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December 17, 2017, 11:52:37 AM
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: CAP Pilots - Flying Shoes
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Author Topic: CAP Pilots - Flying Shoes  (Read 1958 times)
SLOWR426
Newbie

Posts: 2
Unit: CA

« on: November 17, 2017, 07:39:59 PM »

I just achieved TMP, doing my Form 5 wearing zip-up tactical boots per the Corporate uniform.  They made rudder work a bit of a pain.

What shoes do you experienced Mission pilots wear?

Can we wear any black tennis shoes and still comply with the corporate uniform?

Those Lyft flying shoes look pretty practical. Can we change shoes during preflight into non - approved footwear?  For safety sake?
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 28,082

« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 07:56:48 PM »

I just achieved TMP, doing my Form 5 wearing zip-up tactical boots per the Corporate uniform.  They made rudder work a bit of a pain.

Can we wear any black tennis shoes and still comply with the corporate uniform?
No.
What shoes do you experienced Mission pilots wear?
Most just wear boots or normal uniform-compliant street shoes.

Those Lyft flying shoes look pretty practical. Can we change shoes during preflight into non - approved footwear?  For safety sake?
No.
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
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Spaceman3750
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,620

« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 09:23:38 PM »

I just achieved TMP, doing my Form 5 wearing zip-up tactical boots per the Corporate uniform.  They made rudder work a bit of a pain.

Can we wear any black tennis shoes and still comply with the corporate uniform?
No.

BBDU (this is actually what the reg says... bad editing):
Quote
5.2.1.7. Footwear. Socks black shoes or booand black combat boots are mandatory with this uniform.

Polo:
Quote
5.2.2.6. Footwear. Black socks (white socks may be worn with boots) and any plain black shoe, boot or combat boot are required with this uniform (see paragraph 6.4.4 (Male), 6.4.5 (Female) and 6.4.3 (Combat Boots)

I don’t see anything there to support your answer. Just says black shoes or boots.
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The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 865

« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 09:30:27 PM »

Really enjoy my Rockports. Comfy, can walk for miles and still look 'dressy enough'. Works great for the polo & gray slacks.

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MS - MO - AP - MP
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 694
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2017, 02:14:39 AM »

Visit a police uniform store. They have lots of shoes that look like military plain toes, but are virtual tennis shoes without looking like them.


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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
CAPLTC
Member

Posts: 66
Unit: MER

« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2017, 09:27:30 AM »

Can we change shoes during preflight into non - approved footwear?  For safety sake?

Yes.
Wear whatever you want in the cockpit.
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"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
Storm Chaser
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,678

« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 02:26:23 AM »

Can we change shoes during preflight into non - approved footwear?  For safety sake?

Yes.
Wear whatever you want in the cockpit.

That’s incorrect. Only authorized CAP uniforms as prescribed in CAPM 39-1 can be worn during flight in accordance with CAPR 60-1 and the upcoming CAPR 70-1.
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CAPLTC
Member

Posts: 66
Unit: MER

« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2017, 10:56:59 AM »

That’s incorrect. Only authorized CAP uniforms as prescribed in CAPM 39-1 can be worn during flight in accordance with CAPR 60-1 and the upcoming CAPR 70-1.

Crazy talk.
He'll be OK wearing whatever shoes are most suited to him in the cockpit.
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"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,535

« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2017, 12:33:59 PM »

So you are saying that CAP regulations are just that - A suggestion?
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Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 694
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2017, 03:05:13 PM »

That’s incorrect. Only authorized CAP uniforms as prescribed in CAPM 39-1 can be worn during flight in accordance with CAPR 60-1 and the upcoming CAPR 70-1.

Crazy talk.
He'll be OK wearing whatever shoes are most suited to him in the cockpit.

“...most suited to him...” is a pretty wide description and is out of sync with the requirement to wear a uniform, as it could be contrary to uniform requirements.

What if the “most suited to him” is flip flops? Cowboy boots? Bunny slippers? Barefoot?


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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,535

« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2017, 05:45:54 PM »

Flipflops are not shoes, neither is going barefoot...

Yet we have identified one member that seems to regard CAP regulations as suggestions instead of regulations...

 >:D
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Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
SLOWR426
Newbie

Posts: 2
Unit: CA

« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2017, 08:58:51 PM »

Thank you all for your help, especially those who understand my safety concerns while flying left seat.  I ended up getting some Rockport black shoes which I think qualify, and are extremely light weight with very flexible soles, without a heel.  It should help with rudder feel and taxiing significantly over the more formal, rigid shoes and tactical boots:



« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 09:02:00 PM by SLOWR426 » Logged
Flying Pig
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,041

« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2017, 03:31:05 PM »

If you are in the corporate uniform (Blue Polo and Grey slacks) shoes are fine.  If you are in a flight suit, make the effort to wear something that looks like a boot.  Seriously.... wearing shoes in a flight suit  makes you look silly.   Most CAP pilots look horrendous in a flight suit.  if you showed up to my work looking like most CAP pilots, I would send you home if you were an employee.   There are so many different options for boots these days, there is no reason to show up in black tennis shoes in a flight suit. 

