Patch suppliers

[Walkman]

I just finished designing a new sqdr'n patch/logo. I'm looking for referrals to patch companies. We're a bit low on cash, so price is a big factor.

Thanks All.

[MidwaySix]

Note that if your patch design includes any CAP specific (hence copyrighted) logos, such as the prop and triangle, you're required to have the patch produced by Vanguard, or get a release letter from Vanguard allowing another vendor to do the job.

s/v

Midway Six

CAPblog
Always Vigilant - Never Boring.
http://capblog.typepad.com/

[jimmydeanno]

^he he...

[Pylon]

Note that if your patch design includes any CAP specific (hence copyrighted) logos, such as the prop and triangle, you're required to have the patch produced by Vanguard, or get a release letter from Vanguard allowing another another vendor to do the job.

s/v

Midway Six

CAPblog
Always Vigilant - Never Boring.
http://capblog.typepad.com/

Thanks for the legal tip, Midway!  A reminder that, depending on your interpretation, even just the words "Civil Air Patrol" appearing on your patch may require Vanguard approval.

Also note that if your artwork uses USAF or other DoD/U.S. federal heraldry or symbols, and nothing CAP-specific, it doesn't require Vanguard approval.  Works of the federal government are uncopyrightable and can be used for non-commercial means, with a few exceptions for use of logos/names (like the CIA seal or the initials "FBI", etc.).

[Walkman]

Thanks for the legal tip, Midway!  A reminder that, depending on your interpretation, even just the words "Civil Air Patrol" appearing on your patch may require Vanguard approval.

Waitaminit!

Are you guys just havin' fun with the new guy? I can't tell if I should chuckle or groan...

[MidwaySix]

Are you guys just havin' fun with the new guy?

I wish I was kidding. I'm being totally serious.

In an effort to help everyone skip the back and forth w/ NHQ... you can submit the request to:

Charles Bostwick
Director of Elite Services
Vanguard Industries

PM me if you need his contact info.

Of course, he'll ask for a compelling reason why Vanguard can't take care of you? He's not unreasonable.

Good Luck,

M6

[Pylon]

Of course, he'll ask for a compelling reason why Vanguard can't take care of you? He's not unreasonable.

Hint:  While I'm sure Vanguard's product quality on the patches is great, you may be taken for a ride on the price.

Write up the specifications for your order (how many patches, the size, number of different colors of thread, etc.) and send it along with the artwork to 3 or 4 different patch vendors that you'd trust (you can always ask them to send you a few sample patches).  Ask each of them to submit a quote to you within 7 business days.

If Vanguard's price is higher than another vendor you're comfortable going with, your "compelling reason" that Vanguard can't take care of you is: price.  It shouldn't take much explanation that most squadrons have tight budgets and small coffers.

[Walkman]

I wish I was kidding. I'm being totally serious.

Hmmm....

The original design didn't have any CAP insignia, but the CC asked to see if I could add the tri-prop or something. That worked out fine, design-wise, but if I'm going to have to jump through hoops, maybe I'll leave it out.

Write up the specifications for your order (how many patches, the size, number of different colors of thread, etc.) and send it along with the artwork to 3 or 4 different patch vendors that you'd trust (you can always ask them to send you a few sample patches).  Ask each of them to submit a quote to you within 7 business days.

That's why I started this thread, I've never made a patch before and wanted to know who's done a good job in the past. I've googled a bit, but nothing replaces a good satisfied customer.

[Walkman]

I just looked on Vanguard's site, can't find a link about making patches...

[Pylon]

That's why I started this thread, I've never made a patch before and wanted to know who's done a good job in the past. I've googled a bit, but nothing replaces a good satisfied customer.

Vanguard makes patches, but it may not be on their website; the Vanguard website isn't known for winning awards or being particularly informative. 

The last squadron I was in got squadron patches made by The Hock and they turned out looking pretty good.

Best bet:  Search online for custom military patch makers, and request a couple patch samples.  Any reputable vendor will gladly pop a few samples of past embroidered patches they've made for free.  If you like the quality and material, add them to the list of people you'll send your Request for Quote to.

[alamrcn]

I just looked on Vanguard's site, can't find a link about making patches...

