NCO Program Launched

[AirAux]

Eclipse, You note, "to the unit responsibility of recruiting a large enough pool to always have someone interested."  I have been involved in Cub Scouts, Boy Scouts and CAP and I have never been able to recruit enough people to always have someone that is willing to take on the commitment, liability, and responsibility to accept leadership roles when needed.   We had a heck of a time getting Den leaders/Mothers to help out.  After recruiting drives at the local school at our first meeting, I would announce that if I did not have enough volunteers there would not be Dens for their children.  Do you know that some parents will walk out instead of devoting time to help with the children?  It is a different time than it was 40-50 years ago.  Parents are looking for babysitters or for male role models for their single parent families.  You make it sound like leaders aren't looking for replacements.  Trust me, we are.  In our own squadron, when they decided to dump me as commander, my wife took over, but this meant Wing had to give her up as the Wing Legal Officer.  If not for her, our squadron would ahve been closed down.  CAP is not is a good place right now, too many rules and regulations without due consideration as to possible outcomes.  This NCO program is a perfect example.     

[Eclipse]

Eclipse, You note, "to the unit responsibility of recruiting a large enough pool to always have someone interested."

I would argue (and have) that this is the #1 responsibility of anyone with "Commander" on their business card.
Every other mission fails if this isn't being done.

Do you know that some parents will walk out instead of devoting time to help with the children?  It is a different time than it was 40-50 years ago.  Parents are looking for babysitters or for male role models for their single parent families.

I can't dispute the cultural realities of volunteerism these days - it's very sad, but that doesn't really change the discussion.
If those parents aren't interested in stepping up, then the unit deserves to die, same goes for CAP units.  It's supposed to
be a cooperative "all-hands" effort, not the responsibility of one or two martyrs that choose to carry the whole load themselves.
That's not healthy for the BSA, CAP, or the people involved, and it propagates the babysitter mentality.

In most units, recruiting is nearly non-existent beyond lighting an occasional candle at the local church and "hoping".

As we've discussed before, fully-operational units don't usually have too much issue in this regard, engaged, happy members want their
friends to play, too, and these things tend to be able to be self-sustaining, though they need to be recruiting as well.

But a struggling unit, and I would argue any unit at charter minimums is "struggling" (probably needs to be a factor of 2-3xs the charter
before there's breathing room) needs to focus on manpower above all else. "Warm bodies" won't fix every issue, but it fixes a lot of them.
Recruit, recruit, recruit, with realistic marketing that the unit is in a rebuilding phase, and leave the borrowed HMMVs and airplane from another region at home.

As to the regs, that's an excuse not a valid reason for failure, though it's certainly more indication of the need for people.
The opportunities afforded by CAP come at a cost, and you don't get to play with airplanes, vehicles, radio gear, and large sums of money,
not to mention a lifesaving mission, in a government context and not have forms to complete.

That simply "is", and it's not remarkably different then it was last century.  If that's too much, so be it, but at its core, the administrative side of
running a unit is laughably simple for anyone willing to actually take the time to read a few regs and ask a few questions - human nature leads many people
to prefer expending twice as many calories complaining as asking questions to just get things done.  You can add on the squishy nature of the word "required"
in a CAP context and things get even simpler.

The other piece of this issue is the haphazard, random nature of where and why units are located.   In most cases it's either a historical tie to a resource like
an airport, or because of where the Unit CC lives. Granted, airports are where they are, but there's almost never any effort or thought given to
the local demographics or if there is a critical mass of people interested in the kinds volunteerism opportunities CAP affords, coupled with a reluctance to
move or close units that exist where no one is interested in being a member.

[AirAux]

Concur.

[Eclipse]

In a PM to me from a popular lurker it was pointed out to me that the requirement for Scoutmasters to receive training before leader appointment is
a per-council requirement and not a national standard.

[lordmonar]

To use the military model for CAP.

In the USAF the duty description of any commander at any level is to "Man, Train and Equip the unit to meet assigned missions and duties".

So I agree with Eclipse that a unit commander does have the duty to recruit personnel.

Having said that.....higher echelons have to identify what the unit's missions and duties are.   Not the general three missions of CAP but specific taskings.......We got a CP mission....okay....How many Cadets do I have to serve?  We got an ES mission....okay.....What specialties and how many of each do I need to have?   AE mission....okay....how many teachers do I need to fly each year, how many external AE presentations, etc.?

Recruiting in CAP is nonexistent because no one has put any real goals on the units.  Since there are no goals....then there is no way to track and see if unit is doing a good job or not.   Since there are no goals...there is no way to fail.

The Cadet Quality Unit Award is a general step in the right direction.   We need to do the same for ALL types of CAP units.  And we need for Group and Wing to step up their game as well.  They need to develop the integrated OPLANS, Provide the necessary training for lower level units, and assist lower level units in Manning, Training and Equipping their units to meet operational missions.

[Shuman 14]

Oh nooooo!

