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Picy3
Recruit

Posts: 9
Unit: PCR-WA-015

« on: November 23, 2017, 05:12:13 PM »

I just last week finished all i needed to do (tests and such) for my wright brothers award, now I was told that next week we would be doing review boards, I wasn't actually expecting to pass all the tests (drill and leadership mainly) so I didn't think I would actually make it on time for the review boards but I somehow passed it all, anyways I looked up a little bit of stuff they do as I knew nothing about them and saw that they ask questions and stuff, so I'm just wondering if some of the people who have done this could tell me what to expect or how I can be prepared for it because I would really like to promote in January, mainly what they will ask me maybe or past experiences of what they have done.
 :o ???

anyways any help would be nice, thank you!
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arajca
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2017, 07:04:20 PM »

The questions review boards ask vary greatly from unit to unit. The only constraints are:
1. No asking questions on the specific material you were just tested on.
2. Questions should be based on the CAPF 50.

Expect general leadership questions (how do you define a good leader, give an example of a good leader and why you think they are, etc), activity questions, what-are-your-goals type questions. For any more specifics, talk to cadets in your unit who have been through a review board.
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Picy3
Recruit

Posts: 9
Unit: PCR-WA-015

« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2017, 08:10:13 PM »

OK thank you, I'm not usually the best at those types of questions so i guess I'll have to work on that.. especially the "what are your goals in CAP" (which i have been asked before).. i mean really my goal i had set for cap was to try my hardest to promote and get to staff sergeant by January or February, so really i dont know yet what i want to do after this.. i just really enjoy doing CAP and seeing my friends, being able to learn along side them and being able to promote is a good example of why i like it, you work hard to promote and instead of getting nothing you get more responsibility and things you can do, you can help others and that is what i really enjoy.. so yeah.. anyways ill keep that in mind.

thanks and happy thankgiving!!
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2017, 08:33:10 PM »

As a suggestion, downplay about yourself and emphasize helping others. Or at least have the part about helping others have an equal weight.

Such as "helping others promote." "Helping others be better cadets," and the like.

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Picy3
Recruit

Posts: 9
Unit: PCR-WA-015

« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2017, 09:31:57 PM »

OK, sounds good.

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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2017, 09:50:02 PM »


Duplicate post, ignore / erased.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2017, 07:20:56 PM »

Review boards are unit SOP. It's up to your unit as to how to run them. Each unit will do them just a bit differently, and some units may be very drastic with how they run a board compared to their neighbor.

It is never supposed to be a trivia challenge. If you start getting asked trivia questions (What's the rank of....; Who is the National Commander?), challenge it. "Sir/Ma'am, I would like to express that a review board is not supposed to be trivia and recycle what I have been trained on. I think this time would be better served talking about my performance and character rather than CAP general knowledge. I have already passed the written test."

This isn't an academy entrance interview. It's a cadet promotion. It should be serious, focused, and worth your time to address your performance as a senior cadet NCO, cadet in general, and your future as a cadet officer. Do you understand the difference in the roles of NCOs and officers (not titles or jobs, but the differences in planning and how you correct systemic issues)? Where do you see yourself over the next 6 months? Where would you like your junior cadets to be in those 6 months? What ideas/ways do you have to get them there?

We end every interview with "Is there anything you would like to discuss?" Sometimes we get told no, sometimes we get "Actually, Sir, there is something I'd like to ask/bring up/address." Go for it. This is your open opportunity to show maturity in your ability to discuss matters you feel are important or ask questions you have, and it is a great time to show that you're serious in how you take your "cadet career."
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Picy3
Recruit

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Unit: PCR-WA-015

« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2017, 08:19:24 PM »

Review boards are unit SOP. It's up to your unit as to how to run them. Each unit will do them just a bit differently, and some units may be very drastic with how they run a board compared to their neighbor.

It is never supposed to be a trivia challenge. If you start getting asked trivia questions (What's the rank of....; Who is the National Commander?), challenge it. "Sir/Ma'am, I would like to express that a review board is not supposed to be trivia and recycle what I have been trained on. I think this time would be better served talking about my performance and character rather than CAP general knowledge. I have already passed the written test."

