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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: CAPR 60-1, 99 Lead Balloons
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 758

« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2017, 01:37:13 PM »

Once a cadet becomes an active duty military member they are no longer allowed to be a cadet. 

A slight qualification.  The regulation uses the term "extended active duty" and makes it clear that cadets undergoing basic training for the Guard or Reserve remain eligible for cadet membership.  Even though the military itself would consider them on a form of active duty, usually "ADT" or Active Duty for Training.  The point is that there are several different flavors of "active duty," not all of which are disqualifying. 

Cadets serving in the Guard and Reserve are normally a "win-win-win" for the cadet, CAP, and Uncle Sam, all of whom benefit from the synergy of the training.


Ned Lee
National Cadet Program Manager

Thank you sir, I am aware of that distinction.  That is why I said "becomes an active duty member."  I probably should have made the distinction more clear in my initial post.  We did have a Reservist a few years ago and it was certainly a win-win-win.
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MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,795
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2017, 02:11:03 PM »

Once a cadet becomes an active duty military member they are no longer allowed to be a cadet. 

A slight qualification.  The regulation uses the term "extended active duty" and makes it clear that cadets undergoing basic training for the Guard or Reserve remain eligible for cadet membership.  Even though the military itself would consider them on a form of active duty, usually "ADT" or Active Duty for Training.  The point is that there are several different flavors of "active duty," not all of which are disqualifying. 

Cadets serving in the Guard and Reserve are normally a "win-win-win" for the cadet, CAP, and Uncle Sam, all of whom benefit from the synergy of the training.


Ned Lee
National Cadet Program Manager

Thank you sir, I am aware of that distinction.  That is why I said "becomes an active duty member."  I probably should have made the distinction more clear in my initial post.  We did have a Reservist a few years ago and it was certainly a win-win-win.

If their unit gets activated to support current operations, they must transfer to Senior Membership.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
skyhawkcdr
Recruit

Posts: 5

« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2017, 02:30:53 PM »

Thank you to everyone for the information given. I understand all issues can be resolved by submitting the right paperwork. 
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Ned
Resident Philosopher

Posts: 2,122

« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2017, 03:30:29 PM »


If their unit gets activated to support current operations, they must transfer to Senior Membership.

Again, it depends.  I've certainly activated soldiers in my unit to "support current ops" and just had them come on for 30 days to prep & maintain vehicles scheduled for deployment.  In my view such a cadet/soldier would remain eligible for cadet membership.

Even if it is a "all hands on deck" unit deployment to the sandbox, the cadet/service member may be under 18 and thus not deployable OCONUS under US and international law.  Or may be assigned to the rear detachment at the armory.  Or whatever.

The point is, the military has a lot of rules about "active duty" and change them with some regularity.  We need to look at each case individually to decide if whatever they are doing meets CAP's definition of "extended" active duty found in the regulation.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,877

« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2017, 03:43:56 PM »

Once a cadet becomes an active duty military member they are no longer allowed to be a cadet. 

A slight qualification.  The regulation uses the term "extended active duty" and makes it clear that cadets undergoing basic training for the Guard or Reserve remain eligible for cadet membership.  Even though the military itself would consider them on a form of active duty, usually "ADT" or Active Duty for Training.  The point is that there are several different flavors of "active duty," not all of which are disqualifying. 

Cadets serving in the Guard and Reserve are normally a "win-win-win" for the cadet, CAP, and Uncle Sam, all of whom benefit from the synergy of the training.


Ned Lee
National Cadet Program Manager

Thank you sir, I am aware of that distinction.  That is why I said "becomes an active duty member."  I probably should have made the distinction more clear in my initial post.  We did have a Reservist a few years ago and it was certainly a win-win-win.

If their unit gets activated to support current operations, they must transfer to Senior Membership.

No, it would be if they get activated. The unit might get activated, but, there are usually some unit members who get excluded for a number of reasons.
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s.cap
Recruit

Posts: 7
Unit: SER-GA-045

« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2017, 11:01:58 AM »

Any word on how the fitness test for the Spaatz exam may change?
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 28,072

« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2017, 11:19:35 AM »

Any word on how the fitness test for the Spaatz exam may change?

The standards are in the links provided.  it is now purported to be the same as USAFA entrance PT.

                 M     F
SIT-UPS     81    78
PUSH-UPS  62    41
MILE RUN  6:29 7:30
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

wacapgh
Forum Regular

Posts: 185

« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2017, 04:24:13 PM »

The AFMAN is the official reference for D&C, not that pesky CAP one we’ve been trying to get people to use for like a year and a half.

Found it - it's listed halfway down on the right side of Attachment 3. Haven't found any mention of the Cadet Drill Guide from 2014.

So by regulation, if there is a conflict or question the AFMAN is the final authority.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,877

« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2017, 08:14:38 PM »

The AFMAN is the official reference for D&C, not that pesky CAP one we’ve been trying to get people to use for like a year and a half.

Found it - it's listed halfway down on the right side of Attachment 3. Haven't found any mention of the Cadet Drill Guide from 2014.

So by regulation, if there is a conflict or question the AFMAN is the final authority.

