Why don't more cadets attend encampments?

[xray328]

At our last meeting the commander asked how many cadets were going to the wings summer encampment, and only two (mine) raised their hands.  I was pretty surprised none of the other (12 present) were going. You'd think that since it opens the door to NSCA's and leadership opportunities they'd be lining up, especially since encampment assistance funds were available this year.  I was thinking it might be a money issue (why go if I can't afford the special activities) but I see several of the NCSA's also offer scholarships.

What's the key to getting the cadets to attend?

[conca27]

We have the same problem in my squadron. We have around 60 cadets, but only 9 cadets going to encampment this year. I know many cadets in my squadron need encampment, but so few still applied. One of the problems with summer encampments is that they are often in the third or fourth week of July. Many people go on vacation during those weeks, and most NCSA's happen during this time as well. I know that in the past, people have had money problems that have prevented them from going. However, that is no longer an issue with the new Cadet Encampment Assistance Program. One of the main things squadrons should do to get cadets to attend encampment, is to heavily promote it and let all cadets know why it is one of the best CAP activities. You'll still have cadets who just choose not to go, but this will definitely help in the future. I do hope your cadets have a great time and learn a lot, because I certainly did in the two times I went.

[Ned]

I think we can and should do a better job of creating an "encampment expectation" for our troops.  One of the things I admired about the US Army cadet group was the expectation that all of  their cadets (and most leaders) would attend their "encampment equivalent"  every year during their membership.

We've kicked around a few ideas, including scheduling a cadet for encampment as part of their initial membership processing. ("Welcome to CAP, C/AB Jones.  We show you as the newest member of the Anytown Cadet Squadron in Yourwing.  We have scheduled you to attend the Yourwing encampment, currently scheduled for 17-25 JUL 2016.  That's only about ** months away, so you will want to advance your training and education rapidly to be ready!  If a scheduling conflict arises, let your squadron commander know as soon as possible so we can find another encampment slot for you.  Best Regards, Maj Gen Vasquez.")

The addition of a half million dollars of special encampment funding for this summer should help, because it appears that a record number of cadets will be attending and will undoubted report back on all the fun and excitement they experienced.

What are some other ideas?

[xray328]

I love that idea Ned. How do you handle uniforms though? It might be to tough to require a program that forces parents to fork out several hundred dollars in uniforms/gear.  Maybe the PT uniform replaces BDUs for encampments? Or maybe just for new cadets which would also help identify them.

I think an NHQ mandated encampment/ncsa briefing by the squadrons a couple times a year would also help.

[PHall]

I love that idea Ned. How do you handle uniforms though? It might be to tough to require a program that forces parents to fork out several hundred dollars in uniforms/gear.  Maybe the PT uniform replaces BDUs for encampments? Or maybe just for new cadets which would also help identify them.

I think an NHQ mandated encampment/ncsa briefing by the squadrons a couple times a year would also help.

Yeah, doing the O Course in PT shorts does not strike me as a good idea.

[xray328]

True. I'm just not sure how we force parents to pay for encampment gear. It's tough to mandate something like this if cap isn't funding both the encampment and at least requiring only a very basic uniform, especially for new cadets. "Welcome to cap, we know we said its $35 a year but we require you to pay $135 for our camp and $500 (that's in no way an exaggeration) for the uniforms required to go to said camp". Might have to change eliminate things the kids can't do in PT gear ( just thinking here). Or we increase membership fees to $xx(x?) and give each cadet a very basic utility uniform/pair of boots. Of course if we could figure out a way to have a steady stream of AF funding all the better.

How does the US Army cadet program handle it? No need to reinvent the wheel I guess.


Mandating a couple NHQ briefings would be a great place to start though. Professionally published video highlighting how great it is and how much greater the ncsa's are.  How many kids/parents even know ncsa's exist?

[HGjunkie]

How does the US Army cadet program handle it? No need to reinvent the wheel I guess.

From what I've read online they pay upwards of several thousands of dollars to attend their summer training programs.

[xray328]

Good grief...how many cadets are  they able to pull in at that cost?

[jdh]

I know my AFJROTC unit when I was in high school had a policy of having each new incoming cadet pay $150 uniform fee (and we didnt keep the uniforms after we left the program). You were issued 1 set of blues, a service coat and the windbreaker. If you were going to an event that required BDUs you could buy a set from the unit for about $45 (they were uniforms that the Air Force took back from washouts). Any damage you caused to the uniform you were required to cover. The fee was used to cover wear and tear as well as cleaning when the uniform was returned to logistics.

