as well.

[hatentx]

What reason would you not except a CAP Officer rank? other thn being a hooah about being an NCO

[SDF_Specialist]

Being a hooah about being an NCO

[PaulR]

What reason would you not except a CAP Officer rank? other thn being a hooah about being an NCO

Because NCOs are the backbone of the military.  There is a lot of pride being associated with being one.  These ranks are earned with much sweat and heart ache. 

NCOs are often held in higher regard by the troops than the highest ranking beaurcrat... uhmmm I mean officers. 

"Dont call me sir, I work for a living"

[Eclipse]

Generally NCOs, especially the higher up you go, come about their authority and grade "organically", vs the officer grades which can be achieved via outside professional development (college, academy, etc.).

As indicated, enlisted personnel "work for a living", and enjoy great prestige within the RealMilitary®.  For the most part they know the most about their jobs and their equipment, with officers being more generalist / managers (wild generalization, I know).

There is also a caste system within the military where privileges and authority is different between the groups.  Officers usually earn more, may be better (scholastically) educated, and more "polished" than NCOs, and certainly the work and tasking are divided along these lines.

The NCO's primary role is the health and welfare of "the men" - officers, by design, have to make macro decisions which may send men to their deaths, and so they are generally discouraged from fraternization with the rank and file to lessen the burden and make these decisions "easier".

This dichotomy does not exist within CAP, nor should it.  The majority of CAP members wear 10+ hats, and do whatever it takes (thus the aghast stares from Guardsmen in Mississippi, watching officers unload trucks).  To reinstitute the NCO grades at the same level as the RealMilitary®, especially considering the attitudes of some of the members that is being discussed in other threads, would likely cost us the very members we are seeking to retain.

An NCO / Officer division would not work with volunteers, and only foster animosity.

As it exists today, the allowance for members to reject officer appointment in favor of wearing their RealMilitary® NCO grade is out of respect for their service.

[ddelaney103]

What reason would you not except a CAP Officer rank? other thn being a hooah about being an NCO

The original idea was that long term enlisted weren't interested in "playing officer" after a long NCO career.  It gave them something they wanted and CAP got their expertise: a win all the way around.

Now, there might be other reasons.  One is cost: if I was a CAP NCO, I could buy some CAP collar brass for my service dress and I'd be good to go.  An extra BDU shirt and my work uniform would be covered as well.

[Hawk200]

As it exists today, the allowance for members to reject officer appointment in favor of wearing their RealMilitary® NCO grade is out of respect for their service.

Seems the best way to put it. Too bad some people don't think they're worth that respect.

[Stonewall]

You know, I got an idea from Dan there.  If I convert to NCOness in CAP, I can kill 2 birds with 1 stone by having one mess dress uniform for the AF and CAP.

Or, as an NCO/Enlisted guy, I can wear the optional formal uniform, right?  The white shirt and bowtie with service dress?

I'm cool with being a Lt Col, but I'll save money by being an NCO.

[ddelaney103]

As it exists today, the allowance for members to reject officer appointment in favor of wearing their RealMilitary® NCO grade is out of respect for their service.

Seems the best way to put it. Too bad some people don't think they're worth that respect.

Doesn't it seem a little ironic that we defend NCO grade against any perceived sullying, but we treat officer grade like something you get free in a box of OODA Loops?

[ddelaney103]

"Don't call me sir, I work for a living"

I've always hated that phrase - officers do a lot of heavy lifting, just not involving boxes off of trucks.  It's also uncalled for in the AF, as calling anyone Sir/Ma'am is perfectly OK.

If I did want a retort for that sort of thing, I'd reply, "Don't call me Sir - Do I look like I'm made of money?"

[Hawk200]

As it exists today, the allowance for members to reject officer appointment in favor of wearing their RealMilitary® NCO grade is out of respect for their service.

Seems the best way to put it. Too bad some people don't think they're worth that respect.

Doesn't it seem a little ironic that we defend NCO grade against any perceived sullying, but we treat officer grade like something you get free in a box of OODA Loops?

Point taken. We could stand to toughen up some of our officer training, and limit some of the more advanced promotions. You con't go straight to NCO grades going into any branch of service, but officer grades can be achieved easily with having certain background and training.

How? Don't know exactly, but I'm sure people here have some ideas.