NCO Program Launched

[Private Investigator]

So if a MSgt decided to stick around for 15 years, nobody can promote above TSgt in the Sq?

Unfortunately, that is the case.

Manning tables without an "up or out" culture will degrade back to the circular mess we have on the officer side somewhere between 5-10 years.

The only way they work long-term is if the higher grades are temporary or you restrict people from returning to a unit after serving higher.

They also don't account for member who walk in the door as Chiefs but have no interest in anything above a unit.

I knew of a Squadron that two retired USAF CMSgts and they both wore their stripes. One was more admin and the other was the ops guy. It was functional, but the ppt appears to be a Chinese Fire Drill.   

[Private Investigator]

Well, the allowable table killed any hope of this being a step forward. If this is offical, my local unit will lose people over this. The unit has a retired army e8, an AF e7 and a retired army e9. So, which one does the commander get to demote?

Shame...

A Squadron currently has multiple Lt Cols but it can not have multiple Staff NCOs? 

[Panache]

Well, the allowable table killed any hope of this being a step forward. If this is offical, my local unit will lose people over this. The unit has a retired army e8, an AF e7 and a retired army e9. So, which one does the commander get to demote?

Shame...

A Squadron currently has multiple Lt Cols but it can not have multiple Staff NCOs? 

We'll be reading blog posts from the National CC, CMSgt Carr...

[ZigZag911]

"CAP" in the stripes looks ridiculous...there ought to be some other way to differentiate from AF NCOs, assuming the prop replacing star isn't enough.

I like the limitations on numbers of Seniors & Chief MSgts, but question 'one MSgt per squadron"...that ought to be more tied to professional development training level as well as staff role...alternatively, perhaps higher HQ staffs could have multiple MSgts.

My big question is why NCOs are following the exact same PD program as officers. Some overlap, perhaps through Level II, is inevitable, but I would think that Level III and beyond would be where things branch off.

I'm still not completely convinced we need this.

[Storm Chaser]

"CAP" in the stripes looks ridiculous...there ought to be some other way to differentiate from AF NCOs, assuming the prop replacing star isn't enough.

Maybe they should be gray to match the officer's epaulet slides (which also have "CAP" above the grade insignia).

[Eclipse]

My big question is why NCOs are following the exact same PD program as officers. Some overlap, perhaps through Level II, is inevitable, but I would think that Level III and beyond would be where things branch off.

Branch off where?

There's only one PD track because we have only one PD path.

CAP has a specific set of missions, and ground-level training of adult members in basic life and military skills like enlisted personnel isn't on that list.
We expect adult members to come to the table already mostly baked and to get moving on the "real" work of the tri-prop mission.  We also expect
adult members to handle their own care and feeding.

It's interesting to note that beyond the same type of rhetoric you see in the CAC pamphlet, there is no mention of what these NCOs would actually do that would be
any different then everyone else.

[Flying Pig]

"Sergeant, the other officers and I will be at the after party at McDonalds.  I'm sure you understand.  if you could square things away here and close up I would appreciate it".   

[Flying Pig]

........oh,  I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood you when you said "Don't call me Sir, I work for a living?"

[sarmed1]

A Squadron currently has multiple Lt Cols but it can not have multiple Staff NCOs? 

This was pretty much my thought when I read that.  If they are going to limit one I would like to hope that they will also limit the other.

Ideally I would think that 3 or 4 masters per unit would be acceptable for most units; 1 for ops, 1 for admin, 1 as First Sgt,  1 additional for composite units specific to cadet programs (leadership) or otherwise a matrix of allowable senior NCO's based on number of unit members.   Of course the same would hold true for officer side then, unlimited LT's and Captains but restrictions on the number of Maj's and up.

mk

[Майор Хаткевич]

........oh,  I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood you when you said "Don't call me Sir, I work for a living?"

Bwahaha

[Storm Chaser]

I see the logic of limiting the number of SMSgts and CMSgts, but I don't see the need to limit MSgts. If NHQ doesn't want too many of them, then why not just make the grade harder to attain?

[Майор Хаткевич]

I see the logic of limiting the number of SMSgts and CMSgts, but I don't see the need to limit MSgts. If NHQ doesn't want too many of them, then why not just make the grade harder to attain?

As it stands now, it's quite simple. Move your MSgt buddy to unit B, while Unit A has TSgt promote. move MSgt back to unit A when done. Repeat for unit B moving guys to unit A to get the "at time of promotion" slot open.

[Al Sayre]

How about a point based promotion system based on evaluations, time in grade, time in service, awards and a written test in their area of technical expertise?

[Papabird]

I see the logic of limiting the number of SMSgts and CMSgts, but I don't see the need to limit MSgts. If NHQ doesn't want too many of them, then why not just make the grade harder to attain?

As it stands now, it's quite simple. Move your MSgt buddy to unit B, while Unit A has TSgt promote. move MSgt back to unit A when done. Repeat for unit B moving guys to unit A to get the "at time of promotion" slot open.

I see this happening a lot if the system as posted goes in.  TSgt's going to Group HQ to get their 6th stripe, then right back down after a "successful" tour of 3-6 months.  Even though they are at Group, they still would go to their local meetings, etc.  Just "off the books".

Bleh.  The NCO idea had such possibilities.

[Tim Medeiros]

I see the logic of limiting the number of SMSgts and CMSgts, but I don't see the need to limit MSgts. If NHQ doesn't want too many of them, then why not just make the grade harder to attain?

As it stands now, it's quite simple. Move your MSgt buddy to unit B, while Unit A has TSgt promote. move MSgt back to unit A when done. Repeat for unit B moving guys to unit A to get the "at time of promotion" slot open.

I see this happening a lot if the system as posted goes in.  TSgt's going to Group HQ to get their 6th stripe, then right back down after a "successful" tour of 3-6 months.  Even though they are at Group, they still would go to their local meetings, etc.  Just "off the books".

Bleh.  The NCO idea had such possibilities.

My interpretation of the "minimum tenure" column says that timeline would be prevented.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I see the logic of limiting the number of SMSgts and CMSgts, but I don't see the need to limit MSgts. If NHQ doesn't want too many of them, then why not just make the grade harder to attain?

As it stands now, it's quite simple. Move your MSgt buddy to unit B, while Unit A has TSgt promote. move MSgt back to unit A when done. Repeat for unit B moving guys to unit A to get the "at time of promotion" slot open.

I see this happening a lot if the system as posted goes in.  TSgt's going to Group HQ to get their 6th stripe, then right back down after a "successful" tour of 3-6 months.  Even though they are at Group, they still would go to their local meetings, etc.  Just "off the books".

Bleh.  The NCO idea had such possibilities.

My interpretation of the "minimum tenure" column says that timeline would be prevented.

I think they mean TIG.

[Papabird]

Bleh.  The NCO idea had such possibilities.

My interpretation of the "minimum tenure" column says that timeline would be prevented.

Depends on if tenure is exclusive and is tied to assignment in eServices.  What is the definition is tenure here?  I know people who are double booked in squadron & group.

[Майор Хаткевич]

And since PD is the same...they basically are capping most at "1st Lt", making Captain level grade almost impossible for most.

[RogueLeader]

And since PD is the same...they basically are capping most at "1st Lt", making Captain level grade almost impossible for most.

from what I saw, it looked like Captain is equivalent to TSgt, as a Level 2 PD progression. 

[Panache]

My suggestion.  An update to usafaux2004's previous work...