This isn't an academy entrance interview. It's a cadet promotion. It should be serious, focused, and worth your time to address your performance as a senior cadet NCO, cadet in general, and your future as a cadet officer. Do you understand the difference in the roles of NCOs and officers (not titles or jobs, but the differences in planning and how you correct systemic issues)? Where do you see yourself over the next 6 months? Where would you like your junior cadets to be in those 6 months? What ideas/ways do you have to get them there?

We end every interview with "Is there anything you would like to discuss?" Sometimes we get told no, sometimes we get "Actually, Sir, there is something I'd like to ask/bring up/address." Go for it. This is your open opportunity to show maturity in your ability to discuss matters you feel are important or ask questions you have, and it is a great time to show that you're serious in how you take your "cadet career."

Hmm.. ok sounds good, when I asked one of my friends (who is I think he's master sergeant last I checked..) what they do at our squadron or how hard it will be he simply said, "honestly its hard to fail these things so I wouldn't worry", so I feel better now though knowing its not too hard.. but thanks yes, I'll try to do that if they start bringing up something like that, I like the idea of having nothing asked about what I have learned, though I don't know much of where I want to be in 6 months.. guess ill have to think about that..

in 6 months ideally I would like to be master Sergeant, flight Sergeant, but that really depends. but really I have no plans other then to go to encampment in the summer  ;)
-where I would like to see my fellow junior cadets is where I'm at. say they are all Airmen, then in 6 months I would like to see them where I am at- in grade that is.

well anyways, one last day to prepare-
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Fubar
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« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2017, 10:22:29 PM »

"honestly its hard to fail these things so I wouldn't worry"

Seeing as a review board following a CAPF 50 (or whatever the form is now) is not a pass/fail endeavor, I'd say it's really hard to fail one.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2017, 11:21:38 AM »

Hard to fail? Yes. That's not a thing.
Possible to be sustained in grade? Yes. Absolutely.

That statement "It's hard to fail" gives some cadets a false confidence, and I've seen plenty of cadets who have poor performance and/or behavior that has been addressed who think they're going to walk out of a review board shining. It's not a pleasant experience when a review board turns into a counseling session.

"So, you've had some issues here that have been brought up before. How do you think it's going?"
"Well, I think I'm doing fine."
"Your record shows otherwise. Let's talk about some examples...So, can you give me some insight as to where you are with these corrections."
"Everything is fixed. I'm doing great now."
"You don't reply to emails. You horse around. You're not setting a good example for junior cadets, especially those several years younger than you."
"I'm sorry. I'll do better."
"Why do you think you're ready to promote and take on the extra responsibility and accountability?"
"Because I completed the tests."
"Okay, I'm not so sure you're ready. I can't recommend it."

A board should not be the first time an issue is addressed, nor should it be the first time positive feedback is provided. It should be specifically talking about your readiness for that specific grade you are boarding for and what future it opens up to you, both good and bad.

A cadet who has some issues understanding various roles (which can be taught) is more likely to promote than a cadet who cannot grasp his former mistakes and learn from them (which is a real struggle). Performance will drive readiness.
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Picy3
Recruit

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Unit: PCR-WA-015

« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2017, 05:07:55 PM »

Hard to fail? Yes. That's not a thing.
Possible to be sustained in grade? Yes. Absolutely.

That statement "It's hard to fail" gives some cadets a false confidence, and I've seen plenty of cadets who have poor performance and/or behavior that has been addressed who think they're going to walk out of a review board shining. It's not a pleasant experience when a review board turns into a counseling session.

"So, you've had some issues here that have been brought up before. How do you think it's going?"
"Well, I think I'm doing fine."
"Your record shows otherwise. Let's talk about some examples...So, can you give me some insight as to where you are with these corrections."
"Everything is fixed. I'm doing great now."
"You don't reply to emails. You horse around. You're not setting a good example for junior cadets, especially those several years younger than you."
"I'm sorry. I'll do better."
"Why do you think you're ready to promote and take on the extra responsibility and accountability?"
"Because I completed the tests."
"Okay, I'm not so sure you're ready. I can't recommend it."

A board should not be the first time an issue is addressed, nor should it be the first time positive feedback is provided. It should be specifically talking about your readiness for that specific grade you are boarding for and what future it opens up to you, both good and bad.

