NCO Program Launched

[Shuman 14]

but the writing is on the wall, the future will most likely be an NCO driven organization, so why not have that support chain in place now, then try to build it later?

You literally have no idea what you are talking about, have no understanding of the landscape, and no skin in the game.

CAP cashed my check, there's skin in the game. 

Regardless it doesn't invalidate my question.

Thank you for your donation. Here is your PATRON membership card. Have a nice day!

Your welcome. Now I'm a paying troll. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

but the writing is on the wall, the future will most likely be an NCO driven organization, so why not have that support chain in place now, then try to build it later?

You literally have no idea what you are talking about, have no understanding of the landscape, and no skin in the game.

CAP cashed my check, there's skin in the game. 

Regardless it doesn't invalidate my question.

Thank you for your donation. Here is your PATRON membership card. Have a nice day!

Your welcome. Now I'm a paying troll. 

Donating troll. Full member dues are higher, our time spent is higher, direct and indirect $$$ is higher as well. We have buy in. Patrons, off the street don't.

[SarDragon]

Why are we suddenly arguing about first shirts?

The paper that was linked clearly stated that we don't get first shirts...

That's what started it... I asked why no First Sergeants.

You asked why. We told you.

Don't keep peeing in our Post Toasties trying to convince us otherwise without an adequate knowledge of how we do things here in CAP. The Army way is not the AF way, is not the CAP way. Until you can give up the Army think for a while, you're just wasting everyone's time.

[Storm Chaser]

@ shuman14

If you have such obvious interest in CAP, why don't you find a unit and become a full, active member? It's easy to offer opinions from the sidelines, but what we really need is people who are willing to work to make CAP better.

[Flying Pig]

I see the logic of limiting the number of SMSgts and CMSgts, but I don't see the need to limit MSgts. If NHQ doesn't want too many of them, then why not just make the grade harder to attain?

As it stands now, it's quite simple. Move your MSgt buddy to unit B, while Unit A has TSgt promote. move MSgt back to unit A when done. Repeat for unit B moving guys to unit A to get the "at time of promotion" slot open.

But what happens when unit B is 2 hours away?   I drove 45 min to get to my unit. The next closest would have been a 4 hour round trip.

[Luis R. Ramos]

He thinks he is at the same level that Gen Carr is...

Flyer

[Private Investigator]

... but then to totally ignore all of the E-4's and below that served proudly and are just as proud of their rank as the NCO's are.  Where is the "Respect" for them??  I predict this is going nowhere..

Great point here. In CAP we can have E-4 = Sgt since E-5 is a SSgt. But I know lots of people have several honorably and discharged at E-3. I had several former serviceman who join CAP who were E-1 or E-2 when they were discharged for health reasons during or after boot camp.

[Private Investigator]

He thinks he is at the same level that Gen Carr is...

Flyer

I am guessing 25% of our membership does too and to balance that out, SWAG 25% does not know who Gen Carr is ... 

[Flying Pig]

Is General Carr something made by General Motors?     OH MAN!  Wheeeeeeww :clap:.....  thank you thank you.... Ill be performing all night. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

I see the logic of limiting the number of SMSgts and CMSgts, but I don't see the need to limit MSgts. If NHQ doesn't want too many of them, then why not just make the grade harder to attain?

As it stands now, it's quite simple. Move your MSgt buddy to unit B, while Unit A has TSgt promote. move MSgt back to unit A when done. Repeat for unit B moving guys to unit A to get the "at time of promotion" slot open.

But what happens when unit B is 2 hours away?   I drove 45 min to get to my unit. The next closest would have been a 4 hour round trip.

They don't have to go too meetings there, or at all while someone else gets a promo. But as has been pointed out there is that magic tenure.

[Eclipse]

All the more reason manning tables don't work in a depopulated CAP with 1/2 the charters and 2/3rds the membership it had the last time they were used.

[ZigZag911]

Squadrons most likely will not have enough CAP NCOs to justify a first sergeant, at least early on in this program...perhaps it ought to be considered as an option for wings using a group structure, as a group level position.

[Eclipse]

Squadrons most likely will not have enough CAP NCOs to justify a first sergeant, at least early on in this program...perhaps it ought to be considered as an option for wings using a group structure, as a group level position.

It'll never work - no place for the diamond.

[SARDOC]

Squadrons most likely will not have enough CAP NCOs to justify a first sergeant, at least early on in this program...perhaps it ought to be considered as an option for wings using a group structure, as a group level position.

It'll never work - no place for the diamond.

I'd wait until this program is rolled out and in effect for a while to see if the need for a diamond or a star develops.  I don't want to cast judgment before I see how the program matures.  Otherwise I'd agree that based on the limited information we have there is no place for it, no point putting the cart before the horse.

[Eclipse]

I just meant on the patch - which appears to be the focus of this program.

[SARDOC]

I just meant on the patch - which appears to be the focus of this program.

Agreed

[Shuman 14]

@ shuman14

If you have such obvious interest in CAP, why don't you find a unit and become a full, active member? It's easy to offer opinions from the sidelines, but what we really need is people who are willing to work to make CAP better.

Oh I suspect I will, life's just been a little busy these last few months.

I went from being an unemployed Graduate student to working fulltime as a VA Police Officer. I finished finished my Masters and now I have the VA LETC class in January.

Plus my Army Reserve unit is pushing me to attend ILE Phase II & III this year. So until the end of summer FY 14, my free time to volunteer is minimum.

[Shuman 14]

He thinks he is at the same level that Gen Carr is...

Flyer

No, but as a former NCO, like MG Carr, I think I understand his motives.

Maybe you're all right about First Sergeants, maybe there isn't a need... now. There may be in the future.

As an outsider looking in, I can see issues with the organization, which I'm afraid many of you in the CAPTalk Sunshine Brigade are too close to to see, or (more likely) you are part of the problem itself.

I've never seen a bunch of greater naysayers then I have seen since coming to CAPTalk. Phrases like: "That will never happen in CAP" or "That's the way we've always done it" are all I hear here. Any suggestion for change, regardless from inside or outside of CAP, is treated like blasphemy! I've never seen a group more resistant to institutional change than you. (Except maybe the Palestinians.)

MG Carr is going to turn CAP into an NCO driven organization and downsize the Officer Corps, which I believe the USAF wholeheartedly supports.

I would make that steak dinner bet that a degree requirement for future officer promotion beyond 1LT, just like the Military, is coming. 

Gentlemen and Ladies!!! You are truly living in interesting times in CAP, I wish you all the very best of luck in it.

[Shuman 14]

Is General Carr something made by General Motors?     OH MAN!  Wheeeeeeww :clap:.....  thank you thank you.... Ill be performing all night.

Now that's funny! 

[Shuman 14]

Squadrons most likely will not have enough CAP NCOs to justify a first sergeant, at least early on in this program...perhaps it ought to be considered as an option for wings using a group structure, as a group level position.

A reasonable suggestion, as time goes on.