Hmmm... Since they are a website-only company, and don't offer the service on their website, why are we supposed to track down the things they do and don't do. Do we also have to have Vanguard make our business cards, or our plaques and trophies too?

Is there now a regulation or letter to the general membership saying that Vanguard is the "Neo" of manufacturing Civil Air Patrol uniform items, paraphanillia, novelties, and souveneirs? We gossip here about the C&D letters sent by National to the suppliers, but where are OUR published orders to not use anyone but Vanguard? I know of the "copyright" regs, but have they been changed to list

I personnaly would NOT use Vanguard - wouldn't even give them the opportunity to bid - on any CAP items outside of the regular jiggy-jack authorized by Nat HQ.

Sorry about my snotty attitude, but someone is trying to take advantage of us and it ticks me off.

-Ace

[jimmydeanno]

Vanguard is not a web-site only company.  If you go to their location in Norfolk, VA they have a showroom set up and you can buy things off the shelf.  They even have a cash register set up.

If you're in the showroom, you see their custom engraving services and patch services.

[Lancer]

Patch manufacturing aside, what is the process for design approval with CAP? Doesn't it need to at least get signed off on by your wing commander?

[IceNine]

Your best option is to look locally.

When I had ours made I had bids from Several internet companies and they were all bidding somewhere around 3.5 - 4 bucks a patch.

I went to a local embroidery shop, got GREAT quality and they did them for 1.75 a patch.  Plus there is the added benefit of being able to pick them up if you're in a hurry.  And a while ago I ran out (wasn't watching the supply) and needed 4 right away, they hammered those out for me, I picked them up and they worked on the rest of the order later.

Just personal experience. 

Also, I believe its required that your wing CC approve the patch?  Anyone know where this is addressed?

[alamrcn]

If you go into their West-coast showroom and ask for CAP stuff, do they have you fly over to their East-coast showroom?

I'm just kidding.

The ol' CAP Bookstore didn't have a showroom - or storefront for that matter - but they would take you into the bowels of their stock room and let you root through the tubs-o-insignia. I hear the same if you visit Tom in Michigan.

-Ace

[alamrcn]

When I had ours made I had bids from Several internet companies and they were all bidding somewhere around 3.5 - 4 bucks a patch.

I would guess you were looking to produce a small quantity? Of the three [national/international] manuafacturers I've used, all my orders have been at least 200 pieces and no more than $3 a piece. This is with a mixture of sizes, embroidery percentage, number of standard colors, type of edge, even heat-seal backing.

And a while ago I ran out (wasn't watching the supply) and needed 4 right away, they hammered those out for me, I picked them up and they worked on the rest of the order later.

That WOULD be a tremendus advantage, and allthough not knowning the quality of thier product, $1.75 a piece is pretty decent, especially without having to send the order to China. You've got a great thing going over there!

Also, I believe its required that your wing CC approve the patch?  Anyone know where this is addressed?

It's in 39-1 on page 112 (Table 6-4, Item 10). However, many wings have extra requirements. Either well documented like New Jersey Wing:
http://www.incountry.us/cappatches/library/39-1sup_nj061101.pdf
or undocumented like Minnesota Wing, which requires a written description of the patch design to accompany a full color drawing.

-Ace

[Walkman]

Patch manufacturing aside, what is the process for design approval with CAP? Doesn't it need to at least get signed off on by your wing commander?

AFAIK, that's how it works. In that process right now.

[stillamarine]

slight derail:

39-1 only gives instruction on wearing on BDUs or BBDUs. Is it possible to wear a Unit Patch on a Flightsuit?

Grazie

[Eclipse]

slight derail:

39-1 only gives instruction on wearing on BDUs or BBDUs. Is it possible to wear a Unit Patch on a Flightsuit?

Grazie

No - there is guidance, someone will cite, I had to look it up myself recently - you are only allowed to wear, Wing, Region, one of the approved National Activities, or stuff like Proficient Pilot, Stan Eval, etc.

[Hawk200]

slight derail:

39-1 only gives instruction on wearing on BDUs or BBDUs. Is it possible to wear a Unit Patch on a Flightsuit?

Grazie

I always did. Personally, I always felt you should wear the unit patch of where you were assigned, be it squadron, group or wing. It always seemed rather generic when everyone had on a wing patch. Units are unique, let their accoutrements show it.