A cadet who has some issues understanding various roles (which can be taught) is more likely to promote than a cadet who cannot grasp his former mistakes and learn from them (which is a real struggle). Performance will drive readiness.


very well said.
yes, though i cant say i have problems with other cadets (i actually get along better with younger people), i did say i can have problems with my uniform, such as the boots or my hair- though the hair isn't something i can really control (my hair grows really fast so i have to have it cut a lot  ::) ), but other then that there's nothing much else.

when i did it last night they said i was good, liked my character and other then that.. there's nothing much else we talked about, the commander asked what i thought i could work on and i said my uniform and hair mainly, he said yeah to cut my hair the first week of Janurary before my promotion or he wouldn't promote me (though he was mostly joking) and uh he said congrats and to be here the first week of Janurary for my promotion  ;D ,so it went pretty good, so i guess i have a new goal to set o.O ..

who knows what it will be.. but thank you everyone for the advise and stuff, it really helped me.
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Fubar
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« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2017, 08:59:59 PM »

I thought a cadet's promotion was decided upon by the commander (after getting a recommendation from the promotion board) prior to any review board and CAPF 50 being administered. Otherwise how would the review board members know what to put on the CAPF 50 and what to discuss (both good and bad)?
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Cadetter
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« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2017, 12:17:18 AM »

As C/CC I usually prepare the CAPF 50, either with "Promotion Approved" ticked or blank (but not with "Retained in Grade" ticked) and email it to our commander a few days in advance (if he disagreed with my recommendation, he could say so, but it hasn't happened yet). We haven't yet held a review board for which the cadet's performance influenced final decision (although if a cadet was rude or arrogant, it would, and it was borderline when a SrA didn't report in properly), and we usually discuss leadership qualities and desired staff positions with cadets.
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Picy3
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Unit: PCR-WA-015

« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2017, 04:29:24 AM »

Yes when I reported, I said "reporting as requested" instead of ordered, so the commander made me do it again, which was good for me.

though I was a bit worried I would mess it up somehow because the last time I had reported was in basic 6 months ago so not much practice.. but *to my knowledge* I did it all correct in the end (though I felt pretty bad in the end when I forgot to salute him before leaving, I was just very happy to hear I passed everything, but he told me before I was gone, so I turned around apologized and saluted him.

I love our commander because he can be very nice and understanding.

oh but I have one question real quick, I was told that now that I have everything needed to promote and am just waiting time that I am technically a Sergeant, so would I sign as Sergeant now or do I have to be pinned and everything before I can do that? :o
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arajca
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« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2017, 10:42:47 AM »

You are not promoted to C/SSgt until your promotion shows up in Eservices. Therefore, you do not sign as C/SSgt until that time. Nor should you be wearing the grade insignia.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2017, 07:32:07 PM »

We hold the review board with the cadet. We go in after discussing it prior as to what talking points we have (generally in the preceding week or two). Someone generally fills out the Form 50 as the board is underway. We ask the cadet to leave. We discuss the interview. We bring the cadet back in and go over our talking points while he/she was out of the room. We then explain what our recommendation will be to the Commander. The Form 50 is provided once the Commander gives the okay.

We will not hold review boards well in advance of a cadet promoting, and they must have completed all of the required criteria before a board will be held. This is only for in-person reviews.

Only the Commander or someone delegated can/will check off "Promote," nor should they. As a Cadet Commander, you cannot approve a promotion. If your Commander is letting you decide for him/her, that really shouldn't be happening.



yes, though i cant say i have problems with other cadets (i actually get along better with younger people), i did say i can have problems with my uniform, such as the boots or my hair- though the hair isn't something i can really control (my hair grows really fast so i have to have it cut a lot  ::) ), but other then that there's nothing much else.


Don't make excuses.





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Cadetter
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« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2017, 03:13:50 PM »

We hold the review board with the cadet. We go in after discussing it prior as to what talking points we have (generally in the preceding week or two). Someone generally fills out the Form 50 as the board is underway. We ask the cadet to leave. We discuss the interview. We bring the cadet back in and go over our talking points while he/she was out of the room. We then explain what our recommendation will be to the Commander. The Form 50 is provided once the Commander gives the okay.

We will not hold review boards well in advance of a cadet promoting, and they must have completed all of the required criteria before a board will be held. This is only for in-person reviews.

Only the Commander or someone delegated can/will check off "Promote," nor should they. As a Cadet Commander, you cannot approve a promotion. If your Commander is letting you decide for him/her, that really shouldn't be happening.