[PHall]

Good grief...how many cadets are  they able to pull in at that cost?

At it's highest you're only talking about a couple of hundred, if that many, cadets in the whole organization.

[xray328]

I know my AFJROTC unit when I was in high school had a policy of having each new incoming cadet pay $150 uniform fee (and we didnt keep the uniforms after we left the program). You were issued 1 set of blues, a service coat and the windbreaker. If you were going to an event that required BDUs you could buy a set from the unit for about $45 (they were uniforms that the Air Force took back from washouts). Any damage you caused to the uniform you were required to cover. The fee was used to cover wear and tear as well as cleaning when the uniform was returned to logistics.

Seems reasonable, I'm sure our AFJROTC unit did something similar. Too bad we aren't using the current AF uniform in that regard, I'm sure it's just a matter of time though.

I understand the need to keep costs down in attracting new cadets, but maybe that's something HQ could consider in the spirit of improving the overall new cadet experience, which would in turn get them eligible for NCSA's. That would possibly lead to higher retention as they'd see CAP isn't just about weekly meetings. The fact that 85% of cadets don't stick around long enough to earn their Mitchell is very unfortunate, seems like thats just when things get exciting (or did for me anyway).

[Tim Day]

I think we can and should do a better job of creating an "encampment expectation" for our troops.  One of the things I admired about the US Army cadet group was the expectation that all of  their cadets (and most leaders) would attend their "encampment equivalent"  every year during their membership.

We've kicked around a few ideas, including scheduling a cadet for encampment as part of their initial membership processing. ("Welcome to CAP, C/AB Jones.  We show you as the newest member of the Anytown Cadet Squadron in Yourwing.  We have scheduled you to attend the Yourwing encampment, currently scheduled for 17-25 JUL 2016.  That's only about ** months away, so you will want to advance your training and education rapidly to be ready!  If a scheduling conflict arises, let your squadron commander know as soon as possible so we can find another encampment slot for you.  Best Regards, Maj Gen Vasquez.")

The addition of a half million dollars of special encampment funding for this summer should help, because it appears that a record number of cadets will be attending and will undoubted report back on all the fun and excitement they experienced.

What are some other ideas?

We saw record numbers this year - we were on track for that even before CEAP - and one reason I suspect is that we advertised that we'd have actual training value versus the former perceived week-long session of purposeless screaming and mindless PT. Having a national curriculum that we can point to and even let people (parents especially) know where they can go to actually read that curriculum is a huge positive.

Having an advanced training flight helped as well. While the ATF didn't directly help with our first-time participation rate, I believe it is going to pay off in the future as cadets return to their squadrons with mid-level NCO skills rather than having repeated a year at encampment as a student. If we can bring up encampment's reputation as a schoolhouse I believe we'll get more support and more interest.

We plan on a wing-wide encampment education campaign this year. We need to do a better job of educating our cadre applicants on the reason for change (we're perceived as fixing something that ain't broke) and we owe potential students and their parents information on the value of encampment and our intentions for providing a true schoolhouse experience where cadets return to their squadrons with useful, standardized skills and a new appreciation for the cadet program.

Financially, if there is any way we can accelerate the CEAP process this year that would be a huge boost. I'm familiar with the programming process here at the Pentagon so I know the challenge. Along those lines, at least in Virginia the all-season cotton BDUs are not optimal for summer wear. We are doing the best we can to encourage folks to bring the cotton/poly blend BDUs, even if they are used.

[MSG Mac]

 May be because too often Cadets and Senior Members describe encampments as "Boot Camp"

[xray328]

I think we can and should do a better job of creating an "encampment expectation" for our troops.  One of the things I admired about the US Army cadet group was the expectation that all of  their cadets (and most leaders) would attend their "encampment equivalent"  every year during their membership.

We've kicked around a few ideas, including scheduling a cadet for encampment as part of their initial membership processing. ("Welcome to CAP, C/AB Jones.  We show you as the newest member of the Anytown Cadet Squadron in Yourwing.  We have scheduled you to attend the Yourwing encampment, currently scheduled for 17-25 JUL 2016.  That's only about ** months away, so you will want to advance your training and education rapidly to be ready!  If a scheduling conflict arises, let your squadron commander know as soon as possible so we can find another encampment slot for you.  Best Regards, Maj Gen Vasquez.")

