Reverse Flag

[DKruse]

First off, I thought long and hard about putting this thread up.  I know there are several places on this forum that talk about the reverse flag on the (B)BDUs and I know I risk beating a dead horse.  However, I didn't find anyone's thought about a specific issue that I have with the reverse flag.

I pulled my BDU shirt out of the closet last night to put the reverse flag on it.  I hadn't worn the BDUs in quite a while, but there was a possibility I was going to need them soon.  As I was looking at the reverse flag patch, I thought about the following for probably the hundredth time:

Why are we wearing the reverse flag?  I know the stars should be forward, but why couldn't we move the left shoulder patch to the right shoulder and wear a regular flag on the left shoulder?

I have no problems with wearing the flag on any uniform.  But I never have liked the looks of the reversed flag.  If we wore a regular flag on the left shoulder, we'd match the scheme of the flight suit/utility uniform.

I know I'm beating a dead horse, but I welcome comments/criticisms.

[Pylon]

Reasons include:

The U.S. Army wears them that way; doesn't look odd to them apparently.

Left shoulder at the time still bore the mandatory wing patch -- the same location that the wing patch had occupied for many, many years.  The other shoulder was open, unless you wore one of the optional special patches for NCSAs, certain qualifications, etc.  (Now, of course, wing patches are optional on the field uniforms too).

There has been a recent history of poorly-thought-out uniform changes and creations rolled out hastily. 

Does it matter which shoulder it's on?  I would cringe at the thought of recommending any more uniform changes for a while. 

[CAP006]

Ya man. You are making alot of sense. I actually thought the same thing when I sewed on my flag last year but didn't argue cause it was issued by the military (AFA). So go ahead and beat on a dead horse cause we cant change it. Can we?

[afgeo4]

As Pylon has previously said, the left shoulder was taken up by the mandatory wing patch at the time. To avoid having to remove one patch and then sew on the one removed PLUS the flag, they authorized the reverse patch, which is easily available because the U.S. Army wears it.

They wanted a flag. The easiest place to put it was the right shoulder. Patches for right shoulder were easily available.

Any other questions?

[JC004]

As Pylon has previously said, the left shoulder was taken up by the mandatory wing patch at the time. To avoid having to remove one patch and then sew on the one removed PLUS the flag, they authorized the reverse patch, which is easily available because the U.S. Army wears it.

They wanted a flag. The easiest place to put it was the right shoulder. Patches for right shoulder were easily available.

Any other questions?

Less easily available without Velcro now   

[afgeo4]

As Pylon has previously said, the left shoulder was taken up by the mandatory wing patch at the time. To avoid having to remove one patch and then sew on the one removed PLUS the flag, they authorized the reverse patch, which is easily available because the U.S. Army wears it.

They wanted a flag. The easiest place to put it was the right shoulder. Patches for right shoulder were easily available.

Any other questions?

Less easily available without Velcro now   

Are you having trouble finding one outside of the place with name one shall not speak?

[MIKE]

Less easily available without Velcro now   

Linky

[JC004]

Less easily available without Velcro now   

Linky

I have some that I bought at Clothing Sales before they switched over to just carrying Velcro.  After it passed, I bought like half a box and sent them to people who were worthy.     I wanted to stock up on more last time I was at Clothing Sales, but no such luck.  Had the same results at Westover, Dix/McGuire, Dover, and Indiantown Gap.   

[RogueLeader]

The reason for having the reversed flag- stars to the right, is so that you look to be "moving forward."  If you have the regular flag- stars to the left, but on the right shoulder, it looks like you are going backward- as in retreat.  The Army decided that if it looks like you're retreating, it poses a negative PR Value (What would YOU think if your Army looked like it was going Backward when they are to be going FORWARD?). 

[mikeylikey]

Oh....I thought it was how John Wayne wore it in his movies.  My mistake.

[afgeo4]

The reason for having the reversed flag- stars to the right, is so that you look to be "moving forward."  If you have the regular flag- stars to the left, but on the right shoulder, it looks like you are going backward- as in retreat.  The Army decided that if it looks like you're retreating, it poses a negative PR Value (What would YOU think if your Army looked like it was going Backward when they are to be going FORWARD?). 

