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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: The AFA Prep School "Incident"...
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Author Topic: The AFA Prep School "Incident"...  (Read 5223 times)
Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 128
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2017, 04:03:42 AM »

Wild Blue Yonder
A generalís overwrought response to a race hoax at the Air Force Academy was off-base.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/wild-blue-yonder-15576.html
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FW
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,145

« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2017, 10:33:40 AM »

Wild Blue Yonder
A generalís overwrought response to a race hoax at the Air Force Academy was off-base.

https://www.city-journal.org/html/wild-blue-yonder-15576.html

Thanks for stating an opinion which is not shared by many others.  This "hoax" was made by an individual who did not belong at the Prep School.  The Commandant made a statement, which I happen to agree with, and his follow up makes sense to all except those who do not understand the difference between Corps and Corpse.  There isn't much more to say on this topic, however I am disappointed we have members here on CT and members in CAP who don't understand the real meaning of the General's statements. 
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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 128
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2017, 11:47:03 AM »

Thanks for stating an opinion which is not shared by many others.
In fact many do agree.
This "hoax" was made by an individual who did not belong at the Prep School. 
"Hoax"? It was a hate crime, not a hoax.
The Commandant made a statement, which I happen to agree with, ...
Indeed he did, addressed to all cadets and prep school students. In the absence of any facts or investigation. And while I agree with WHAT he said, how he said it was frankly disturbing, political and apparently designed to appeal to the media.
... except those who do not understand the difference between Corps and Corpse.  T
Snarky eh? Lame though and lacking any respect for those who disagree with you.
There isn't much more to say on this topic, however I am disappointed we have members here on CT and members in CAP who don't understand the real meaning of the General's statements.
I'm sure you will say no more then. And the "real meaning" of the General's statement is actually quite clear. I am disappointed in the lack of respect shown by those who think they get to define everyone else's opinions. I am also grossly disappointed at the lack of criminal prosecution of the "hoaxer". YMMV.
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FW
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,145

« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2017, 12:03:07 PM »

^I actually like my "snarky" comment.  Thanks for sharing. I agree with you; the General's comments are quite clear. You, sir, just wish to attach different meaning to it.  I have no problem opining on your comments. It's one of the perks of contributing to CAPTalk. 
And to be a little clearer; your comments show a lack of respect for our Core Values, the Core Values of the Air Force, and a deep misunderstanding of the Constitution of this glorious country.  I have no idea who you are or where you come from, but I am comfortable with my views, and to whom I give respect.  Enjoy your day and have a great holiday season.  I hope the coal you receive from Santa is put to good use...
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Flying Pig
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,041

« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2017, 01:19:32 PM »

I often sigh and shake my head on pretty much anything related to racism.  I believe that for the most part people dont really care until someone external of the group finds a reason to use it for gain.  Thats what the cadet did in this case when he felt the need to spark a race war for some reason.

Ive watched the videos many times and in the end came up with this conclusion.  Without all the media, the cameras clicking and the elevated tone of voice and sense of urgency, Id bet you could print out the transcript of his speech and year from now recite it on a character development meeting night in a different tone of voice and everyone would nod and say "Well Yeah, of course" and nobody would walk out having felt attacked.  By the time people heard this speech, they had already taken their respective corners like boxers in a ring.  The general even admitted to the harsh tone he used when he said "we would be tone deaf to not take into consideration whats going on in our country" (or close to that... .2:08 mark)  So he had a legitimate message of "Are you FREAKING kidding me right now???" to use some street slang.  That was no secret. 

In the end.... a cadet of one race attempted to use racism to pit people against each other for an agenda, which in many cases, he managed to do.  Even with people who have never had any affiliation with the military or the USAF Academy.  I don't have any idea if the guy every said why he did it, or if he ever has, but for some reason he felt sparking racism would somehow benefit him.

If I went to work and someone wrote (insert racial phrase) on someones locker, I would imagine my Sheriff would probably give the same speech about the core values of the office, and state that "If this doesn't bother you, get out." Later if it was determined that officer wrote it himself because he knew he was about to get fired and thought this would detract away from his termination, then yes.... Id be pretty torqued that you tried to pit people in the agency against each other to create a diversion.   