Only the Commander can approve the promotion; what I check on the Form 50 is a recommendation that would be changed if he disagrees. Not sure where the issue is - I said in my previous post that it's a recommendation.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2017, 05:42:17 PM »

Only the Commander can approve the promotion; what I check on the Form 50 is a recommendation that would be changed if he disagrees. Not sure where the issue is - I said in my previous post that it's a recommendation.

As the regs currently sit.  That is outside your lane. 
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Cadetter
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« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2017, 08:27:41 PM »

As the regs currently sit.  That is outside your lane.

Please cite. I'll certainly address this with my commander if it's incorrect, but as far as my understanding goes, it's perfectly acceptable for a cadet officer to prepare the F50/60-90, including the opinion that the cadet should be promoted, and send it to him for approval... he decides whether that box stays checked, and he signs. Since review boards are requested at least a week in advance, we discuss performance at the previous meeting and already know what will be on the form... including the decision.

52-16 5.2.f, "Advancement, and the promotions in grade that accompany it, becomes official when the squadron commander (or designee) endorses the cadet’s record in the Cadet Promotions Application in eServices or, alternatively, endorses the CAPF 52-series form."

It's his signature at the bottom of the form, and his agreement that "Promotion Approved" is correct. That seems like endorsement to me...

60-1 5.2.1, "Advancement, and the promotions in grade that accompany it, become official when the squadron commander (or designee) endorses the cadet’s record in the Cadet Promotions Application in eServices."
5.7.1, "Commanders  must  ensure  each  cadet  receives  constructive  feedback using the CAPF 60-90 series, Cadet Leadership Feedback, ... Adult leaders and  cadet  officers  may  conduct  CAPF  60-90  series  evaluations  (cadet  officers  may  evaluate  cadets  who are  junior  to  them  in  grade).  Commanders  may  approve  or  disapprove  the  evaluation;  ultimately  the commander must ensure the cadet’s progress is evaluated properly."

Again, it's the Commander who approves the evaluation regardless.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2017, 11:03:38 PM »

Yes, but it's the promotion board that recommends, or does not, a promotion, not an
individual cadet (or senior member).

Assuming you are on that board, you are one voice in the mix.  If you aren't on that board,
you can have an opinion, but it may not even be considered.

Also, the evaluator is supposed to be a senior member, or if it's a cadet, that cadet is to work under a
senior members supervision, not simply prepare the form themselves and hand it to the CC.

There are very good, well thought-out reasoning behind this, not the least of which is that
not only are cadets perishable in regards to time, but cadets at all levels are still learning,
by design, and an improperly prepared or executed Leadership conference could well
stifle a cadets motivation permanently.
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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2017, 11:23:10 PM »

I think I see what you're saying, but I believe it is a non-issue in my case. I work with the CDC in pre-discussion (often I ask the first sergeant for input if I don't know the cadet very well - as he isn't yet a cadet officer he shouldn't be on boards), and although I normally start off the board, there's never any question that the CC is in charge. All board members provide feedback and When I send the form 50, it includes the input of all board members. We have a small squadron, and from frequent communications with my commanders it's generally quite obvious what the promotion decisions and feedback will be.

Feedback sessions are indeed important - as an airman and junior NCO many of mine were poorly executed, so I never attempt to advise from my opinions alone.
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stillamarine
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« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2017, 12:51:43 PM »

If I recall correctly the CDC is the supposed to be the chair of the board is he not? If so he should be the one making the recommendation not the cadet commander.
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« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2017, 01:10:05 PM »

I'm not sure, as the CC is the promotion authority (unless the regs mean CDC when 'Commander' is used). Since we're communicating and the only difference is who types the form 50, it shouldn't matter one way or another, especially when the C/CC is directed to type it and recommend to the CC (based on the discussion with the CDC prior to writing it). During the review session we have cadets report in to the CC or CDC, never the C/CC...
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PHall
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« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2017, 03:24:35 PM »

If I recall correctly the CDC is the supposed to be the chair of the board is he not? If so he should be the one making the recommendation not the cadet commander.

The current 52-16 does not agree with you. It is silent on who is on the board (if used).
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Eclipse
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« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2017, 03:39:16 PM »

If I recall correctly the CDC is the supposed to be the chair of the board is he not? If so he should be the one making the recommendation not the cadet commander.

The current 52-16 does not agree with you. It is silent on who is on the board (if used).

