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Author Topic: The AFA Prep School "Incident"...  (Read 5225 times)
NIN
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« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2017, 03:15:52 PM »

"We would also be tone deaf not to think about the backdrop of what is going on in our country," Silveria told cadets, referencing the recent violence in Charlottesville, Va., Ferguson, Mo., and controversial protests in the NFL in which dozens of players have knelt during the national anthem.

The clear tone and tenor was that there was a racist in the midst and that was wrong.

And that was inaccurate? 

Is having a racist in your midst, especially in a uniformed service, not wrong?



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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Cicero
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Unit: TBKS

« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2017, 03:46:28 PM »

And that was inaccurate? 
In essence, yes. The perp was not a white racist. This was a hoax crime not a hate crime.

Is having a racist in your midst, especially in a uniformed service, not wrong?
Absolutely. But the Honor Code is the issue, not race. In my humble opinion, at least.

BTW I hate the two dimensional nature of conversations like these. We are probably substantially on the same page regards the big picture.
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NIN
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« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2017, 03:52:53 PM »

I'm sure we are both on the same page.

I agree on the honor code issue.

I also think its a racism issue, hoax or not.

Were I to call the cops and report that I got "beat up and robbed by a couple black guys," and it was later found out that, no, I made the whole thing up out of whole cloth, am I a liar, a racist, or both?

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Cicero
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Posts: 128
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2017, 05:02:47 PM »

Were I to call the cops and report that I got "beat up and robbed by a couple black guys," and it was later found out that, no, I made the whole thing up out of whole cloth, am I a liar, a racist, or both?
Sadly, in today's culture that depends on your race.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2017, 05:45:31 PM »

This was a 100% win for the general and the USAFA, trying to make it into something else fails.

Someone tried to stir things up through epithets intended to intimidate. One could conjecture the
intent was to try and insinuate that USAFA was an institutionally racist organization and hoping for a lukewarm
response that could further an agenda.  It literally doesn't matter who did it, it was done.

The direct, unequivocal response showed the world that these sorts of attempts to intimidate would not
be tolerated, and in fact would be met with swift, immediate justice, something sorely lacking in the
world of the "Daily Outrage" and "click-based advocacy".

Not only did the person in question fail in their attempt to intimidate, or stir controversy, they showed themselves
to be both troubled or misguided at best, and the act was ultimately counter to the initial purpose.

Painting it any other way is some weird attempt to politicize it beyond the scope, and is a waste of time,
pursued by those with an agenda outside the reality of what occurred.

Discussing it here seems to be an attempt to somehow connect it to CAP, which it isn't an anyway,
beyond the tangential and circumstantial connection to CAP's parent service.

Beyond a lesson in leading from the front, what's the point here?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 05:55:03 PM by Eclipse » Logged

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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

CAPLTC
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« Reply #45 on: November 08, 2017, 10:06:30 PM »

I hope the CG at least readdresses the cadets and apologizes for accusing them of racism based on this hoax.

Technically the General's comments could have been intended for the lying jerk who used the all too common SJW hoax... 
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jeders
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Posts: 2,013

« Reply #46 on: November 09, 2017, 09:54:00 AM »

The perp was not a white racist.

So that makes it ok?

Quote
This was a hoax crime not a hate crime.

No, all crimes are hate crimes. The "perp" had hate in his heart somewhere when he did this. He knew what he was doing was wrong and was called out for it by the general.
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Johnny Yuma
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« Reply #47 on: November 09, 2017, 05:46:48 PM »

I hope the CG at least readdresses the cadets and apologizes for accusing them of racism based on this hoax.

Technically the General's comments could have been intended for the lying jerk who used the all too common SJW hoax...

If that were the case then why have the entire Academy stand down for an all-hands lecture to address a racial incident that didn't happen while ignoring the integrity and Honor Code violations that did? That makes zero sense.

It would have made far more sense to wait until the doer was identified and addressed the Academy on the importance of respect and the immense damage that occurs when incidents involving race and/or race based hoaxes happen.
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" Skip a bit, brother."
 
"And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. "Three" shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. "Four" shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two, execpting that thou then goest on to three. Five is RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuffit. Amen."

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zippy
Recruit

Posts: 38

« Reply #48 on: November 09, 2017, 08:06:31 PM »

I'm hoping that the prep school determined the writings were legit and ID'd the doer's before the General made his statement. FWIW around here most every racial incident like this has been determined to have been a  hoax or overblown out of proportion by design.

The most recent was a Sukkah put up by some Jewish students at Kansas State for Sukkot was destroyed. The university president, ex- USAF General Richard Myers, made a big stink over it being an act of antisemitism before they discovered that it was actually a windstorm that knocked it down. Oops...

Johnny Yuma got it right. A public apology is owed to the cadets for being publicly berated.
Check the date of the above quote, way back in October.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 08:15:10 PM by zippy » Logged
abdsp51
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« Reply #49 on: November 09, 2017, 08:11:02 PM »

Johnny Yuma got it right. A public apology is owed to the cadets for being publicly berated.

Doesn't work that way.
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Cicero
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« Reply #50 on: November 09, 2017, 09:16:08 PM »

Quote
Johnny Yuma got it right. A public apology is owed to the cadets for being publicly berated.
Check the date of the above quote, way back in October.