Ill guarantee you this, even knowing its now a hoax, there were friendships lost, there were things people said to each other that will not be forgotten easily if ever, there are people who are now suspicious of each other because of positions that were taken on the issue, there are people who believed in the institution of the USAFA and the military who, even if for a moment, felt like it was all just a big illusion they had bought into.  I was just an infantry Sgt, I had my doubts about its legitimacy because after 8 years in the grunts in the Marines and the Army, Ive seen people who were complete racists get "handled" when we were in the field.  And when I say handled...it was checked fast.  Many times it was a simple "Look here A-- H---"  One case, I recall a Marine made a few comments and about an hour later he came limping back from a bad fall in the dark while looking for the porta-potty with a completely different outlook on his brother dark greens.   And this was in the mid-late 90s.  Not that I advocate violence on these issues... usually....  So even to me, there was a small part that said "C'mon guys..... the military is so far beyond society on this issue"  And absolutely I smiled when I learned my gut was right. 

Simply, people made inference about what he said based on what side they had already taken on the issue. Because of his speech, Im sure people of one group felt vindicated and Im sure people of another group felt attacked. I say group not race, because there were people of all races on both sides.   When the truth came out, those feelings probably switched, but in the speech he never even told the listeners what races were involved.  But did it end with the hoax admission?  No, because now we have the gloating phase. "HA!....see... I told you it was a hoax"  followed by the other group. "Well.... when we didnt know it was a hoax, you said ______ so now we are no longer friends you jerk". 

So in the end, it wasnt really a "hoax".  It actually did happen.  A cadet decided to reach out and employ a tactic, racism accusations in this case, to accomplish a goal regardless of what that goal was and people bit down and held on.   If a black guy sets a cross on fire in front of a black church to start a race war, that wasnt a hoax.  That was a tactic intended to bring a response.  That same speech would apply if the Mayor came out to address it.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 01:25:46 PM by Flying Pig » Logged
Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 128
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2017, 02:54:46 PM »

^I actually like my "snarky" comment.  Thanks for sharing. I agree with you; the General's comments are quite clear. You, sir, just wish to attach different meaning to it.  I have no problem opining on your comments. It's one of the perks of contributing to CAPTalk. 
And to be a little clearer; your comments show a lack of respect for our Core Values, the Core Values of the Air Force, and a deep misunderstanding of the Constitution of this glorious country.  I have no idea who you are or where you come from, but I am comfortable with my views, and to whom I give respect.  Enjoy your day and have a great holiday season.  I hope the coal you receive from Santa is put to good use...
You represent the "my way or the highway" attitude of no respect wing. Got it. May you have a merry and blessed Christmas.
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LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,711
Unit: Earth

« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2017, 03:06:05 PM »

As this topic, and subsequent replies, won't really settle anything or change anyone's opinions, why do not we just leave at "Happy Holidays and Happy Christmas."
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 03:10:52 PM by LSThiker » Logged
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 475

« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2017, 03:09:10 PM »

I often sigh and shake my head on pretty much anything related to racism.  I believe that for the most part people dont really care until someone external of the group finds a reason to use it for gain.  Thats what the cadet did in this case when he felt the need to spark a race war for some reason.

...

In the end.... a cadet of one race attempted to use racism to pit people against each other for an agenda, which in many cases, he managed to do.  ...

Ill guarantee you this, even knowing its now a hoax, there were friendships lost, there were things people said to each other that will not be forgotten easily if ever, there are people who are now suspicious of each other because of positions that were taken on the issue, there are people who believed in the institution of the USAFA and the military who, even if for a moment, felt like it was all just a big illusion they had bought into.

...

Simply, people made inference about what he said based on what side they had already taken on the issue. 
...   When the truth came out, ... did it end with the hoax admission?  No, because now we have the gloating phase. "HA!....see... I told you it was a hoax"  followed by the other group. "Well.... when we didnt know it was a hoax, you said ______ so now we are no longer friends you jerk". 

So in the end, it wasnt really a "hoax".  It actually did happen.  A cadet decided to reach out and employ a tactic, racism accusations in this case, to accomplish a goal regardless of what that goal was and people bit down and held on.   If a black guy sets a cross on fire in front of a black church to start a race war, that wasnt a hoax.  That was a tactic intended to bring a response. 
... which it did.

Nicely summarized. 
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,080
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2017, 03:15:37 PM »

And we're done here. It was going OK until the personal attacks started. Keep it civil folks.

Click.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Flying Pig
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,041

« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2017, 03:22:46 PM »

Geeez.. we cant lock a thread right after I put so much thought into my post  :-[
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,080
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2017, 08:18:02 PM »

Geeez.. we cant lock a thread right after I put so much thought into my post  :-[

You made an excellent, well thought out post. Some of the other folks weren't so considerate. On top of that, I got distracted, and didn't actually lock the post, until now.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: The AFA Prep School "Incident"...
 


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