Promo boards are currently required.

CAPR 52-16:
"d. Promotion Boards. Effective 1 September 2014, units will hold promotion boards to help the
commander decide if cadets are ready to accept the increased responsibilities that come with their
promotions. At a minimum, the board meets without the cadet present and reviews the cadet’s personnel
file to ensure he or she is qualified for promotion. At least once per phase, commanders will have the cadet
meet with the board in person for a mentoring discussion. When in-person boards are conducted, they will
operate according to CAPP 52-15, Cadet Staff Handbook, 2.7, and must meet the following criteria:"


They appear to be eliminated entirely in the upcoming CP revision, in favor of "Feedback Meetings", which
are not a ""promotion board".

CAPR 60-1 (eff Feb 2018)
"5.7.2. Feedback Meetings. At least once per phase, commanders will ensure the cadet participates in
a feedback meeting, which is a mentoring opportunity and discussion about the cadet’s performance in
the Cadet Program. Feedback meetings will operate according to CAPP 60-31, Cadet Staff Handbook, 2.7,
and must meet the following criteria:
• A completed CAPF 60-90 series form must serve as the basis for discussion.
• Feedback meetings will not re-test cadets on material they already passed through achievement
tests.
• Commanders must apply local promotion practices consistently, with all similarly-situated cadets
subject to the same process."


I read this as "assumed promotable absent a justification", with promotion boards no longer required
for each achievement / milestone.  CC's can choose to do a 60-90 for each promotion, but those who
don't would not have a board to refer to any more for cadets.

The term "promotion board" does not seem to appear at all within 60-1.

Cadet may now explicitly evaluate subordinates:
"5.7.1. Leadership Feedback. Commanders must ensure each cadet receives constructive feed-back
using the CAPF 60-90 series, Cadet Leadership Feedback, at least once per phase. The CAPF 60-90 series
includes four forms – CAPF 60-91, CAPF 60-92, CAPF 60-93 and CAPF 60-94 – one for each phase in the
Cadet Program. Two forms – CAPF 60-95 and CAPF 60-96 – are tailored for encampments. Adult leaders
and cadet officers may conduct CAPF 60-90 series evaluations (cadet officers may evaluate cadets who
are junior to them in grade). Commanders may approve or disapprove the evaluation; ultimately the
commander must ensure the cadet’s progress is evaluated properly."


And of course 60-31 has a lot more detail on procedures for boards.
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« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2017, 04:07:55 PM »

If I recall correctly the CDC is the supposed to be the chair of the board is he not? If so he should be the one making the recommendation not the cadet commander.

The current 52-16 does not agree with you. It is silent on who is on the board (if used).
...
Cadet may now explicitly evaluate subordinates:

Cadets could already explicitly evaluate subordinates per the reference in CAPR 52-16 (CAPP 52-15 2.7). CAPP 52-15 (2.7), which has identical verbiage except in form number to CAPP 60-22 (2.7), refers to leadership feedback meetings and promotion boards, but suggests the same procedure for both. I tend to think that leadership feedback meetings happen without necessarily being tied to a promotion...

In my squadron, we have 'in person' promotion boards for milestones and a few other promotions, and the 'board meets without cadet present' (which should not, IMO, be called a promotion board) for all others. Of course, since 52-16 doesn't specify who needs to be on the board, the board meeting without the cadet present can consist one member (the CC saying ye or nay).
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Eclipse
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« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2017, 04:15:21 PM »

(which should not, IMO, be called a promotion board)

Why?  By far the majority of promotion & merit boards in the military and civilian agencies
do not involve a door knock and an interview. 

They are usually a group of either appointed commissioners or staff officers / NCOs sitting around
with a stack of submissions, PRs, or similar and discussing the names.

There's nothing wrong with helping to prepare cadets for job interviews and the like,
but frankly, if you don't know enough about a cadet's performance to know whether
he's promotable without a board, there's a serious disconnect somewhere.

The hard-chargers and problem children always bubble up, with those at the mid-point generally
being a non-issue.
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« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2017, 04:31:09 PM »

(which should not, IMO, be called a promotion board)

Why?  By far the majority of promotion & merit boards in the military and civilian agencies
do not involve a door knock and an interview. 

They are usually a group of either appointed commissioners or staff officers / NCOs sitting around
with a stack of submissions, PRs, or similar and discussing the names.