Yep. Not gonna happen, but yep.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2017, 09:43:51 PM by Cicero » Logged
Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #51 on: November 09, 2017, 09:23:08 PM »

No he does not.

In organizations the leaders need to address some situations that goes against the core. The leader has to take action addressing everyone to create conscience of the importance.

The commander saw some action(s) that in his view was not being given the importance he thought should have been given.

He addressed it, by pointing at all.

No apologies. Otherwise he would appear not only weak but reduce the importance of the issue in other's eyes.

No apologies. Ninguna excusa. Nyet. Nein.

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Cicero
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Posts: 128
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #52 on: November 09, 2017, 09:45:59 PM »

The commander saw some action(s) that in his view was not being given the importance he thought should have been given.
That is one opinion. Johnny got it right though. Further, another perspective can argue that the General saw a political opportunity to get cred from the hard left and took that, using (rather cynically) in that view, the entire Cadet Corps and prep school student body.
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Airplane girl
Member

Posts: 58

« Reply #53 on: November 09, 2017, 09:57:59 PM »

I don't want to get too involved in this, but Gen Silviera did respond to finding out that it was a hoax.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/08/us/air-force-academy-racist-message-trnd/index.html

"Regardless of the circumstances under which those words were written, they were written, and that deserved to be addressed," he said. "You can never overemphasize the need for a culture of dignity and respect and those who don't understand those concepts aren't welcome here."

And I don't think he needs to apologize for anything, since all he did was make it very clear that students knew that racism would not be tolerated. Even though this one instance of racism was a hoax, that doesn't mean that racism and other forms of discrimination aren't issues that need to be addressed.
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Dank Meme Master
PHall
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« Reply #54 on: November 09, 2017, 10:08:09 PM »

I'm hoping that the prep school determined the writings were legit and ID'd the doer's before the General made his statement. FWIW around here most every racial incident like this has been determined to have been a  hoax or overblown out of proportion by design.

The most recent was a Sukkah put up by some Jewish students at Kansas State for Sukkot was destroyed. The university president, ex- USAF General Richard Myers, made a big stink over it being an act of antisemitism before they discovered that it was actually a windstorm that knocked it down. Oops...

Johnny Yuma got it right. A public apology is owed to the cadets for being publicly berated.
Check the date of the above quote, way back in October.

You're kidding, right? Because if you aren't then you know nothing about how the military world works.
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Cicero
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Posts: 128
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2017, 09:55:30 AM »

What the Air Force Academy hate crime hoax teaches us about the mainstream media and race
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/11/09/what-air-force-academy-hate-crime-hoax-teaches-us-about-mainstream-media-and-race.html

"As a black graduate of West Point, currently serving as an Army officer, I can say from my own experience that the military academies and the U.S. military are not racist institutions. Yet one unverified report by a student who concocted a false report about racism at the Air Force Academy fed the belief that racism directed against black Americans is everywhere in our society. "

(From the article.)

« Last Edit: November 10, 2017, 03:28:26 PM by Cicero » Logged
Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 475

« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2017, 10:07:22 AM »

What the Air Force Academy hate crime hoax teaches us about the mainstream media and race
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/11/09/what-air-force-academy-hate-crime-hoax-teaches-us-about-mainstream-media-and-race.html

Last paragraph in the Fox article bears repeating:

"Perhaps it’s time that America starts focusing on what binds us together instead of what tears us apart. In the complex and uncertain times that we live in, our country would benefit so much more from a spirit of unity than the media’s same old divisive narrative. "

As a card carrying optimist with a cynicism problem, I fear the media's profit motive will foil any retreat from the 'same old divisive narrative'.
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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 128
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2017, 01:20:06 PM »


Last paragraph in the Fox article bears repeating:

"Perhaps it’s time that America starts focusing on what binds us together instead of what tears us apart. In the complex and uncertain times that we live in, our country would benefit so much more from a spirit of unity than the media’s same old divisive narrative. "

Agreed!
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Spam
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« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2017, 02:08:35 PM »

What the Air Force Academy hate crime hoax teaches us about the mainstream media and race
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/11/09/what-air-force-academy-hate-crime-hoax-teaches-us-about-mainstream-media-and-race.html

As a black graduate of West Point, currently serving as an Army officer, I can say from my own experience that the military academies and the U.S. military are not racist institutions. Yet one unverified report by a student who concocted a false report about racism at the Air Force Academy fed the belief that racism directed against black Americans is everywhere in our society.

You may want to mod that, Cicero - it looks like you're making that statement yourself, rather than pasting a quote (unless that was your fox article)?

R/s,
Spam
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Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 128
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2017, 03:28:49 PM »

What the Air Force Academy hate crime hoax teaches us about the mainstream media and race
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/11/09/what-air-force-academy-hate-crime-hoax-teaches-us-about-mainstream-media-and-race.html

As a black graduate of West Point, currently serving as an Army officer, I can say from my own experience that the military academies and the U.S. military are not racist institutions. Yet one unverified report by a student who concocted a false report about racism at the Air Force Academy fed the belief that racism directed against black Americans is everywhere in our society.

You may want to mod that, Cicero - it looks like you're making that statement yourself, rather than pasting a quote (unless that was your fox article)?

R/s,
Spam

Done, thanks!
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