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Author Topic: American Made Movie Trailer Turns into a rabbit hole.  (Read 2328 times)
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 28,069

« on: June 06, 2017, 12:02:42 AM »

So this started as a TMFTA whine comment about a reference in the movie trailer to Barry Seal being
 "...top of your class in Civil Air Patrol", which of course, isn't really a "thing".

Warning big-boy language and situations:


And it turned into a rabbit hole that links back to everyone's favorite conspiracy and CAP's most infamous former member, LHO.

http://www.nndb.com/people/140/000129750/
"In 1952, while still a teenager, Barry Seal enlisted with the Civil Air Patrol in Baton Rouge. Shortly after joining he participated in a joint training exercise with the Patrol's New Orleans unit, where he met Lee Harvey Oswald. Seal's association with Oswald and his flight instructor David Ferrie, both known to have been involved in the assassination of JFK, make his claim to have flown the getaway plane on 22 November 1963 entirely plausible. Seal's involvement with the CIA probably began shortly after he joined the CAP, but the first evidence dates to 1962. Seal's flight records are mysteriously blank for the period of time corresponding exactly to the CIA's Louisiana-based training of exiles and mercenaries for the second invasion of Guatemala.

http://www.walterlippmann.com/docs184.html
"On July 16, 1955, his 16th birthday, Seal got his pilot's license. Two weeks later, he boarded a U.S. Air Force plane for a two-week summer camp with the Civil Air Patrol at Barksdale Air Force Base in Shreveport, Louisiana. There he came under the command of David Ferrie, and met fellow cadet Lee Harvey Oswald, two principal figures in the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

John Odom was a childhood friend. "One Friday, I got a call from Barry asking if I'd like to fly to Lacombe. We left about 5:30 AM," says Odom. At the Lacombe airport, David Ferrie pointed out 50 boxes on the runway. Flying back to Baton Rouge, Seal told Odom the boxes were weapons, and Ferrie was paying him $400 a week -- $2,500 a week in today's dollars -- to deliver them. "How'd you like to make that kind of money?" asked Seal, who was still a high-school senior.

Two years later, he was making $2,000 per flight, carrying weapons into Cuba for Fidel Castro's revolution [Cuba-L Note: the counterrevolution]. Joe Nettles, his second flight instructor, believes Seal was the best pilot in the US at the time. One thing we know for sure: After falling into David Ferrie's orbit, Seal suddenly became very secretive."


So, if nothing else, add another name to CAP's rogues gallery.

Enjoy the rabbit hole, it's cozy down here...
http://www.madcowprod.com/2013/11/20/barry-seal-the-cias-secret-camp-in-lacombe-the-jfk-assassination/
http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKseal.htm
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3532216/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Made_(film)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Seal

...also there's a website called "Wikispooks", so there's that.
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Mordecai
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Posts: 1,092
Unit: SI

« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2017, 06:44:13 PM »

If CAP was that fast of a gateway to the CIA I'd sure be on a different career path today...
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Майор Хаткевич
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Posts: 6,075
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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2017, 10:27:44 AM »

If CAP was that fast of a gateway to the CIA I'd sure be on a different career path today...


No kidding. I.even.know.Russian.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,080
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2017, 04:38:09 PM »

На здрова
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
LMSeal
Recruit

Posts: 5
Unit: 22037

« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2017, 11:59:01 PM »

Well, I'm Barry Seal's second cousin and somewhat a student of his personal history.  I didn't know him well personally, not as well as other family members.  I was a CAP member from 1980 to 1986 in Mississippi.  I understand most all the records from Barry, LHO and Dave Ferrie have conveniently been 'lost' or stolen.

Dan Hopsicker has recorded interviews with those familiar with Barry's early involvement in CAP.  It is very clear he began working for the CIA when he was in high school or shortly thereafter (Castro rebels, Bay of Pigs, Operation 40, Air America, Iran-Contra).  The people in Hopsicker's interviews really have no reason to lie about their memories.  There may be a lot of smoke there, but I'd same some fire as well.