Which manual/regulation is this in?
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s.cap
Recruit

Posts: 7
Unit: SER-GA-045

« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2017, 08:19:10 PM »

Any word on how the fitness test for the Spaatz exam may change?

The standards are in the links provided.  it is now purported to be the same as USAFA entrance PT.

                 M     F
SIT-UPS     81    78
PUSH-UPS  62    41
MILE RUN  6:29 7:30

Ah, yes.  6:29 looked like 6:23 when I glanced over it, so I thought it hadn't changed.

Thanks!
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 758

« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2017, 09:13:07 PM »

The AFMAN is the official reference for D&C, not that pesky CAP one we’ve been trying to get people to use for like a year and a half.

Found it - it's listed halfway down on the right side of Attachment 3. Haven't found any mention of the Cadet Drill Guide from 2014.

So by regulation, if there is a conflict or question the AFMAN is the final authority.

Which manual/regulation is this in?

According to CAPR 60-1, both AFMAN 36-2203 and CAPP 60-33 are to be used.  60-33 is mostly just a cut and paste from 36-2203 with some CAP specific stuff added. 
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CAPLTC
Member

Posts: 65
Unit: MER

« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2017, 11:00:20 PM »

Good thread, thanks for highlighting the changes.
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"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
NEBoom
Seasoned Member

Posts: 200

« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2017, 04:38:23 PM »

I noticed in attachment 1, SUI checklist item 2, ("Has the unit adopted a set of annual goals?") under verification it states, "Squadron uploads unit’s goals document to eServices."  Then it references paragraph 4.2.1.  But that paragraph does not mention such a requirement, nor does it explain how/where to upload your goals document.

A potential "gotcha" when  your SUI comes around.
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Lt Col Dan Kirwan, CAP
Nebraska Wing
Ned
Resident Philosopher

Posts: 2,122

« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2017, 05:44:52 PM »

I noticed in attachment 1, SUI checklist item 2, ("Has the unit adopted a set of annual goals?") under verification it states, "Squadron uploads unit’s goals document to eServices."  Then it references paragraph 4.2.1.  But that paragraph does not mention such a requirement, nor does it explain how/where to upload your goals document.

A potential "gotcha" when  your SUI comes around.

So, the apparent disconnect comes about because it is the SUI process that requires the unit goal upload to eServices, not the reg. Restated, nobody needs to routinely upload their unit goals.  Until they get scheduled for an SUI.  At that point, the unit will receive instructions on how to prepare for the SUI, which will inlculde uploading various documents for review by the inspectors. (Along with other documents in other functional areas.)

Sorry for the confusion.  We will take a close look at trying to explain that more clearly.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Program Manager
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CAPLTC
Member

Posts: 65
Unit: MER

« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2017, 10:51:53 AM »

https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/index.cfm?cadet_regulation_2018_available_for_preview&show=entry&blogID=1857

Summary.  For a summary of the program enhancements and administrative updates, an online presentation is available as a simple PDF and as a recorded webinar.

Fitness. One of the two biggest program enhancements in the regulation is the introduction of the Active Cadet Fitness Program and a revised Cadet Physical Fitness Test. Squadrons that are eager to switch to the new CPFT may do so immediately, but the transition is not mandatory until 1 February 2018. Online CPFT administration tools will be available at that time, and a large variety of fitness activity plans will as well. 
https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/fitness/

Staff Duty Analysis.  The other big program enhancement in the regulation is the introduction of a revised SDA program. During each Achievement in Phases III and IV, cadets will serve in a support staff role, draft one of eight types of technical documents, and deliver an oral briefing using the technical document as a jumping off point. CAPP 60-32, Staff Duty Analysis, is available now. Squadrons that are eager to switch to the new SDA may do so now, or wait until 1 February. Tools for tracking the completion of SDAs in eServices will soon be updated.
https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/cadet_staff_duty_analysis/

Updates to Other Cadet Publications.  As the cadet regulation changes, so too will the library of other cadet-related forms and pamphlets. We will be gradually phasing-in revised publications throughout 2018. For now, the following revised publications are available:

CAPP 60-12, Parents’ Guide to the CAP Cadet Program
Replaces the unnumbered Parents Guide. Adds sections on CEAP and Curry Blues Voucher. Adds content about ABUs. Mentions that CAP is open to youth who have special needs and asks parents to bring those needs to local leaders’ attention. New cadets receive a copy of the Parents’ Guide with their New Cadet Packet. Hardcopies will also be available through Vanguard.
https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/parents/

CAPF 60-90 series, Cadet Leadership Feedback
Replaces the CAPF 50 series. No substantive changes made.
https://www.capmembers.com/cadet_programs/library/leadership-feedback/

CAPVA 60-100, Cadet Super Chart
Updated to reflect the new CPFT and SDA rules. The Super Chart is available online, formatted for printing on two sheets of letter-size paper. We also plan to provide every squadron with a poster-size version in early 2018.
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Super_Chart__2017_letter__combined_17CB4F9432F4D.pdf

