Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 17, 2017, 11:40:24 AM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: NHQ to begin rescreening members
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  All Print
Author Topic: NHQ to begin rescreening members  (Read 5572 times)
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,085
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2017, 10:30:29 PM »

Well, aren't you just a ray of sunshine. :(
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
jeders
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,013

« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2017, 11:04:46 PM »

Haven't they been rescreening CD folks every so often.  I'm sure I remember doing that at least once, but I haven't been qualified in that for 5+ years now.

Every 4 years you have to submit a new Form 83.
Logged

If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,886

« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2017, 12:11:07 AM »



Did you not read the letter?

CAP has engaged the services of a reputable 3rd party (you know, reputable. Hopefully moreso than Equifax?) that does this kind of rescreening for lots of organizations.  I have a friend whose son, a former cadet, does this for a living (probably not for the same outfit). Its a lot of public records searches, 3rd party database searches, law enforcement stuff, etc.

I'm pretty sure that unless they need to confirm that you're Anthony Soprano Jr and not Sr, you're not even going to get a phone call.

I did.

Volunteer Verification is owned by Sterling Infosystems. A Google search on this company doesn't give me warm fuzzy feelings on the way they do their business. Plenty of complaints and lawsuits from both paying clients as well as those investigated for faulty reporting, illegal search procedures and fraudulent billing. This includes a number of class action lawsuits directed against them.

Oh, by the way, your personal information, including your SSN, will be processed by Sterling employees located in India. They actually closed a 600 man office here in the US and relocated offshore a few years ago.

NHQ would be better served re-running everyone's fingerprint cards every 5 years than this.

Considering that the Office of Personnel Management lost my personal information I am not that concerned with these clowns.
Logged
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 482

« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2017, 06:36:45 PM »

Haven't they been rescreening CD folks every so often.  I'm sure I remember doing that at least once, but I haven't been qualified in that for 5+ years now.

Yes, every 4-5 years (don't recall for sure).  BUT, the person being re-screened wasn't sent a link...  They signed on to eServices or completed a hard copy background doc.  BIG difference from clinking on a link that appears in the email inbox...  Very big difference!
Logged
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 482

« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2017, 06:44:19 PM »




Did you not read the letter?

CAP has engaged the services of a reputable 3rd party (you know, reputable. Hopefully moreso than Equifax?) that does this kind of rescreening for lots of organizations.  I have a friend whose son, a former cadet, does this for a living (probably not for the same outfit). Its a lot of public records searches, 3rd party database searches, law enforcement stuff, etc.

I'm pretty sure that unless they need to confirm that you're Anthony Soprano Jr and not Sr, you're not even going to get a phone call.

I read the letter.  "Re-screening" has lots of meanings.  It can mean updating PPI, it can mean a simple online check of various db, it can be like the FAA's MedExpress where new information is provided that is then cross checked for veracity.  Every time my personal data is handled, shuttled through a contractor, etc. then there's a risk to ME (or anyone else subjected to the process) that is largely borne solely by the individual.  I'm sure we're all aware that to date no agency or company has accepted in any meaningful way adequate responsibility for data losses - no matter how egregious their cyber security flaws.  Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, data handling by either the Federal Government or commercial enterprises to date fails to engender warm fuzzy feelings, and certainly not a lot of faith that "lapses" will be avoided.  They say "oops", and move on.   If you are satisfied with the performance of the VA, OPM, Equifax, etc. etc. etc. then have at it.  Clink on all the links sent across unsecured email.  But, please don't criticize by snarky comments those who, based on abundant evidence, prefer secure servers, hardcopy, or other meaningful measures to avoid pfshing, spoofing, etc. should CAP use unsecured email as a means to conduct all or portions of  this 'rescreen' exercise.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 06:55:39 PM by Live2Learn » Logged
ßτε
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 781
Unit: PCR-CA-205

« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2017, 06:46:06 PM »

Haven't they been rescreening CD folks every so often.  I'm sure I remember doing that at least once, but I haven't been qualified in that for 5+ years now.