On a side note..... the blue/grey corporate uniform needs a serious revamp.  its just ugly and looks like something that got on a time machine out of the 1980s.
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Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 482

« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2017, 02:20:35 AM »

I'm curious if you have ever considered the risk of a post crash fire?  Or an inflight fire?  If you're thinking of becoming a MP a lot of your air time may be over terrain where an off airport landing might not be a happy prospect.  Leather boots are a really good idea if you want to fly searches, or even photo missions.  So is nomex rather than a polo shirt and synthetic slacks.  FWIW, you'll get used to flying in boots.  Try Danners law enforcement models.  They're flexible, comfortable, and work very well in the cockpit.  http://www.danner.com/men/law-enforcement/?sortId=product-family
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Cliff_Chambliss
Seasoned Member

Posts: 395

« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2017, 10:02:55 AM »

I'm curious if you have ever considered the risk of a post crash fire?  Or an inflight fire?  If you're thinking of becoming a MP a lot of your air time may be over terrain where an off airport landing might not be a happy prospect.  Leather boots are a really good idea if you want to fly searches, or even photo missions.  So is nomex rather than a polo shirt and synthetic slacks.  FWIW, you'll get used to flying in boots.  Try Danners law enforcement models.  They're flexible, comfortable, and work very well in the cockpit.  http://www.danner.com/men/law-enforcement/?sortId=product-family

Safety talk:  Always dress for the environment NOT the flight.  If not Nomex, wear natural fiber.  offers better protection than synthetics in a fire.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 933

« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2017, 01:18:54 PM »

If you are in a flight suit, make the effort to wear something that looks like a boot. 

If you are in a flight suit, wear boots, not something that "looks like a boot." That's the regulation. That's the requirement.

If someone doesn't want to wear boots, they need to wear a different uniform. If they can't get over that, go serve in another organization that has standards you prefer.
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Vegas1972
Recruit

Posts: 27
Unit: PCR-NV

« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2017, 01:28:05 PM »

If you are in a flight suit, make the effort to wear something that looks like a boot. 

If you are in a flight suit, wear boots, not something that "looks like a boot." That's the regulation. That's the requirement.

If someone doesn't want to wear boots, they need to wear a different uniform. If they can't get over that, go serve in another organization that has standards you prefer.

Unless you're in the CFDU...
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.", Sgt. John M. Stryker.
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 865

« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2017, 04:48:09 PM »


On a side note..... the blue/grey corporate uniform needs a serious revamp.  its just ugly and looks like something that got on a time machine out of the 1980s.

Please no. I shudder to think what might would replace it. Oh my!

Polos are timeless. So not sure what you mean. Whether casual wear on the weekend personal time or as employee uniform shirts for millions of folks, polos are still the choice very often.
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MS - MO - AP - MP
Flying Pig
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,041

« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2017, 07:31:31 AM »

There is a lot of credibility lost on the "safety" argument when I can wear tennis shoes and fly in the blue polo combo... but if I wear a flight suit I have to be in leather boots.  As far as y comment about wear something that "looks like a boot" there are probably hundreds of selections out there that meet the requirements of CAP uniform regs
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 933

« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2017, 02:22:15 PM »

Unless you're in the CFDU...

Correct. I was going toward the Corporate Field Uniform. I saw "corporate uniform" and that immediately clicked to me. You're right about the CFDU. Never crossed my mind.
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chuckmilam
Recruit

Posts: 49
Unit: GLR-KY-216

« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2017, 03:27:16 PM »

I just achieved TMP, doing my Form 5 wearing zip-up tactical boots per the Corporate uniform.  They made rudder work a bit of a pain.
It's possible you need to change your boots or size up.  I had a particular work boot I was very fond of that apparently changed their pattern at some point.  The newest ones I bought  (my fourth pair) would press a seam against my inner ankle bone and make wearing them agony--and they wouldn't "break in," no matter what I tried.  I eventually switch to a different boot.  Problem solved. 
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Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 482

« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 08:12:37 PM »

There is a lot of credibility lost on the "safety" argument when I can wear tennis shoes and fly in the blue polo combo... but if I wear a flight suit I have to be in leather boots.  As far as y comment about wear something that "looks like a boot" there are probably hundreds of selections out there that meet the requirements of CAP uniform regs

I don't see any credibility issues.  Maybe issues of judgement and situational awareness, but not safety.  There is no question that nomex and boots are "safer" should an off airport landing occur, or one on airport that ends badly.  If a pilot choses to wear polyester and plastic ... well enough said. 

About 21 years ago a CAP pilot took off on a "proficiency" flight in a R/W/B C182 wearing shoes, thin socks, and polyester slacks, flight suit, and jacket.  He encountered ice, made a textbook off airport landing (in snow) and survived about 24 hours ... rescue was delayed because of a spring blizzard.  Dress for the crash, potential post crash fire, and post landing environment.  While that accident was 'pre-GPS', a 406ELT & ADS/B wouldn't have made much difference.  Aircraft and ground teams don't do well in blizzard conditions.  "Be Prepared" is a good motto for CAP, as well as Boy Scouts.   https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20001207X03205&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=GA
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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 132
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2017, 09:19:21 PM »

There is a lot of credibility lost on the "safety" argument when I can wear tennis shoes and fly in the blue polo combo... but if I wear a flight suit I have to be in leather boots.  As far as y comment about wear something that "looks like a boot" there are probably hundreds of selections out there that meet the requirements of CAP uniform regs

I don't see any credibility issues.  Maybe issues of judgement and situational awareness, but not safety.  There is no question that nomex and boots are "safer" should an off airport landing occur, or one on airport that ends badly.  If a pilot choses to wear polyester and plastic ... well enough said. 

About 21 years ago a CAP pilot took off on a "proficiency" flight in a R/W/B C182 wearing shoes, thin socks, and polyester slacks, flight suit, and jacket.  He encountered ice, made a textbook off airport landing (in snow) and survived about 24 hours ... rescue was delayed because of a spring blizzard.  Dress for the crash, potential post crash fire, and post landing environment.  While that accident was 'pre-GPS', a 406ELT & ADS/B wouldn't have made much difference.  Aircraft and ground teams don't do well in blizzard conditions.  "Be Prepared" is a good motto for CAP, as well as Boy Scouts.   https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20001207X03205&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=GA
Thanks. A great reminder. R.I.P.
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: CAP Pilots - Flying Shoes
 


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