The addition of a half million dollars of special encampment funding for this summer should help, because it appears that a record number of cadets will be attending and will undoubted report back on all the fun and excitement they experienced.

What are some other ideas?

We saw record numbers this year - we were on track for that even before CEAP - and one reason I suspect is that we advertised that we'd have actual training value versus the former perceived week-long session of purposeless screaming and mindless PT. Having a national curriculum that we can point to and even let people (parents especially) know where they can go to actually read that curriculum is a huge positive.

Having an advanced training flight helped as well. While the ATF didn't directly help with our first-time participation rate, I believe it is going to pay off in the future as cadets return to their squadrons with mid-level NCO skills rather than having repeated a year at encampment as a student. If we can bring up encampment's reputation as a schoolhouse I believe we'll get more support and more interest.

We plan on a wing-wide encampment education campaign this year. We need to do a better job of educating our cadre applicants on the reason for change (we're perceived as fixing something that ain't broke) and we owe potential students and their parents information on the value of encampment and our intentions for providing a true schoolhouse experience where cadets return to their squadrons with useful, standardized skills and a new appreciation for the cadet program.

Financially, if there is any way we can accelerate the CEAP process this year that would be a huge boost. I'm familiar with the programming process here at the Pentagon so I know the challenge. Along those lines, at least in Virginia the all-season cotton BDUs are not optimal for summer wear. We are doing the best we can to encourage folks to bring the cotton/poly blend BDUs, even if they are used.

Where are you buying them from?  I'm assuming those aren't the Vanguard variety?

[TheSkyHornet]

May be because too often Cadets and Senior Members describe encampments as "Boot Camp"

We've tried fairly hard at our squadron, as Seniors, to not scare away cadets from attending encampment, making sure we note it is not a boot camp, but a more stressful, loud military-esque weekend, but definitely not BCT/Boot.

Some cadets who previously attended, and those going as staff, tried to psych out the cadets with "The First Sergeant this year is mean..." but we did pretty good with prepping our cadets' volume and getting them to snap with their movements, looking sharp and staying focused, all while stressing that it isn't anything close to boot camp nor any hardcore military training. Most of them, before they went to encampment in June for Ohio Wing, had already watched plenty of videos online so they knew a bit what to expect when they got there.

I believe we had 7 cadets go as their first time, and 5 go as staff. That's pretty good consider only 1 active cadet wasn't able to attend because of a prior injury, but she says she definitely plans to go next year.

Our Squadron Commander did a great job really pushing cadets to go, and tried to get their parents to push them further for those who were a bit hesitant. This was my first time seeing my own cadets go to encampment, so I really didn't know a lot about it myself, but some of the more senior cadets and I worked to get the newbies prepared enough mentally, and I'd say it worked out really well. And it sounds like they had a lot of fun!

They already know I'm more tense than any cadet "yelling" at them anyway 

Hopefully next year, only our 1 wounded and a few new faces we have attending our meetings will be going with the rest all on staff.

Personally, I do wish it was mandatory to attend encampment, but as said previously, that may be a bit of a stretch, especially financially for both the cadets, the unit, and CAP overall.

[NIN]

My Sq had 17 cadets at summer encampment last week. 2-3 as cadet staff and the rest as first-timers. 

I have subscribed to Ned's idea for a number of years.  WIWAEC (When I Was An Encampment Commander) and Wing DCP, we had a goal number of "50% of cadets who needed encampment"  for attendance. That number fit OK with our facility capacity versus the number of cadets we had in the wing who needed encampment, usually.

What we did back then was to actually mail out two "invitations" to cadets: the first, usually around December or January, was for cadets who had completed an encampment, inviting them to apply for cadet staff.  (the underlying message being that we didn't want them to attend as a second-year student, to save that space for a cadet who *needed* encampment)  Then we'd send out a 2nd mailing to all the cadets who did not have a prior encampment, inviting them to apply for basic encampment, along about the March time-frame.

It was a pretty straightforward mailing, but definitely geared toward "You need this for your Mitchell," and that sort of angle.