The flag doesn't always look like the stars are on the left. When the flag is carried on a pole and you look at it from its right, you'll see that the stars are on the upper right. That's exactly what's going on on the uniform. You're looking at the flag from its right, so the stars are on the upper right.

[Pylon]

The Army decided that if it looks like you're retreating, it poses a negative PR Value (What would YOU think if your Army looked like it was going Backward when they are to be going FORWARD?). 

The Army did not decide that, nor was "PR value" the reason for the decision.  It's a long standing rule on U.S. flag etiquette, as laid out in the U.S. Code.   The flag has been represented that way on moving objects (people, vehicles, aircraft) for much longer than the Army's been wearing the reverse flag patch.

[RogueLeader]

The Army decided that if it looks like you're retreating, it poses a negative PR Value (What would YOU think if your Army looked like it was going Backward when they are to be going FORWARD?). 

The Army did not decide that, nor was "PR value" the reason for the decision.  It's a long standing rule on U.S. flag etiquette, as laid out in the U.S. Code.   The flag has been represented that way on moving objects (people, vehicles, aircraft) for much longer than the Army's been wearing the reverse flag patch.

Then the USPS and many LE need to know that. . . .

[afgeo4]

The Army decided that if it looks like you're retreating, it poses a negative PR Value (What would YOU think if your Army looked like it was going Backward when they are to be going FORWARD?). 

The Army did not decide that, nor was "PR value" the reason for the decision.  It's a long standing rule on U.S. flag etiquette, as laid out in the U.S. Code.   The flag has been represented that way on moving objects (people, vehicles, aircraft) for much longer than the Army's been wearing the reverse flag patch.

Then the USPS and many LE need to know that. . . .

Proper flag display protocol is unfortunately unknown to many people, including ones who work for the government.

[Duke Dillio]

The reason for having the reversed flag- stars to the right, is so that you look to be "moving forward."  If you have the regular flag- stars to the left, but on the right shoulder, it looks like you are going backward- as in retreat.  The Army decided that if it looks like you're retreating, it poses a negative PR Value (What would YOU think if your Army looked like it was going Backward when they are to be going FORWARD?). 

I would say they looked like the Italian Army during WWII.  Oops, did I type that out loud?   

[Sgt. Savage]

Then the USPS and many LE need to know that. . . .

Flags don't fly in the doughnut shop

Sorry Flyingpig, I'll await my letter bomb. Just couldn't resist.

[RogueLeader]

Flags don't fly in the doughnut shop

They don't? With all that hot air?

[Pylon]

Then the USPS and many LE need to know that. . . .

Unfortunately, yes, there are tons of instances of the U.S. flag patch being worn inappropriately.  I've seen it on police, security guards, firemen and EMTs.  It's not an intentional disrespect of the U.S. flag, just an ignorance of the laws and flag etiquette by those who prescribe their uniforms.

Left shoulder/sleeve = "normal" flag. 
Right shoulder/sleeve = "reverse" flag.

[hatentx]

As explained to me being in the Army that the placement of the Flag on the right shoulder was the same for it being reversed.  It is in the regulation that the field of blue will move forward.  The posistion is the same.  While marching with the US Flag in a formation the Flag is the right most flag.  The most senior is to walk to the right as well all IAW Army FM 3-2.5.  I have never heard this from "real" channels bu this is what was explained as the resoning for the Army's choice of the placment

[SARMedTech]

Not for nothing, but we wear the stars forward flag on our khaki IMERT BDUs. IMERT has a long and convaluted history with the sea services including USPHS and USCG. The USCG Rescue Swimmers also wear the stars forward on their survival suits. 

Also, heres a cheap plug: IMERT is always recruiting and we dont just need medical types. We recruit commo, logistics, safety, WMD which has alot of fire fighters in it and we are also affiliated with DHS through the Illinois Terrorism Task Force. So if you are living in IL and looking for megawatt ways to help you countrymen (like going to Katrina) stop  on by IMERT.org and see what we have to offer. I am new to the game myself as a medical specialist and soon to start training in WMD. If I can offer any useful information, please drop me a PM. Also, as I have said in another posting, three uniform shirts and a uniform jacket as well as patches are provided at no cost and you get to wear your boonies if you love them (like I do).