There's nothing wrong with helping to prepare cadets for job interviews and the like,
but frankly, if you don't know enough about a cadet's performance to know whether
he's promotable without a board, there's a serious disconnect somewhere.

The hard-chargers and problem children always bubble up, with those at the mid-point generally
being a non-issue.

What exactly is a promotion board? Except in CAPR 52-16, I've only ever heard of a promotion board coinciding with a leadership feedback meeting; that's how my leaders have always used it. Since that's the definition I'm familiar with, naturally a board meeting without a cadet present doesn't sound like a board. I have zero experience with military promotions and haven't heard of promotion boards in other contexts.

If you're taking issue with whether I think promotability is determined from a board, please read my earlier posts where I indicate it isn't. In person boards are leadership feedback meetings (since they center around CAPF 50s), and in order to give feedback on a cadet's performance, the evaluator(s) must already know said cadet's performance (and hence, whether they are promotable).
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Eclipse
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« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2017, 04:46:43 PM »

What exactly is a promotion board? Except in CAPR 52-16, I've only ever heard of a promotion board coinciding with a leadership feedback meeting; that's how my leaders have always used it. Since that's the definition I'm familiar with, naturally a board meeting without a cadet present doesn't sound like a board. I have zero experience with military promotions and haven't heard of promotion boards in other contexts.

People appointed to discuss and decide whether (in this case), a cadet is ready for promotion.  There's no harm nor foul in
not knowing this, you're learning too.  Depending on a given board's authority, some have the final say, and some make recommendations
to a higher authority or another board or committee.  A lot of merit and promo boards have the final and only say in
civilian life, many promo boards in military, as well as those in CAP, make recommendations which the final authority (i.e. the command(s))
may accept or ignore.  Ignoring a promo board recommendation may lead to later "we told you" issues", though that's
not generally a problem in CAP, since grade confers no authority or remuneration.

If you're taking issue with whether I think promotability is determined from a board, please read my earlier posts where I indicate it isn't.In person boards are leadership feedback meetings (since they center around CAPF 50s), and in order to give feedback on a cadet's performance, the evaluator(s) must already know said cadet's performance (and hence, whether they are promotable).

I wasn't, but now maybe I am.  When does the required promotion board discuss and make their recommendation?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 04:50:28 PM by Eclipse » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2017, 05:03:01 PM »

Before the review meeting, in my squadron usually in the preceding week. It's necessary to discuss before the board, since the board should start off by stating the promotion decision...
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stillamarine
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« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2017, 07:00:47 PM »

If I recall correctly the CDC is the supposed to be the chair of the board is he not? If so he should be the one making the recommendation not the cadet commander.

The current 52-16 does not agree with you. It is silent on who is on the board (if used).

Got ya. I know my last squadron the cadet promotion board was chaired by the CDC and the Senior promotion board was chaired by the CDS. In theory..........
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PHall
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« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2017, 08:41:21 PM »

If I recall correctly the CDC is the supposed to be the chair of the board is he not? If so he should be the one making the recommendation not the cadet commander.

The current 52-16 does not agree with you. It is silent on who is on the board (if used).

Got ya. I know my last squadron the cadet promotion board was chaired by the CDC and the Senior promotion board was chaired by the CDS. In theory..........

In my squadron we usually have the CDC, The Cadet Commander, Their Flight Commander and the Squadron Commander if they want to sit in on it.
But it can vary depending on who's available that night.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2017, 12:25:30 AM »

What exactly is a promotion board?

In a pure military context, it's a group of members who review individual service records to determine whether to promote, or not. My record was before the Navy Chief's board a few times to determine my worthiness. I was at my duty station, and the record review was at the Navy Bureau of Personnel.b
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2017, 11:24:50 AM »

Thanks, Eclipse and SarDragon. Learn something new every day :)
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2017, 01:55:03 PM »

Yes, but it's the promotion board that recommends, or does not, a promotion, not an
individual cadet (or senior member).

Assuming you are on that board, you are one voice in the mix.  If you aren't on that board,
you can have an opinion, but it may not even be considered.

Also, the evaluator is supposed to be a senior member, or if it's a cadet, that cadet is to work under a
senior members supervision, not simply prepare the form themselves and hand it to the CC.