[xray328]

We're going through the first encampment deal ourselves...its expensive.  Even with the curry voucher and encampment assistance.

Encampment assistance (Priority 2 - $125) paid for 1 BDU top, 1 BDU bottom, and 1 hat

Curry Voucher ($100) paid for a blue shirt and pants

Encampment itself is $135.

Our wing requires 3 sets of BDU's

So just in uniform expenses we still had to buy boots, blues shoes, flight cap with badge, belts x 2, two canteens with web belt, a "military style" rain coat (we went with the improved raincoat -$25 on ebay) two other sets of BDU's, patches for 3 sets, paying to sew on the patches ($5/patch x 15 patches), $40 to alter/hem the pants, 8 black shirts, and 8 pairs of boot socks.  Then there's all the extras on the packing list.  Did I mention we have 2 cadets  I'm thankful we could afford it all, but I know there's parents that can't, so maybe money is the reason afterall.

I know it's been said that it's cheap compared to other "camps", and that may be true.  But if we're going to require all of our cadets to go we need to either increase funding or require less gear.

So how do we address that?  Fundraisers maybe?  Can we setup a cadet with a path to earning his way?  And then at that point do they even want to attend?

[Tim Day]

Where are you buying them from?  I'm assuming those aren't the Vanguard variety?

We buy the blend BDUs from surplus stores, thrift stores, etc. We have some seniors who have built relationships with some of these places such that they call us first when they get them in.

[arajca]

We're going through the first encampment deal ourselves...its expensive.  Even with the curry voucher and encampment assistance.

Encampment assistance (Priority 2 - $125) paid for 1 BDU top, 1 BDU bottom, and 1 hat

Curry Voucher ($100) paid for a blue shirt and pants

Encampment itself is $135.

Our wing requires 3 sets of BDU's

So just in uniform expenses we still had to buy boots, blues shoes, flight cap with badge, belts x 2, two canteens with web belt, a "military style" rain coat (we went with the improved raincoat -$25 on ebay) two other sets of BDU's, patches for 3 sets, paying to sew on the patches ($5/patch x 15 patches), $40 to alter/hem the pants, 8 black shirts, and 8 pairs of boot socks.  Then there's all the extras on the packing list.  Did I mention we have 2 cadets  I'm thankful we could afford it all, but I know there's parents that can't, so maybe money is the reason afterall.

I know it's been said that it's cheap compared to other "camps", and that may be true.  But if we're going to require all of our cadets to go we need to either increase funding or require less gear.

So how do we address that?  Fundraisers maybe?  Can we setup a cadet with a path to earning his way?  And then at that point do they even want to attend?

When I got back into CAP, I was looking at over $100 to put patches on 2 field uniform blouses and one field jacket. It was cheaper to buy my own sewing machine and do it myself, which is what I did.

As for require gear and equipment, the vast majority is clothing. I don't really see a way to cut back on that unless you're going to provide laundry services, which would add another cost to encampment. When you look at the budget process for encampments, the first thing that is usually asked "is how can keep costs low?" Think about how much food a teenager will eat in a week (3 meals/day, 8 days - Sat to Sat, is 24 meals). That's a major part of the cost. The next biggest is what is the billeting cost. Some encampments can get free billeting, but not all. Then linens. To maintain standards, you'd have either include a standard linen set or require each participant to bring specific linens (more $$$ out of pocket). Then fuel for vehicles, unless you can get transportation support or everything is in easy marching distance. Encampments are not in the business of making money for the wing. Typically, the only bump in the price that is not cost related is for rounding (if cost comes to $148.53/cadet, the price is usually $150 for convenience).

I know my squadron has sufficient funding to provide each cadet who goes to encampment or other CAP activity with a 50% reimbursement scholarship. To get it, they need to give a 5-10 minute presentation on encampment (or whatever activity they attended). We reimburse 50% of the cost they (or their parents) paid out of pocket. If they got CEAP support or other financial assistance, we only cover 50% of what's left over. I also know few other squadrons have this ability.

[xray328]

I don't think encampment fees themselves are the issue really.  Most parents can swing the $135-$150 if given a few months to prepare.  Maybe the laundry thing is a good idea though if facilities are available.  Assign a laundry detail maybe?  Would raising the cost to $175 still be reasonable if they only had to buy/bring one set of BDU's?  Might do them good to do their own laundry