Yes, every 4-5 years (don't recall for sure).  BUT, the person being re-screened wasn't sent a link...  They signed on to eServices or completed a hard copy background doc.  BIG difference from clinking on a link that appears in the email inbox...  Very big difference!
What's this link you keep mentioning?
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 28,082

« Reply #26 on: October 25, 2017, 06:52:30 PM »

Are you expecting a link from somewhere?
No one is getting anything, NHQ didn't even have to notify people.
Logged

"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

jeders
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,013

« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2017, 09:35:50 AM »




Did you not read the letter?

CAP has engaged the services of a reputable 3rd party (you know, reputable. Hopefully moreso than Equifax?) that does this kind of rescreening for lots of organizations.  I have a friend whose son, a former cadet, does this for a living (probably not for the same outfit). Its a lot of public records searches, 3rd party database searches, law enforcement stuff, etc.

I'm pretty sure that unless they need to confirm that you're Anthony Soprano Jr and not Sr, you're not even going to get a phone call.

I read the letter.  "Re-screening" has lots of meanings.  It can mean updating PPI, it can mean a simple online check of various db, it can be like the FAA's MedExpress where new information is provided that is then cross checked for veracity.  Every time my personal data is handled, shuttled through a contractor, etc. then there's a risk to ME (or anyone else subjected to the process) that is largely borne solely by the individual.  I'm sure we're all aware that to date no agency or company has accepted in any meaningful way adequate responsibility for data losses - no matter how egregious their cyber security flaws.  Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, data handling by either the Federal Government or commercial enterprises to date fails to engender warm fuzzy feelings, and certainly not a lot of faith that "lapses" will be avoided.  They say "oops", and move on.   If you are satisfied with the performance of the VA, OPM, Equifax, etc. etc. etc. then have at it.  Clink on all the links sent across unsecured email.  But, please don't criticize by snarky comments those who, based on abundant evidence, prefer secure servers, hardcopy, or other meaningful measures to avoid pfshing, spoofing, etc. should CAP use unsecured email as a means to conduct all or portions of  this 'rescreen' exercise.

First off, there is no link. All of the re-screening goes on behind the scenes where we will likely never see any effect of it.

Second, hard copy documents get lost and mishandled all the time. They are in no way more secure than electronic means.
Logged

If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 694
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2017, 03:14:42 PM »

Are you expecting a link from somewhere?
No one is getting anything, NHQ didn't even have to notify people.

I’m not so sure about that.

Fair Credit Reporting Act requires authorization before a third-party background service does a “computerized records check.” (I won’t refer to it as a “background check” because it really isn’t one. It is PART of one).

I don’t remember signing anything when I joined CAP that authorizes on-going record checks by third party vendors.

That said, it really isn’t hard to set that up. A link in an email that takes you to the third party site. Click a couple of boxes and send.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Toad1168
Forum Regular

Posts: 131
Unit: NCR-MO-110

« Reply #29 on: October 26, 2017, 03:34:59 PM »

CAPR 39-2

3.2.2.2. Members may be re-screened periodically as required by National Headquarters
or upon request of unit commander of assignment or commanders of higher echelons with
reason to question a member's continued eligibility. Members late renewing 180 days after their
renewal date must submit a new FBI fingerprint card (see paragraph 6.2.). All active members
must notify the National Headquarters Screening Division (CAP/DP) of changes in the information
originally submitted on their CAPF 12 within 30 days of any change that might make the individual
ineligible for membership (i.e., changes in residency status, military status, arrests, etc.). Upon
receipt of the updated information, National Headquarters will follow the established procedures
for reviewing background information to determine continued membership eligibility. National
Headquarters will notify the wing commander concerned of the pending membership eligibility
review. A new fingerprint card may be requested by National Headquarters if necessary to
complete the review process. Failure to properly notify National Headquarters of any change in
information shall be grounds for termination of membership.
Logged
Mike Toedebusch
Spaatz Award 1168 - 1 June 1993
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 28,082

« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2017, 04:33:07 PM »

Anyone with "privacy concerns" who is an active Twitspace user, is just amusing,
and they are usually the most vocal in places, you know like TwitSpace, that are meaningless but loud.

The same goes for anyone who uses a bank, credit card, email, the internet, a cell phone,
electricity, natural gas, has a driver's license, a job, a house, apartment, etc.