There are very good, well thought-out reasoning behind this, not the least of which is that
not only are cadets perishable in regards to time, but cadets at all levels are still learning,
by design, and an improperly prepared or executed Leadership conference could well
stifle a cadets motivation permanently.

Right. If there is a board held, it should be a vote. The chairperson should not go "Okay, but I disagree with everyone here." He/she should be facilitating the board, not deciding for it.

When I advise my Commander on promotions, I am doing so as the voice of those that were consulted in the review process. "This is what the staff suggests."

I think I see what you're saying, but I believe it is a non-issue in my case. I work with the CDC in pre-discussion (often I ask the first sergeant for input if I don't know the cadet very well - as he isn't yet a cadet officer he shouldn't be on boards), and although I normally start off the board, there's never any question that the CC is in charge.

This is a unit SOP, and not a general practice that I know of.

There is no reason I see that a First Sergeant wouldn't be included in the discussion on a C/SSgt board, or any other senior C/NCO for that matter. I wouldn't advise having a C/MSgt on a C/2d Lt board, but I see no issue with having a senior cadet non-commissioned officer as part of the review discussion for junior cadets.

Really, your First Sergeant should have a somewhat decent indication of that cadet's skills in drill, mentorship, discipline, uniformity, etc. To say you're going to consult him but then say his opinion won't be considered makes no sense to me.

Is there something here I'm not getting?
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Cadetter
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« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2017, 03:07:29 PM »

Well, the reg says cadet officers can evaluate cadets junior in grade. I see no issue with a First Sergeant on boards aside from it. I don't think he's supposed to be on boards because of the letter of the law, but happily my CDC disagrees, and hence the 1st Sgt is on every board (except officers').
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2017, 09:16:03 PM »

Well, the reg says cadet officers can evaluate cadets junior in grade. I see no issue with a First Sergeant on boards aside from it. I don't think he's supposed to be on boards because of the letter of the law, but happily my CDC disagrees, and hence the 1st Sgt is on every board (except officers').

There is no "letter of the law" to that. The regulations do not state who can or cannot be on a board. It does, however, state who should not be on a board, with an emphasis on family members (e.g., if the CDC is the cadet's parent, then the CDC should not sit in on the review board).

You're correct that cadet officers may evaluate a cadet using the Form 50; however, that's literally in respect to cadet officers using the Form 50 to evaluate a cadet for promotion and make that recommendation to the Commander for the final decision. Any cadet can evaluate any cadet (although best practice would always be to evaluate top-down, obviously). You can have a C/MSgt evaluate a C/SrA using a Form 50, or even an alternative form if your unit has one, under the delegation of the chain of command; it doesn't need to be used solely for a promotion. Form 50s aren't actually required for promotions, but for the mandatory once-per-phase feedback session. Review boards usually just fall in line with that, as it's a suggested part of the leadership curriculum, whereas a "feedback session" not directly linked to a promotion loses an opportunity to train and mentor in addition to reviewing a cadet for promotion.

I don't like that the R52-16 states that a board with the cadet present must be held in accordance with the Cadet Staff Handbook which is guidance; suggested practices. In fact, the handbook even suggests congratulating the cadet at the end of the board, as well as handling sustaining the cadet in grade. Unless the Commander is apart of that board, neither of those should occur.
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Fubar
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« Reply #37 on: Today at 02:39:21 AM »

Across the CAP it sounds like there is an interesting variety in where exactly the promotion board (cadet feedback session) occurs in the process. Some seem to treat it as the promotion board itself, creating a pass/fail for the cadet attempting promotion, using the CAPF 50 to document the session and provide the recommendation to the commander. Others use the feedback session and CAPF 50 to communicate to the cadet the decision of the commander and document the feedback session on the CAPF 50.

Either way, it would appear that come 1 Feb, the whole thing is moot as the new regulation makes it clear the meetings are for mentoring and not a pass/fail endeavor, as stated in Cadet Staff Handbook which per the regulation, spells out the process:

Quote from: CAPP 60-90
Put the cadet at ease so they may focus on the officers’ guidance. If using the CAPF 60-90 series form in conjunction with a promotion board, state whether the cadet will be promoted or not. Getting that question out of the way allows the cadet to focus on the feedback.

Of course having a regulation point to a pamphlet is a whole different thread of discussion, but for now it's clearly how NHQ (and the national commander who signed off on the regulation) wants the process handled.
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Review Board questions
 


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