I have to "tone it down" with ya now? Hope not! I am having fun when I throw little quibs at ya!

Flyer

It's all good. 

[Shuman 14]

I wonder if the restructuring of the Officer Corps could be something along the lines that was mentioned in the May 2013 CAP Senior Advisory Group minutes:

Wow, I like that.   :clap:

Concur. makes sense and a degree would be a reasonable justification for promotion beyond 1LT.

[Panache]

I wonder if the restructuring of the Officer Corps could be something along the lines that was mentioned in the May 2013 CAP Senior Advisory Group minutes:

Wow, I like that.   :clap:

Concur. makes sense and a degree would be a reasonable justification for promotion beyond 1LT.

Alright, now you're just trolling.   

[Shuman 14]

I wonder if the restructuring of the Officer Corps could be something along the lines that was mentioned in the May 2013 CAP Senior Advisory Group minutes:

Wow, I like that.   :clap:

Concur. makes sense and a degree would be a reasonable justification for promotion beyond 1LT.

Alright, now you're just trolling.   

Who... me?   

[abdsp51]

Concur. makes sense and a degree would be a reasonable justification for promotion beyond 1LT.

And piss off and alienate membership.  Having a degree does not make someone a better officer and would not help improve the corp.

[Flying Pig]

TO think... I managed to run a Squadron and develop it from almost being disbanded to having over 40 members, Region Sq of Distinction, Unit Citation and got the unit a new G1000 airplane two years in a row, and end up with Senior pilot wings and a CD ribbon with 4 clasps all without a degree.  Of course... all my command directives were written in crayon with stick figures.

[bosshawk]

Red crayon and black stick figures.

[Eclipse]

... all my command directives were written in crayon with stick figures.

If you had a degree you'd know to never put anything in writing...

[Майор Хаткевич]

... all my command directives were written in crayon with stick figures.

If you had a degree you'd know to never put anything in writing...

Lawlz.

[Elihu.Lowery]

I wonder if the restructuring of the Officer Corps could be something along the lines that was mentioned in the May 2013 CAP Senior Advisory Group minutes:

Wow, I like that.   :clap:

Concur. makes sense and a degree would be a reasonable justification for promotion beyond 1LT.

Requiring a unpaid volunteer to earn a 4yr college degree would be a bit excessive of a requirement. However, I do believe that requiring completion of the Officer Course before promotion to an officer is a reasonable requirement and one that I would strongly support. 

[sarmed1]

While browsing commissioning requirements I came across this from the USCG for OCS eligibility: 

6.     Education:

        -Have a baccalaureate or higher degree or
        -Receive the ACE recommended score on the five general CLEP exams (i.e. English Composition, Humanities, Natural Science, College     
           Mathematics, Social Science/History) or
       -Have one year of college (30 semester hours or 45 quarter hours) and have completed at least one college-level mathematics course, or
           receive the ACE recommended score on the College Mathematics CLEP exam

I would support something along those lines:  That's about $500 if you want to be a CAP officer and dont have a degree (I would still consider direct commissioning pilots w/o degrees)

mk

[Eclipse]

(I would still consider direct commissioning pilots w/o degrees)

Why?  You break the model day-1 with that, and bring us right back to where we are.

CAP needs to have a culture that allows people to come in off the street and receive all the training and experience they need internally.

[sarmed1]

My first thought was that CAP needs pilots.  My second was trying to stick to the USAF mind set that pilots are O grades.  However I would say that if there is a major overhaul of the officer appointment process; perhaps a needs analysis of how much CAP needs to recruit pilots would be appropriate.  I suspect that its not as bad as one would think.... 

There is no reason the same education requirement for "commissioning" couldn't apply to pilots as well....

mk

[sarmed1]

Personally I am inclined to say (compromise between the degree vs no degree groups) an associates is acceptable for O-1 to O-3 and that 4 year degree is not a requirement until promotion to Major.

....

CAP needs to have a culture that allows people to come in off the street and receive all the training and experience they need internally.

You could go really hog wild with this:  If the thought process is to have a "higher level of educational ability" comparable to RM officers that have a 4 year degree, yet you want to create an internal training program why not create a "CAP University" program.  Perhaps an online "school" that teaches you the fundamentals of the 5 CLEP exams and preps you for the exam.  If you want the real CLEP credit pay the fees and take the tests, if you just want the CAP "commission" just complete the courses.

I would venture to say there needs to be "more" to round out the "credit hours" to be comparable to an associates degree; I am sure similar to the Community College of the Air Force giving credit for basic/tech school/CDC; you could come up with a course/credit comparison to say OBC, SLS and Technician ratings.  Of course there would need to be a change to the CAP PD schedule.....

just brain storming......

mk

[abdsp51]

So make it more difficult and expensive for members to join and progress.  That will surely bring in the numbers for us.  There is no need for us to require degrees for our officer corp in any aspect we are not the real military and do not need the extensive requirements they do for the corp.