Larry Seal
LMSeal@aol.com
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LMSeal
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2017, 12:18:44 AM »

Full Barry Seal documentary here


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abdsp51
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2017, 06:01:17 PM »

LMSeal you seem awfully bent on glamorizing a criminal....
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Mitchell 1969
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Posts: 692
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2017, 10:17:19 PM »


I was a CAP member from 1980 to 1986 in Mississippi.  I understand most all the records from Barry, LHO and Dave Ferrie have conveniently been 'lost' or stolen.

Or...more likely they were simply disposed of properly in accordance with CAP regulations.

There’s no system in place that requires anybody to store files of those people who may one day receive notoriety.

Meaning...nothing to see here.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
LMSeal
Recruit

Posts: 5
Unit: 22037

« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2017, 11:15:38 AM »

LMSeal you seem awfully bent on glamorizing a criminal....

And exactly how have I glamorized this 'criminal'?  I didn't produce the movie or documentary, just reposted info on someone who happened to be a member of CAP.  Maybe this belongs under your 'hysterical history' link.  And BTW, by all indications he was only a criminal at the U.S. government's behest.....
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LMSeal
Recruit

Posts: 5
Unit: 22037

« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2017, 11:29:27 AM »


I was a CAP member from 1980 to 1986 in Mississippi.  I understand most all the records from Barry, LHO and Dave Ferrie have conveniently been 'lost' or stolen.

Or...more likely they were simply disposed of properly in accordance with CAP regulations.

There’s no system in place that requires anybody to store files of those people who may one day receive notoriety.

Meaning...nothing to see here.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Probably properly disposed of, not sure what the regs say on record retention but obviously designed to make sure no poo-poo is left smeared on any unit or wing's guidon.
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NIN
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Unit: of issue

« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2017, 01:16:32 PM »

Probably properly disposed of, not sure what the regs say on record retention but obviously designed to make sure no poo-poo is left smeared on any unit or wing's guidon.

Not true.

Record retention for most cadet/senior personnel records has been 5 years for as long as I've been in Civil Air Patrol, and probably MUCH longer.  Admin authorization and participation records are kept for a year after they're cut off.

Sure, some of these records are *actually* disposed of. Sometimes they're not either because the members aren't sure what the regs say on record retention, or nobody was minding the store when it came to cutoff and destruction policies.

Or, you wind up with a member who actually follows the regulations and does what they're told, screens the records annually for retention, etc.

Its actually not a conspiracy.   Its so you don't have massive and cumbersome file drawers full of useless paper to drown in. 



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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,326
Unit: Classified

« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2017, 05:00:32 PM »

LMSeal you seem awfully bent on glamorizing a criminal....

And exactly how have I glamorized this 'criminal'?  I didn't produce the movie or documentary, just reposted info on someone who happened to be a member of CAP.  Maybe this belongs under your 'hysterical history' link.  And BTW, by all indications he was only a criminal at the U.S. government's behest.....

Did the government put a gun to his head and threaten him? Were loved ones or something else held over his head?  Irregardless of whom it can be alleged "at the xxxx's behest" he knew it was wrong and made the decision.  At the end of the day gun/drug running is a crime in many countries... So yeah criminal.. plenty of "criminal" people have been in CAP and hardly any of them have been glamorized. 
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Luis R. Ramos
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Posts: 2,533

« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2017, 05:18:56 PM »

Be careful when you paint someone the US Government has trained to do things we are not asked normally as a "criminal" lest you end up painting many more in the same guise. I assure you there are many, many more that may have done same but have not come out. And those that participated in Cuba's invasion under the CIA could fall in the same league as this guy...
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abdsp51
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2017, 06:03:42 PM »

Be careful when you paint someone the US Government has trained to do things we are not asked normally as a "criminal" lest you end up painting many more in the same guise. I assure you there are many, many more that may have done same but have not come out. And those that participated in Cuba's invasion under the CIA could fall in the same league as this guy...

Seriously? There is plenty the government trains people to do but that does not mean its legal.  And the failed Bay of Pigs assault.. Please do something better.  So I guess since the government has taught folks to take a life by your terms posted above it's ok for it to be done?
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SarDragon
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Posts: 10,080
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2017, 06:27:33 PM »

Well, unless someone can provide a compelling reason otherwise, we're done here. PM me, or report the post to plead your case.

Click.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: American Made Movie Trailer Turns into a rabbit hole.
 


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