CAPVA 60-101, Personal Cadet Tracker
Updated to reflect the new CPFT and SDA rules. The suggested best practice for using this document is for each cadet to print a copy, keep it at home, and manually update it as they progress so they can set goals and stay abreast of what they need to do to earn promotions.
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/Personal_Tracker_26E409B4B484D.pdf

DDR & Future of the Cadet Character Program.  One consequence of the new CAPR 60-1 is that the stand-alone regulation on Drug Demand Reduction, CAPR 52-22, is rescinded. A memo explains how that will affect the future of the cadet character development program.
https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/DDR_Letter_0E7408635DDA9.pdf

CAPR 60-2, Cadet Protection Policy.
Replaces CAPR 52-10. No major substantive changes are planned. The draft regulation is in the final stages of staff coordination. It is hoped that it will be published by year's end with a 1 February 2018 effective date.

Great summation.
Thanks for hanging it here.
Helpful.
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"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
NEBoom
Seasoned Member

Posts: 200

« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2017, 06:01:13 PM »

I noticed in attachment 1, SUI checklist item 2, ("Has the unit adopted a set of annual goals?") under verification it states, "Squadron uploads unit’s goals document to eServices."  Then it references paragraph 4.2.1.  But that paragraph does not mention such a requirement, nor does it explain how/where to upload your goals document.

A potential "gotcha" when  your SUI comes around.

So, the apparent disconnect comes about because it is the SUI process that requires the unit goal upload to eServices, not the reg. Restated, nobody needs to routinely upload their unit goals.  Until they get scheduled for an SUI.  At that point, the unit will receive instructions on how to prepare for the SUI, which will inlculde uploading various documents for review by the inspectors. (Along with other documents in other functional areas.)

Sorry for the confusion.  We will take a close look at trying to explain that more clearly.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Program Manager

Ned,
That makes sense, thanks for the clarification.
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Lt Col Dan Kirwan, CAP
Nebraska Wing
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 963
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2017, 02:54:29 PM »

Typo catch:
"2.6.2.1. Monitoring Weather Conditions. When cadet activities take place outside a military installation and temperatures are forecast to be below 45O F [sic], commanders and activity directors will monitor the wind chill temperature at least every 3 hours".

Awesome. At 450 degrees Farenheit, at least the injury forms we're filling out won't ignite.   >:D



"2.6.2.4. Winter Camping. Camping in conditions where the temperature may fall below 30OF may be conducted only as a high adventure activity (HAA, see 2.9 below) and in accordance with Table 2.3. The HAA proposal must describe plans for warming cadets, dealing with wet conditions, and evacuation to indoor facilities".

On a more serious note, I'm reviewing two submitted plans for exercises/FTXs in the February time frame, and they'll have to comply with this section (which is good, thinking ahead...). Y'all don't let this sneak up on you, read the new reg and get your HAA request in. The new HAA form isn't yet available, but we can start that process at least.


R/s,
Spam



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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 963
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2017, 03:23:37 PM »


"2.6.2.5. Uniforms. In cold weather, commanders and activity directors will prioritize protection
from the elements over adherence to CAP uniform standards.
"

So that closes that particular discussion.


In no way does this new section close discussion of compliance with CAPM 39-1.


What this says to me is that activity directors should prioritize member safety outdoors over adherence to a specific uniform of the day (UOD). Examples of applying this could include:

  • Allow members to have the freedom to travel to/report in/depart while wearing warm and safe civilian clothing, rather than require members to purchase USAF style outer wear, or violate existing and approved 39-1 prohibitions against mixing USAF style and civilian clothing. Members can then wear the UOD at the activity.
  • Relaxing adherence to a specified uniform of the day, to include a wider range of acceptable uniforms (e.g. ABU/BDUs with coat, rather than the less common Class A blues coats, or corporates of varying types for adults over 18).


Read otherwise, as a license to mix civilian clothing with USAF style clothes, this would imply a direct and conscious effort by the CP staff to create disharmony with and undermine CAPM 39-1 provisions on the issue. I don't believe that's the case.  I'm of course open to revisiting the issue should NHQ issue a coordinated revision to 39-1 *(with CAP-USAF concurrence) to eliminate requirements for correct wear of USAF style uniforms without civilian gear.


V/r
Spam


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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 28,072

« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2017, 03:48:30 PM »

There is no issue to "revisit".
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"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Ned
Resident Philosopher

Posts: 2,122

« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2017, 05:49:27 PM »

Typo catch:
"2.6.2.1. Monitoring Weather Conditions. When cadet activities take place outside a military installation and temperatures are forecast to be below 45O F [sic], commanders and activity directors will monitor the wind chill temperature at least every 3 hours".

Awesome. At 450 degrees Farenheit, at least the injury forms we're filling out won't ignite.   >:D

That's interesting, but I think it is more of a display / font issue than a typo. 

When I look at it, I see "below 45o ".  Which is I'm pretty sure is correct.  I'm guessing that it is displaying differently for you, with the superscript "o" showing either as a capital "O" or a 0, but can't guess the reason.

Is it displaying oddly for anyone else?



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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: CAPR 60-1, 99 Lead Balloons
 


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