NCO Program Launched

[Майор Хаткевич]

+1. We had a required class on how to write research papers. 11 week (last is finals) classes at my college. 10 weeksffor a 10 page paper. Apparently many high schools didn't do junior research papers...

[AirAux]

Unfortunately the high schools are seriously lacking in teaching students how to think critically, how to really study and how to write effectively.  My ten years of college were enjoyable and well spent.  I earn over a $1.00 a minute...  My wife's ten years of college were also worthwhile since she also earns over a $1.00 a minute.  Don't you remember the books covers from the 60's where they compared the lifetime income of a highschool graduate versus one year of college, two years of college, etc.?  It appears it was one of the worthwhile things I learned in highschool, other than the 100 hour civil defense first aid course that they offered.  I learned how to deliver a baby in a bomb shelter on a newspaper.  A technical degree in college may lead to a career, but a liberal arts degree may lead to a lifetime of enjoying life.

[Panache]

One of the main reasons college graduates are paid more than high school graduates is that college is presumed to increase one's ability to think intellectually.

I'm going to have to "think intellectually" about which is funnier, the idea or the phrase.

I wonder if those making more money than you are also laughing. 

Let me ask my friend with a Master's in Medieval History who works in a hotel food court making coffee.

...

No, he says it isn't very funny.

[Storm Chaser]

One of the main reasons college graduates are paid more than high school graduates is that college is presumed to increase one's ability to think intellectually.

I'm going to have to "think intellectually" about which is funnier, the idea or the phrase.

I wonder if those making more money than you are also laughing. 

Let me ask my friend with a Master's in Medieval History who works in a hotel food court making coffee.

...

No, he says it isn't very funny.

My turn... Let me ask my friend who has a Master's in Biomechanics, my other friend who has a Bachaler's in English Literature with a Minor in Computer Science, a CAP member I know who has a Bachelor's in Chemical Engineering, a co-worker who has a Master's in Mechanical Engineering and, wait for it..., my buddy who is a Lt Col and pilot in the Air Force, who happens to have Bachelor's and a Master's degrees in History. They're all well employed and find your comments "very funny".

[Panache]

My turn... [snip]

Bill Gates, Marc Rich, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Lawrence Ellison, Ted Turner...

...we can go back and forth all day.  Is it really worth it?

[Storm Chaser]

My turn... [snip]

Bill Gates, Marc Rich, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Lawrence Ellison, Ted Turner...

...we can go back and forth all day.  Is it really worth it?

Sure, a few very smart and talented individuals, many who did go to college, but didn't finish, became billionaires. Unfortunately, they're the minority; they had a brilliant idea and started a successful business.

For the vast majority of us, we need to acquire marketable skills through college, technical schools, certifications and experience. The job market is so competitive these days that unless you can stand out from the pack, it's hard to get a good paying and rewarding job. Not many going straight from high school to the job market have the necessarily skills or experience to land a good job.

[Panache]

My turn... [snip]

Bill Gates, Marc Rich, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, Lawrence Ellison, Ted Turner...

...we can go back and forth all day.  Is it really worth it?

Sure, a few very smart and talented individuals, many who did go to college, but didn't finish, became billionaires. Unfortunately, they're the minority; they had a brilliant idea and started a successful business.

For the vast majority of us, we need to acquire marketable skills through college, technical schools, certifications and experience. The job market is so competitive these days that unless you can stand out from the pack, it's hard to get a good paying and rewarding job. Not many going straight from high school to the job market have the necessarily skills or experience to land a good job.

I think it's clear nobody is going to change anybody's mind on this topic, and if we keep it up we're going to get the thread locked.

Truce?

[Eclipse]

For the vast majority of us, we need to acquire marketable skills through college, technical schools, certifications and experience.

The job market is so competitive these days that unless you can stand out from the pack, it's hard to get a good paying and rewarding job. Not many going straight from high school to the job market have the necessarily skills or experience to land a good job.

You literally just back-pedaled all over your own point(s) from this entire thread.  Yes, there are any number of ways to become "educated" and marketable and college is only one of them.

The only thing important is what is in bold above.  The rest is the path.

[Storm Chaser]

For the vast majority of us, we need to acquire marketable skills through college, technical schools, certifications and experience.

The job market is so competitive these days that unless you can stand out from the pack, it's hard to get a good paying and rewarding job. Not many going straight from high school to the job market have the necessarily skills or experience to land a good job.