Your "concerns" are noted...along with your current geolocation, device identifier, anniversary,
favorite color, political leaning, current mood, Netflix history, and naiveté.
Logged

"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,686
Unit: of issue

« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2017, 05:09:35 PM »

CAPR 39-2

3.2.2.2. Members may be re-screened periodically as required by National Headquarters

Or the statement just above your signature on the CAPF12:
Quote
In applying for membership in Civil Air Patrol, I hereby execute the oath on the reverse side and understand and agree as follows: (a) To permit CAP to use my Social Security Number in my membership records as an identification number and to obtain background information from any person, corporation, or government agency (local, state, or federal) to be used to determine membership eligibility; (b) that if my membership eligibility is questioned, I will be notified and provided the reasons; (c) that prior to a final decision on my eligibility, I will have an opportunity to submit documentary evidence on my behalf; and (d) that CAP membership is a privilege and not a right and CAP’s decision on my membership eligibility is final.

Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Briank
Member

Posts: 61
Unit: GLR-OH-064

« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2017, 05:29:51 PM »

A new fingerprint card may be requested by National Headquarters if necessary to
complete the review process.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that.  It was an expensive and time sucking royal pain to get the fingerprint card done.  I'd prefer to not go through all that hassle again!
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 28,082

« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2017, 05:44:19 PM »

You can't get it done at the local PD?

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone in 18 years in my AOR having to pay for printing.
Logged

"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,686
Unit: of issue

« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2017, 05:55:43 PM »

Happens here. Most depts charge for prints.

We have a fingerprint kit donated (a legit one) and 4-5 of our seniors are trained in how to roll prints.

Only 1 reject in 3 years
Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 28,082

« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2017, 05:58:11 PM »

Happens here. Most depts charge for prints.

That's a stone bummer, my town will do it free for anyone, as do most of the surrounding.

I've even heard recently that some are doing Livescan prints and then printing out the
prints onto the card.  Cool.

A couple units here have their own kits as well, as long as you know how to do it, it doesn't matter the source.

Logged

"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

sardak
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,144

« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2017, 07:12:21 PM »

^^^ "Science in a Flash," "Experiment Kit"
Maybe we can add this to the list of STEM kits we get through National, train the cadets and have them do all the fingerprinting for no bucks.

Mike
Logged
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 694
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2017, 10:39:36 PM »

CAPR 39-2

3.2.2.2. Members may be re-screened periodically as required by National Headquarters

Or the statement just above your signature on the CAPF12:
Quote
In applying for membership in Civil Air Patrol, I hereby execute the oath on the reverse side and understand and agree as follows: (a) To permit CAP to use my Social Security Number in my membership records as an identification number and to obtain background information from any person, corporation, or government agency (local, state, or federal) to be used to determine membership eligibility; (b) that if my membership eligibility is questioned, I will be notified and provided the reasons; (c) that prior to a final decision on my eligibility, I will have an opportunity to submit documentary evidence on my behalf; and (d) that CAP membership is a privilege and not a right and CAP’s decision on my membership eligibility is final.

I’d bet that the CAPF 12 language did not take into account the many changes to the FCRA.

I’m wary of CAP going ahead with the database records searches without first complying with the FCRA provisions and taking the unbelievably simple step of having people click on an email link to give permission for the search. If somebody objects to giving permission, fine, 2B them. But placing reliance on a long ago signing of an even longer ago form as being “authorization” sounds to me like inviting trouble.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 28,082

« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2017, 10:58:15 PM »

There's nothing in a CAP BGC that violates FCRA, and just because a document is "old"
doesn't mean it doesn't apply.

Does UCMJ no longer apply because a member raised his hand "a long time ago"?

How about a mortgage?  29 years in can you say "meh, not so much.."?

And regardless, it's not "long ago", since members re-attest to the oath, including
complying with the regs (i.e. 39-2), every year, which means "long ago" is less then 12 months.



Logged

"The man who does more than he is paid for will soon be paid for more than he does." - Napoleon Hill.
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,327
Unit: Classified

« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2017, 11:08:43 PM »

Does UCMJ no longer apply because a member raised his hand "a long time.

That depends and even the UCMJ has statute of limitations on offenses... i can tell you that i can seperate tomorrow and the UCMJ would no longer apply to me even though I raised my hand a long time ago. 
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  All Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: NHQ to begin rescreening members
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.339 seconds with 20 queries.