You literally just back-pedaled all over your own point(s) from this entire thread.  Yes, there are any number of ways to become "educated" and marketable and college is only one of them.

The only thing important is what is in bold above.  The rest is the path.

Actually, I didn't. If you read all of my posts you will see that I never said that college was the only way or even the best way. You and a few others here have been trying to trivialize college education and I've been defending it; not the same thing.

[Eclipse]

Actually, to be fair, I think we have been marginalizing it in regards to its specific value to CAP members.

[Storm Chaser]

Actually, to be fair, I think we have been marginalizing it in regards to its specific value to CAP members.

If that was true, I wouldn't have been posting about it since I'm also against CAP requiring a college degree, except for specialties needing one (e.g. legal officer).

[Eclipse]

Actually, to be fair, I think we have been marginalizing it in regards to its specific value to CAP members.

If that was true, I wouldn't have been posting about it since I'm also against CAP requiring a college degree, except for specialties needing one (e.g. legal officer).

The only context that is relevent to this discussion is CAP.  Who cares if people trivialize or marginalize college degrees external to CAP?

[JeffDG]

Unfortunately the high schools are seriously lacking in teaching students how to think critically, how to really study and how to write effectively.  My ten years of college were enjoyable and well spent.  I earn over a $1.00 a minute...  My wife's ten years of college were also worthwhile since she also earns over a $1.00 a minute.  Don't you remember the books covers from the 60's where they compared the lifetime income of a highschool graduate versus one year of college, two years of college, etc.?  It appears it was one of the worthwhile things I learned in highschool, other than the 100 hour civil defense first aid course that they offered.  I learned how to deliver a baby in a bomb shelter on a newspaper.  A technical degree in college may lead to a career, but a liberal arts degree may lead to a lifetime of enjoying life.

You need to find a new field

Good IT folks consider $1/minute to be entry level, no degree required.  No need to waste 10 years of earning (or approximately $1.2m) plus going six figures into debt for that.

[AirAux]

Didn't waste 10 years, loved every minute of it.  If I ever retire, I will either teach on campus of take classes just to keep in touch with the youth.  Maybe I forgot to mention my healthcare plan, my vacation allowance, my lucrative 401K, my pension, and my job security for life??  Had a big IT buddy that lost it all when the dot com fiasco crashed..  I am an advocate for higher education.  To learn a marketable skill is admirable, jobs come and go, but to learn something that enriches your life forever is priceless.  Stay thirsty my friend.. 

[Eclipse]

Good IT folks consider $1/minute to be entry level, no degree required.  No need to waste 10 years of earning (or approximately $1.2m) plus going six figures into debt for that.

Yep, though to be fair, that's more on the consulting side, which is really where you want to be as long as you can accept the possible instability.

[Eclipse]

Maybe I forgot to mention my healthcare plan, my vacation allowance, my lucrative 401K, my pension, and my job security for life?? 

You are likely the last generation who will see these benefits on a large scale.

"Job security for life?"  That's considered a "problem to be fixed" in most sectors, private and public.

[Storm Chaser]

Actually, to be fair, I think we have been marginalizing it in regards to its specific value to CAP members.

If that was true, I wouldn't have been posting about it since I'm also against CAP requiring a college degree, except for specialties needing one (e.g. legal officer).

The only context that is relevent to this discussion is CAP.  Who cares if people trivialize or marginalize college degrees external to CAP?

In other words, who cares about our core values? I'm glad you don't spend much time working with cadets anymore.

[Eclipse]

In other words, who cares about our core values?

What? Where'd you get that?

[DennisH]

I believe that would fall under "Respect" something a number of folks seem to pay lip service.

[Eclipse]

Invoking "Core Values" in an otherwise civilized discussion is the CAP equivalence of Godwin's Law.

There's nothing in this discussion, nor in any of my positions that are related to the issues involved that crosses "core values" in any way.

I mean you wouldn't assert that your opinion regarding higher education holds more weight than anyone else's in this context, or that someone
who disagrees would be violating "core values", right?  You can make the argument that CAP crosses into the "career counseling" area
with AE and exposure to military life, but beyond presenting the options and requirements for various career fields, which are going to
be decidedly heavy into advanced education, no opinion should be expressed either way.

As to the adult members, it's no one's business since CAP isn't going to be writing checks for credits anytime soon.

If you think a college education is important for yourself or your family, so be it, best of luck.  In a CAP context the only thing that matters
is what you bring to the table, not where yo got the tools.  College is only one path, and not necessarily the best one.